Extension plans
Discussion
steveonts said:
Right, bit of an update. Have had someone else draw up some new ideas. What are peoples thoughts on this one? It gets rid of angles and it also does a good job of splitting the living space from the bed spaces.
Is that hand drawn? I can't tell what the rooms are off that plan but it looks like it flows better.I don't understand why you wouldn't pay an architect to do this properly? It would be a tiny proportion of the project costs and the design WILL be better. I'm not an architect but work with plans on a day to day basis. I knew exactly what I wanted but engaged an architect and they improved on my design - spaces flowed better and looked way nicer than my efforts. It was the best money I spent and I wouldn't entertain doing a project without one now.
Edited by NorthDave on Thursday 20th September 07:00
OP, I'm unable to upload images but what I'd do, is forget all the poky corridors.
One big f
koff rectangular hall with all the rooms off it. And one bathroom toilet accessed from 2 bedrooms and the hall. (plus master with ensuite and dressing room) If you can squeeze a utility in somewhere that's a bonus
One big f
koff rectangular hall with all the rooms off it. And one bathroom toilet accessed from 2 bedrooms and the hall. (plus master with ensuite and dressing room) If you can squeeze a utility in somewhere that's a bonusFundamental question for your design, what's the principle elevation of the property ? Presumably the wall where the current front door is ? However, the positioning of the conservatory, and whether any planning was required for it, throws up the possibility it's not.
Also be aware that getting planning to build forward of the principle elevation can be difficult (but not impossible), and that the "building line" follows exactly the wall that's built there (and not any projection such as a porch), not an imaginary line from the furthest point "forward". Whilst only a small area on your plans this could mean you can't fill in the corner under what is presumably currently a porch.
As this seems to be a bungalow, can you exploit the roof space to create bedroom(s) ? (we did this on the bungalow we renovated/extended to create master suite upstairs).
Also be aware that getting planning to build forward of the principle elevation can be difficult (but not impossible), and that the "building line" follows exactly the wall that's built there (and not any projection such as a porch), not an imaginary line from the furthest point "forward". Whilst only a small area on your plans this could mean you can't fill in the corner under what is presumably currently a porch.
As this seems to be a bungalow, can you exploit the roof space to create bedroom(s) ? (we did this on the bungalow we renovated/extended to create master suite upstairs).
Ok, first plans were drawn by a surveyor who does architectural design. I took your advice and went to a fully fledged architect and his hourly rate reflected that. This is just a concept plan he has done for us and should we wish to move forward with it we can make changes to parts of it and it will then be done as full architectural drawings etc. I have a larger hard copy version of the plan and can upload it if people have problems with this one.
The two exterior doors(the one on the left is a utility room) close to each other is something i feel is a bit silly too, but for practical reasons rather than how it would look. Absolutely none of the property can be seen from the public road due to extensive tree cover and the road is below the level of our plot. The drive way sits outside the existing front door and stretches to the garage which is to the right of the garden room/conservatory. I honestly dont know what the primary elevation would be. I assume it would be where the front door is but the side with the new front door in the latest plans is the elevation that faces the public road.
The architect also included a very rough estimate of costs for this latest design..which shocked me a bit to be honest. Its almost at the level where perhaps knocking the whole thing down and starting over would be not far off his cost.
The two exterior doors(the one on the left is a utility room) close to each other is something i feel is a bit silly too, but for practical reasons rather than how it would look. Absolutely none of the property can be seen from the public road due to extensive tree cover and the road is below the level of our plot. The drive way sits outside the existing front door and stretches to the garage which is to the right of the garden room/conservatory. I honestly dont know what the primary elevation would be. I assume it would be where the front door is but the side with the new front door in the latest plans is the elevation that faces the public road.
The architect also included a very rough estimate of costs for this latest design..which shocked me a bit to be honest. Its almost at the level where perhaps knocking the whole thing down and starting over would be not far off his cost.
steveonts said:
Ok, first plans were drawn by a surveyor who does architectural design. I took your advice and went to a fully fledged architect and his hourly rate reflected that. This is just a concept plan he has done for us and should we wish to move forward with it we can make changes to parts of it and it will then be done as full architectural drawings etc. I have a larger hard copy version of the plan and can upload it if people have problems with this one.
The two exterior doors(the one on the left is a utility room) close to each other is something i feel is a bit silly too, but for practical reasons rather than how it would look. Absolutely none of the property can be seen from the public road due to extensive tree cover and the road is below the level of our plot. The drive way sits outside the existing front door and stretches to the garage which is to the right of the garden room/conservatory. I honestly dont know what the primary elevation would be. I assume it would be where the front door is but the side with the new front door in the latest plans is the elevation that faces the public road.
The architect also included a very rough estimate of costs for this latest design..which shocked me a bit to be honest. Its almost at the level where perhaps knocking the whole thing down and starting over would be not far off his cost.
The two exterior doors(the one on the left is a utility room) close to each other is something i feel is a bit silly too, but for practical reasons rather than how it would look. Absolutely none of the property can be seen from the public road due to extensive tree cover and the road is below the level of our plot. The drive way sits outside the existing front door and stretches to the garage which is to the right of the garden room/conservatory. I honestly dont know what the primary elevation would be. I assume it would be where the front door is but the side with the new front door in the latest plans is the elevation that faces the public road.
The architect also included a very rough estimate of costs for this latest design..which shocked me a bit to be honest. Its almost at the level where perhaps knocking the whole thing down and starting over would be not far off his cost.
Don't give them any money. A couple of observations...
From looking at your 2 drawings (I am being polite) it strikes me that even you do not know exactly what you are looking for from a concept point of view. The designs are radically different. If you do not know then we cannot be of much help.
You have several spaces in both designs that have not been designed into it but rather you have just ended up with - the silly second entrance door is an example.
Do yourself a favour and get an A3 sketch pad and draw your outline roughly to scale and then play with the internals until you have a shape and design that fully works for you, draw that properly and come back to us for advice. It may take a full pad before you are happy - it is called design process.
We don't need to see a bed and cabinets - just Bed 1 and Bed 2, utility etc.
Just for sketch purposes use double lines for load bearing or brick/block walls and just single line for stud walls (keep it simple).
When you finalise your design then go back to an architect to work out the details for you.
Just my 2p.
From looking at your 2 drawings (I am being polite) it strikes me that even you do not know exactly what you are looking for from a concept point of view. The designs are radically different. If you do not know then we cannot be of much help.
You have several spaces in both designs that have not been designed into it but rather you have just ended up with - the silly second entrance door is an example.
Do yourself a favour and get an A3 sketch pad and draw your outline roughly to scale and then play with the internals until you have a shape and design that fully works for you, draw that properly and come back to us for advice. It may take a full pad before you are happy - it is called design process.
We don't need to see a bed and cabinets - just Bed 1 and Bed 2, utility etc.
Just for sketch purposes use double lines for load bearing or brick/block walls and just single line for stud walls (keep it simple).
When you finalise your design then go back to an architect to work out the details for you.
Just my 2p.
garyhun said:
OP - sorry if I missed this BUT what is the reason for the extension?
Unless we understand what your actually trying to achieve with this work it’s quite difficult to advise or provide useful feedback.
We need an extra bedroom, the kitchen and bathroom are too small and theres no ensuite which we would like. In adding those things, we would also like to improve the flow of the house, we dont like walking through the living room to get to the rest of the house for example.Unless we understand what your actually trying to achieve with this work it’s quite difficult to advise or provide useful feedback.
steveonts said:
garyhun said:
OP - sorry if I missed this BUT what is the reason for the extension?
Unless we understand what your actually trying to achieve with this work it’s quite difficult to advise or provide useful feedback.
We need an extra bedroom, the kitchen and bathroom are too small and theres no ensuite which we would like. In adding those things, we would also like to improve the flow of the house, we dont like walking through the living room to get to the rest of the house for example.Unless we understand what your actually trying to achieve with this work it’s quite difficult to advise or provide useful feedback.
steveonts said:
. I honestly dont know what the primary elevation would be. I assume it would be where the front door is but the side with the new front door in the latest plans is the elevation that faces the public road.
If I understand correctly from what you've posted then the house is essentially "sideways" on in the plot, with current front door on RH side as viewed from the road ?If this is correct this is a very significant piece of information and could have a huge impact on what you want to do.
You need to carefully review the planning history for your property and any previous extensions and see if anything there defined works as the "front", "rear" or "side". However, just because an elevation is the front of the property that doesn't necessarily make it the principal elevation
Where you're proposing to add bedrooms etc (the "new" front door on the last plan's you posted) could be regarded as the principal elevation. You're proposing a lot of work here and if it is the principal elevation you could come unstuck at planning stage.
We had similar with our bungalow renovation/extension (sideways on in the plot with front door on the RH side elevation relative to road) and had to "stage" planning approvals. Did one approval that from the road would be "the back" of the property (least controversial) with no intention to ever build it, but we called it the side and used that application to define the elevation with the front door as the principal one.
Once that was approved we could then add to elevations that from the road would be the "front" and "LH side" of the property, but from the above approved application defining principal elevation meant they were side & rear extensions, respectively. This was pivotal to us as we had to exploit the temporary permitted dev rights derogation for 8M rear extension for a detached property.
Pinkie15 said:
If I understand correctly from what you've posted then the house is essentially "sideways" on in the plot, with current front door on RH side as viewed from the road ?
If this is correct this is a very significant piece of information and could have a huge impact on what you want to do.
You need to carefully review the planning history for your property and any previous extensions and see if anything there defined works as the "front", "rear" or "side". However, just because an elevation is the front of the property that doesn't necessarily make it the principal elevation
Where you're proposing to add bedrooms etc (the "new" front door on the last plan's you posted) could be regarded as the principal elevation. You're proposing a lot of work here and if it is the principal elevation you could come unstuck at planning stage.
We had similar with our bungalow renovation/extension (sideways on in the plot with front door on the RH side elevation relative to road) and had to "stage" planning approvals. Did one approval that from the road would be "the back" of the property (least controversial) with no intention to ever build it, but we called it the side and used that application to define the elevation with the front door as the principal one.
Once that was approved we could then add to elevations that from the road would be the "front" and "LH side" of the property, but from the above approved application defining principal elevation meant they were side & rear extensions, respectively. This was pivotal to us as we had to exploit the temporary permitted dev rights derogation for 8M rear extension for a detached property.
There was a small extension which was done in 1997 and it was just to extend the kitchen area slightly. Theres not much online regarding the extension and no plans or anything. How would I find out the principle elevation otherwise? I would have assumed it was the elevation with the front door but it may well be the side facing the closest public road.If this is correct this is a very significant piece of information and could have a huge impact on what you want to do.
You need to carefully review the planning history for your property and any previous extensions and see if anything there defined works as the "front", "rear" or "side". However, just because an elevation is the front of the property that doesn't necessarily make it the principal elevation
Where you're proposing to add bedrooms etc (the "new" front door on the last plan's you posted) could be regarded as the principal elevation. You're proposing a lot of work here and if it is the principal elevation you could come unstuck at planning stage.
We had similar with our bungalow renovation/extension (sideways on in the plot with front door on the RH side elevation relative to road) and had to "stage" planning approvals. Did one approval that from the road would be "the back" of the property (least controversial) with no intention to ever build it, but we called it the side and used that application to define the elevation with the front door as the principal one.
Once that was approved we could then add to elevations that from the road would be the "front" and "LH side" of the property, but from the above approved application defining principal elevation meant they were side & rear extensions, respectively. This was pivotal to us as we had to exploit the temporary permitted dev rights derogation for 8M rear extension for a detached property.
Ive done this awful little plan which shows the situation. The yellow road at the top is very small road and it is below the level of my property. The roads to the side and below the property are a private driveway. The red on the plan is the garden room which i assume was added under permitted development at some point as no mention of it in planning application. Driveway outlined in black and the front door goes out onto that. The driveway surrounded by bushes.
steveonts said:
Ive done this awful little plan which shows the situation.
Well you’ve got a nice plot and plenty of space all around. No major roads to avoid and I doubt the principal elevation issue is going to be significant tbh. I imagine that was quite a specific set of circumstances.Like a lot of houses, it looks like your house has been extended at least a couple of times with the hall, WC and conservatory. No doubt there are some flat roof areas. Having the entrance at the end of a long house is always going to leave you going through one room to get to another which is not ideal, but to solve it you’ll need a much bigger budget than it looks like your surveyor was trying to work with. It looks like he was also trying to work with as much of the existing layout as possible and presumably has a plan for the roof which a lot of people posting on might well not have thought about.
Personally, I think the surveyor’s plan works ok with a few tweaks and would be much cheaper to build. I would move the WC to the wall facing the drive and turn it through 90 degrees with access off the hall. Close up the door to the dining area off the hall. The shape of the dining area is now better and you can have a big window or doors to the garden rather than looking at the drive. It also a better relationship to the kitchen. I would also close the door from the living room to the second hall and move the door to bed 1 to the left end of the wall it’s on. Then you can move the kitchen cupboard through 90 degrees to area where that second hall was. So the original cupboard is now part of a much better shaped squarer second hall with all doors off it and saving you walking past one bed 1 to get to all the other bedrooms. It does create a bit of a corridor through the kitchen but with a good layout and the right furniture you can get away from that feel.
If you PM me I'll email you a plan of what I mean.
Of course if you've got a bigger budget you could move the driveway, build a new garage and get the hall in the middle and extend to the right etc etc.
OP, what was your original brief to the designer? Not that I'm laying any blame at you of course but sometimes these things can be client lead.
Also, with regards to knocking it down and starting again, a new build house is zero rated for VAT.
To whoever said you require two doors separating a WC and the Kitchen, this is not the case.
Also, with regards to knocking it down and starting again, a new build house is zero rated for VAT.
To whoever said you require two doors separating a WC and the Kitchen, this is not the case.
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