Informal Planning Advice prior to Complaint?

[youngsyr]

Minor update from the OP:

Since I originally posted the thread, the wife and I have been umming and arrghing about whether to shop the neighbours and make our already strained relationship really ugly. However, we noticed (couldn't really miss it!) a local estate agents car on their drive yesterday for an hour or so and again this morning, with the garden being really tidied up and their cars being moved off the drive in between - classic staging for photos behaviour.

We've learned from previous conversations that the neighbours are serial developers - they renovated their last place and sold up pretty quickly to move next door and it now looks like they're repeating the process.
This explains some of their decisions (no safety rail around the decking with them having a toddler, etc).

In any case, it looks like the decision has been made very easy for us - it's bad enough erecting that monstrosity for their own use, but as they're only doing it for profit there is no relationship to protect and we'll be shopping them shortly.

Watch this space...

[Mark Benson]

youngsyr said:

Minor update from the OP:

In any case, it looks like the decision has been made very easy for us - it's bad enough erecting that monstrosity for their own use, but as they're only doing it for profit there is no relationship to protect and we'll be shopping them shortly.

Watch this space...

I don't usually favour the 'shop them' route, preferring to exhaust all other possibilities first, but in this case get that complaint in asap.

Some people don't deserve consideration.

[JQ]

Once the advert is up, you may wish to drop an email to the Estate Agent stating that you are in dispute with their client over the decking and they should be making any potential purchasers aware.

I'd also make you neighbours aware, preferably in writing, that you are making a complaint to the local planning dept.

The above should create a few issues for them which may force them to resolve before they can sell.

[Lazermilk]

Agree with the above ideas, they obviously didn't care about impact on you when developing it and just seen the £ signs, make it as difficult as possible for them so they think twice next time

[youngsyr]

JQ said:

Once the advert is up, you may wish to drop an email to the Estate Agent stating that you are in dispute with their client over the decking and they should be making any potential purchasers aware.

I'd also make you neighbours aware, preferably in writing, that you are making a complaint to the local planning dept.

The above should create a few issues for them which may force them to resolve before they can sell.

The email to the estate agent is a good call, thanks! However, I'm in two minds whether to notify the neighbours directly.

Firstly, they've shown next to no consideration to us, so I feel no obligation to be respectful/decent to them.

Secondly, they'll find out soon enough anyway from the planning department (assuming they don't dismiss our complaint outright) and it will be blindingly obvious who has complained, even if the planning department don['t let slip (which I understand they are not allowed to do).

Finally, I'm slightly concerned about the fall out from the complaint. It's obviously going to cost the neighbours a considerable sum (I'd expect in the low single digit thousands) and perhaps it's my paranoia, but the thought of petty revenge by damage to our property/cars rears its ugly head.

So, essentially, we gain nothing by telling them.

Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 22 August 14:36

[Lazermilk]

Get some CCTV up to cover the main areas just in case if you are that worried, its cheap these days.

IP cams have come along way and very easy to setup yourself.

[Mark Benson]

youngsyr said:

So, essentially, we gain nothing by telling them.

Plus, they aren't neighbours you'll have to get along with for any period of time anyway. They're developers, making a living from buying and selling houses so one would expect them to behave a tad more professionally than they have been, wouldn't one?

In this instance, you owe them nothing and wouldn't benefit from showing any more consideration than you already have done.

[JQ]

youngsyr said:

JQ said:

Once the advert is up, you may wish to drop an email to the Estate Agent stating that you are in dispute with their client over the decking and they should be making any potential purchasers aware.

I'd also make you neighbours aware, preferably in writing, that you are making a complaint to the local planning dept.

The above should create a few issues for them which may force them to resolve before they can sell.

The email to the estate agent is a good call, thanks! However, I'm in two minds whether to notify the neighbours directly.

Firstly, they've shown next to no consideration to us, so I feel no obligation to be respectful/decent to them.

Secondly, they'll find out soon enough anyway from the planning department (assuming they don't dismiss our complaint outright) and it will be blindingly obvious who has complained, even if the planning department don['t let slip (which I understand they are not allowed to do).

Finally, I'm slightly concerned about the fall out from the complaint. It's obviously going to cost the neighbours a considerable sum (I'd expect in the low single digit thousands) and perhaps it's my paranoia, but the thought of petty revenge by damage to our property/cars rears its ugly head.

So, essentially, we gain nothing by telling them.

Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 22 August 14:36

You need to inform the neighbour, as they need to be aware that you are in dispute with them and that you will be putting in a complaint about the decking to the planning dept. They are under a legal obligation to disclose any neighbourly disputes to the purchaser, by not informing them of the dispute you will be playing into their hands. They can't disclose something they don't know anything about.

This is your leverage, and I suspect you will be get a far swifter resolution to this issue by potentially putting off purchasers than you will going through with a planning complaint. Your neighbours may have their house sold before the case even gets assigned to a Planning Officer.

As for vandalism, if they've got an ounce of intelligence they wouldn't want any police involvement when trying to sell a house - again they would be under an obligation to disclose this to any potential purchaser.

Them selling the house has put you in a far stronger position to get this sorted, but you need to directly involve the neighbour to be able to use it as leverage. I'd also be telling all the other neighbours that you're in dispute with them so that there are witnesses, thereby applying further pressure to the idiot neighbour as they will realise they can't just ignore it.

[Maxf]

If you want to try and be somewhat anonymous, wait until they get a few viewings and then speak to the planners - it could quite easily have been a potential buyer doing their DD. Or, tell the neighbours that you need the decking taking down or you'll need to speak to the planners, which will be a live dispute and therefore make their sale more difficult - I suppose it depends on whether you want to risk an argument or not.

[dickymint]

youngsyr said:

JQ said:

Once the advert is up, you may wish to drop an email to the Estate Agent stating that you are in dispute with their client over the decking and they should be making any potential purchasers aware.

I'd also make you neighbours aware, preferably in writing, that you are making a complaint to the local planning dept.

The above should create a few issues for them which may force them to resolve before they can sell.

The email to the estate agent is a good call, thanks! However, I'm in two minds whether to notify the neighbours directly.

Firstly, they've shown next to no consideration to us, so I feel no obligation to be respectful/decent to them.

Secondly, they'll find out soon enough anyway from the planning department (assuming they don't dismiss our complaint outright) and it will be blindingly obvious who has complained, even if the planning department don['t let slip (which I understand they are not allowed to do).

Finally, I'm slightly concerned about the fall out from the complaint. It's obviously going to cost the neighbours a considerable sum (I'd expect in the low single digit thousands) and perhaps it's my paranoia, but the thought of petty revenge by damage to our property/cars rears its ugly head.

So, essentially, we gain nothing by telling them.

Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 22 August 14:36

I think your problem is - if it doesn't cost your existing neighbour "a considerable sum", either by rectifying it themselves or by having to drop their selling price, then your back in the same boat with your new neighbours who potentially will not know anything about it?

Seems simple to me - ps off the tt next door, ps off what hopefully could be very good friends or put up with a birds eye view of a balcony that overlooks your privacy!!

At the end of the day planning will be on your side and it will have to be lowered and somebody will be pissed off - you choose who.

[dmsims]

Why would any normal person be pissed off ?

[youngsyr]

JQ said:

youngsyr said:

JQ said:

Once the advert is up, you may wish to drop an email to the Estate Agent stating that you are in dispute with their client over the decking and they should be making any potential purchasers aware.

I'd also make you neighbours aware, preferably in writing, that you are making a complaint to the local planning dept.

The above should create a few issues for them which may force them to resolve before they can sell.

The email to the estate agent is a good call, thanks! However, I'm in two minds whether to notify the neighbours directly.

Firstly, they've shown next to no consideration to us, so I feel no obligation to be respectful/decent to them.

Secondly, they'll find out soon enough anyway from the planning department (assuming they don't dismiss our complaint outright) and it will be blindingly obvious who has complained, even if the planning department don['t let slip (which I understand they are not allowed to do).

Finally, I'm slightly concerned about the fall out from the complaint. It's obviously going to cost the neighbours a considerable sum (I'd expect in the low single digit thousands) and perhaps it's my paranoia, but the thought of petty revenge by damage to our property/cars rears its ugly head.

So, essentially, we gain nothing by telling them.

Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 22 August 14:36

You need to inform the neighbour, as they need to be aware that you are in dispute with them and that you will be putting in a complaint about the decking to the planning dept. They are under a legal obligation to disclose any neighbourly disputes to the purchaser, by not informing them of the dispute you will be playing into their hands. They can't disclose something they don't know anything about.

This is your leverage, and I suspect you will be get a far swifter resolution to this issue by potentially putting off purchasers than you will going through with a planning complaint. Your neighbours may have their house sold before the case even gets assigned to a Planning Officer.

As for vandalism, if they've got an ounce of intelligence they wouldn't want any police involvement when trying to sell a house - again they would be under an obligation to disclose this to any potential purchaser.

Them selling the house has put you in a far stronger position to get this sorted, but you need to directly involve the neighbour to be able to use it as leverage. I'd also be telling all the other neighbours that you're in dispute with them so that there are witnesses, thereby applying further pressure to the idiot neighbour as they will realise they can't just ignore it.

That's a very good point and thanks for taking the time to explain it.

I'll have a think about the best way to notify them.

The local planning department guidelines are 20 working days to investigate a non-urgent complaint, so it's going to be at least a month before anything further happens from their side.

We submitted a formal complaint with pictures yesterday.

[Mark Benson]

youngsyr said:

JQ said:

youngsyr said:

JQ said:

Once the advert is up, you may wish to drop an email to the Estate Agent stating that you are in dispute with their client over the decking and they should be making any potential purchasers aware.

I'd also make you neighbours aware, preferably in writing, that you are making a complaint to the local planning dept.

The above should create a few issues for them which may force them to resolve before they can sell.

The email to the estate agent is a good call, thanks! However, I'm in two minds whether to notify the neighbours directly.

Firstly, they've shown next to no consideration to us, so I feel no obligation to be respectful/decent to them.

Secondly, they'll find out soon enough anyway from the planning department (assuming they don't dismiss our complaint outright) and it will be blindingly obvious who has complained, even if the planning department don['t let slip (which I understand they are not allowed to do).

Finally, I'm slightly concerned about the fall out from the complaint. It's obviously going to cost the neighbours a considerable sum (I'd expect in the low single digit thousands) and perhaps it's my paranoia, but the thought of petty revenge by damage to our property/cars rears its ugly head.

So, essentially, we gain nothing by telling them.

Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 22 August 14:36

You need to inform the neighbour, as they need to be aware that you are in dispute with them and that you will be putting in a complaint about the decking to the planning dept. They are under a legal obligation to disclose any neighbourly disputes to the purchaser, by not informing them of the dispute you will be playing into their hands. They can't disclose something they don't know anything about.

This is your leverage, and I suspect you will be get a far swifter resolution to this issue by potentially putting off purchasers than you will going through with a planning complaint. Your neighbours may have their house sold before the case even gets assigned to a Planning Officer.

As for vandalism, if they've got an ounce of intelligence they wouldn't want any police involvement when trying to sell a house - again they would be under an obligation to disclose this to any potential purchaser.

Them selling the house has put you in a far stronger position to get this sorted, but you need to directly involve the neighbour to be able to use it as leverage. I'd also be telling all the other neighbours that you're in dispute with them so that there are witnesses, thereby applying further pressure to the idiot neighbour as they will realise they can't just ignore it.

That's a very good point and thanks for taking the time to explain it.

I'll have a think about the best way to notify them.

The local planning department guidelines are 20 working days to investigate a non-urgent complaint, so it's going to be at least a month before anything further happens from their side.

We submitted a formal complaint with pictures yesterday.

It's a very good point. Glad someone's on the ball

Letter to neighbour?
In the letter emphasise that you tried the reasonable, amicable route and since that got you nowhere you've submitted a formal planning complaint which is disclosable to any potential purchaser. Copy to agent also.

They'll probably come round and rant, but in reality that's all they'll do.

[JQ]

Mark Benson said:

It's a very good point. Glad someone's on the ball

Letter to neighbour?
In the letter emphasise that you tried the reasonable, amicable route and since that got you nowhere you've submitted a formal planning complaint which is disclosable to any potential purchaser. Copy to agent also.

They'll probably come round and rant, but in reality that's all they'll do.

That sounds like a very good idea.

OP, in terms of timing - I don't know what the market is like where you live, but in April we agreed a sale on our house. The sale was agreed within 48hrs of the particulars hitting Rightmove and I'd filled out all the legal declaration forms within a week of the sale being agreed.

We've recently agreed to buy a house, the EA gave us the nod on the day they went to value it. We viewed the day the EA was formally instructed and agreed a sale with the vendor that day. No particulars were ever drawn up, no other parties were even aware the property was coming to the market.

My point - you need to act quickly.

My only concern - you are 100% they're putting it on the market, as this is hitting the nuclear button? You could phone the agent who's car you recognised and ask if anythings coming to the market on that particular road as you're thinking of moving, just to check?

[youngsyr]

JQ said:

Mark Benson said:

It's a very good point. Glad someone's on the ball

Letter to neighbour?
In the letter emphasise that you tried the reasonable, amicable route and since that got you nowhere you've submitted a formal planning complaint which is disclosable to any potential purchaser. Copy to agent also.

They'll probably come round and rant, but in reality that's all they'll do.

That sounds like a very good idea.

OP, in terms of timing - I don't know what the market is like where you live, but in April we agreed a sale on our house. The sale was agreed within 48hrs of the particulars hitting Rightmove and I'd filled out all the legal declaration forms within a week of the sale being agreed.

We've recently agreed to buy a house, the EA gave us the nod on the day they went to value it. We viewed the day the EA was formally instructed and agreed a sale with the vendor that day. No particulars were ever drawn up, no other parties were even aware the property was coming to the market.

My point - you need to act quickly.

My only concern - you are 100% they're putting it on the market, as this is hitting the nuclear button? You could phone the agent who's car you recognised and ask if anythings coming to the market on that particular road as you're thinking of moving, just to check?

All good points again, thank you.

The market where we are is good, but not as hot as some areas, so I would expect it to take weeks/months for the house to sell, rather than days. Nonetheless, you're right in that not informing them asap is a risk.

I agree with you about contacting the EA too to sound them out as whilst it's highly likely they're putting it on the market imminently, there's no guarantee.

Re the letter, I'm tempted just to go with the bare minimum - "please be advised that a formal complaint has been made and we are in dispute etc".
I don't feel any need to justify my actions, it's not me who is in the wrong (as will hopefully be shown by the planning department upholding the complaint).

Edited by youngsyr on Thursday 23 August 10:19

[youngsyr]

Surprise, surprise...


[For Sale Advert Removed]

Open day for viewings is a week tomorrow.

Notice that the viewing platform is the second picture on the advert, so seems a key selling point. Picture 13 has a lovely view of our garden and picture 17 shows not just our hedge, but also part of the garden next door to us (two houses away from them)!

I'm going to draft a letter to them with their estate agent copied this afternoon.

Edited by youngsyr on Friday 24th August 14:50

[princeperch]

Not a bad little bit of business if they can sell for that....

[snake_oil]

Put a placard up in your garden on open day.

"I am in active dispute with the vendor regarding this monstrosity of a deck."

Job jobbed.

[princeperch]

Or turn the hose on them when they're out in the garden admiring the view

[dickymint]

snake_oil said:

Put a placard up in your garden on open day.

"I am in active dispute with the vendor regarding this monstrosity of a deck."

Job jobbed.

I absolutely agree with that ..... and get a load of local PHers to book the viewing

Joking (or maybe not) the photo of that decking really tells the story - IT WILL COME DOWN - hopefully not at the expense at whoever buys it!

PS. Property does look nicely done