Octopus energy company. Anyone use 'em?

[pingu393]

Zoon said:

I'm trying to work out if Agile would be cheaper than Intelligent, the figures seem very close.

I think Agile would do my head in. Here are the Agile prices for today...



https://agileprices.co.uk/?region=B

Your comparision is with Intelligent (10p from 2330-0530 and 41.11 for the rest). If you can charge a battery to run the house from 0530 - 2330, then Intelligent will be cheaper. Otherwise, it depends on when you need the power, and how much. You need to start with your power demand curve, and work back from there.

[KTF]

Download octopus compare, input your details and it will work out the cost difference for you.

[Zoon]

KTF said:

Download octopus compare, input your details and it will work out the cost difference for you.

Cheers will do this later.

[Zoon]

Did the comparison last night and Agile is £50 a month cheaper for me than Intelligent.

[KTF]

Agile is good if you can shift the load to the off peak hours but if you do a lot of peak time cooking, etc then that quickly negates any saving and other options are better value.

Its easy enough to switch to it if you give them a call and you can switch away if it doesnt work for you. Plus you can keep track of the costs in the various comparison apps as well.

[Zoon]

KTF said:

Agile is good if you can shift the load to the off peak hours but if you do a lot of peak time cooking, etc then that quickly negates any saving and other options are better value.

Its easy enough to switch to it if you give them a call and you can switch away if it doesnt work for you. Plus you can keep track of the costs in the various comparison apps as well.

That was based on this month's actual usage and I can use the EV.Energy app to charge the car when rates are lowest, so should be OK.

[KTF]

Apparently there might be another saving session between 1830-1930 tomorrow like last time. Due to be confirmed this afternoon.

Same deal as before if so then

Minimum energy consumption 1330-1430
Maximum energy consumption 1430-1730
Irrelevant energy consumption 1730-1830
Minimum energy consumption 1830-1930 (saving session)

[Silverage]

KTF said:

Apparently there might be another saving session between 1830-1930 tomorrow like last time. Due to be confirmed this afternoon.

Same deal as before if so then

Minimum energy consumption 1330-1430
Maximum energy consumption 1430-1730
Irrelevant energy consumption 1730-1830
Minimum energy consumption 1830-1930 (saving session)

It’s just popped up on my dashboard, so it’s official. Times as above. £3.00 per unit saved too!

[heisthegaffer]

heisthegaffer said:

I've got them coming out weds to make the smart meters work...3rd time lucky!

Might call them to talk about the tracker tariff. I'm on flexible but haven't seen any movement in costs unless I'm misunderstanding it?

The engineer came round today, electric reading works but gas will take a day or 2.

Does the cost detailed Inc standing charge?

[KTF]

heisthegaffer said:

The engineer came round today, electric reading works but gas will take a day or 2.

Does the cost detailed Inc standing charge?

Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Depends on the mood of the IHD I find.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

KTF said:

MinimumIrrelevant energy consumption 1330-1430
Maximum energy consumption 1430-1730
Irrelevant energy consumption 1730-1830
Minimum energy consumption 1830-1930 (saving session)

Fixed that for you.

I don’t know where this erroneous theory came from that you have to minimise usage during that 1 hour period, but if you read any of the detailed online descriptions of the calculation methodology you’ll see that it has no basis in fact.

(Well actually I do know where it came from. Somebody posted it earlier in this thread, and everyone else has blindly believed it without actually checking credible sources.)

What matters is maximising your usage during the 14:30-17:30 period, then minimising usage during 18:30-19:30. Anything else is irrelevant.

Credible sources describing the calculation in detail, neither saying anything about the 1-hour period before the 3-hour “on-day adjustment” period…

https://hugoenergyapp.co.uk/national-grid-eso-cash...

https://kb.loop.homes/turn-down-and-save-how-are-m...

[Mark-ri571]

Shame we can’t see how much we saved during the last session as yet. Unfortunately I am not at home tomorrow afternoon so won’t be able to game the system.

[heisthegaffer]

KTF said:

heisthegaffer said:

The engineer came round today, electric reading works but gas will take a day or 2.

Does the cost detailed Inc standing charge?

Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Depends on the mood of the IHD I find.

Cheers.

Oddly, it's recording today as yesterday on the app and a slightly different reading. Are there manual settings I need to sort?

[KTF]

Unless you need real time data, one of the many third party apps will be more accurate than the IHD.

It’s very sensitive to tariff changes. Works fine on flexible but useless on variable time based tariff.

[Trustmeimadoctor]

heisthegaffer said:

KTF said:

heisthegaffer said:

The engineer came round today, electric reading works but gas will take a day or 2.

Does the cost detailed Inc standing charge?

Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Depends on the mood of the IHD I find.

Cheers.

Oddly, it's recording today as yesterday on the app and a slightly different reading. Are there manual settings I need to sort?

The ihd is pointless

[Armchair_Expert]

Still waiting last weeks results.

Just opted in to tmrws - again based on this thread - no notification. I don't even look at the app anymore just rely on this thread.

Juicing the EV overnight and taking tumble drier out of retirement tmrw until 1730, Can't wait.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

Armchair_Expert said:

Juicing the EV overnight

That won’t make any difference at all.

You need to charge your EV between 14:30 and 17:30 today.

[fuzzymonkey]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

That won’t make any difference at all.

You need to charge your EV between 14:30 and 17:30 today.

So turn everything on between 1430-1730 today to use as much energy?

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

fuzzymonkey said:

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

That won’t make any difference at all.

You need to charge your EV between 14:30 and 17:30 today.

So turn everything on between 1430-1730 today to use as much energy?

That’s right, although it’s a moot point* whether it’s actually worth “wasting” power - ideally it’s best to plan your usage so that you shift things that you would do anyway. So postpone the dishwasher from the night before, or do a washing machine load that you were planning to do anyway.

Essentially, the algorithm looks at your usage during the last 10 working days, excluding any days that were also grid event days. Over those 10 days, it calculates two averages:

• average usage during the event period itself,
• average usage during a 3 hour period beginning 4 hours before the start of the event period.

Note that the hour immediately preceding the event itself is ignored, and is irrelevant. Also, anything before the start of the 3 hour period is also ignored.

The first average is referred to as your baseline.

The second average is compared against your actual usage during the same 3 hour period on the day itself. If you use more than that average then your baseline figure is increased accordingly. Likewise, if you use less than average then your baseline is decreased.

Finally, your actual use on the day during the event period is compared against your adjusted baseline, to work out how much (if any) you reduced by.

So it follows that having a higher adjusted baseline results in a better comparison of your usage reduction, and this is why it’s best to pack as much usage as possible into that 3 hour period, so that you use more than usual and your adjusted baseline is increased. Conversely, using less than average in that 3 hour period is bad, because it results in your adjusted baseline being reduced, which hurts the final comparison.

The intention of the algorithm is to take account of weather conditions, so if it’s a particularly cold day and you rely on electric heating you won’t be unfairly penalised compared to those who don’t have electric heating. But obviously people will play the game once they discover what the rules are.

One absurdity of the current algorithm is that if you reduce your usage for the whole day, you might score nothing because your usage during the 3 hour period will be below average, resulting in your adjusted baseline being worse!

I predict they’ll change the algorithm for next winter.

Edited to add:

* In order to increase your adjusted baseline by 1 kWh you’d have to use 3 kWh during the 3 hour period on the day. That would cost about 3 x 35p = £1.05. With Loop, I earn £2.50 per kWh reduction, so I suppose in purely monetary terms it is worth wasting energy, but that’s a step I don’t feel comfortable with for environmental reasons.

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 23 March 09:15

[pingu393]

fuzzymonkey said:

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

That won’t make any difference at all.

You need to charge your EV between 14:30 and 17:30 today.

So turn everything on between 1430-1730 today to use as much energy?

It goes against the grain, but I've switched off the solar, and hope to have drained the battery to 20% by 1430, ready for the big switch on.

I was playing about with the settings this morning and couldn't find a way to consume from the battery and send solar to the grid. I did, however, find out that the battery can draw 5KW from the grid. It cost me 9p to learn that little nugget .

Mrs Pingu is hoping to get two sets of washing and one set of drying done as well. If the battery gets to 100% before the sun gets too dull, we may even be able to export something as well.

Going for broke .