Breathable floors, limecrete or other optoins?
Discussion
Equus said:
The simple answer to that one is to use a substrate with minimal capillary effect. Clean brick hardcore would do the job pretty well. 
And of course you should be taking measures externally to ensure that groundwater around the building footprint is minimal... all the fancy floor design in the world wont stop the walls wicking up groundwater if their bases are piss wet through on the outside (as I've said previously).
Every measure possible has been done now(previously stated). All new drains, french drains where possible, correct render used, stone plinth exposed, ground levels altered(2 foot drop at one part and pushed back 4M).And of course you should be taking measures externally to ensure that groundwater around the building footprint is minimal... all the fancy floor design in the world wont stop the walls wicking up groundwater if their bases are piss wet through on the outside (as I've said previously).
jason61c said:
Every measure possible has been done now(previously stated).
Then you shouldn't have a problem....In which case, I wouldn't be worrying about questionable, snake-oil solutions on top of those measures which might actually make things worse.
With UFH, I'd be using a DPM... no question about it. All a breathable floor will do is allow a nice, easy route for the vapour generated by the heat soak from of the UFH (even despite insulation) to find its way into the building.
Equus said:
Then you shouldn't have a problem.
...In which case, I wouldn't be worrying about questionable, snake-oil solutions on top of those measures which might actually make things worse.
With UFH, I'd be using a DPM... no question about it. All a breathable floor will do is allow a nice, easy route for the vapour generated by the heat soak from of the UFH (even despite insulation) to find its way into the building.
No I shouldn't. Its a belt and braces approach ...In which case, I wouldn't be worrying about questionable, snake-oil solutions on top of those measures which might actually make things worse.
With UFH, I'd be using a DPM... no question about it. All a breathable floor will do is allow a nice, easy route for the vapour generated by the heat soak from of the UFH (even despite insulation) to find its way into the building.
Just to update this thread.
Went with a limecrete floor, so glad I did.
Floor dried very well, zero cracking, was warm to the feel. The one bit of remaining damp vanished, So no DPC or membranes anywhere, perfectly dry house, just as it was built I guess. Even when we've had weeks of rain. This was before any UFH was used. humidity is much lower also. Win/Win.
Forced action mixer was the best thing ever for mixing the lime compared to a tumble mixer.
32 tonnes dug out the house(mini digger!), about 12 tonnes back in.
Anyone with an older house, its well worth doing it if you need to.
Went with a limecrete floor, so glad I did.
Floor dried very well, zero cracking, was warm to the feel. The one bit of remaining damp vanished, So no DPC or membranes anywhere, perfectly dry house, just as it was built I guess. Even when we've had weeks of rain. This was before any UFH was used. humidity is much lower also. Win/Win.
Forced action mixer was the best thing ever for mixing the lime compared to a tumble mixer.
32 tonnes dug out the house(mini digger!), about 12 tonnes back in.
Anyone with an older house, its well worth doing it if you need to.
C Lee Farquar said:
Glad it's working for you.
For balance though I related many of the points Equus made to a customer who was considering a limecrete floor. They decided to have concrete, have had no damp and are very happy. Also a win/win.
Yep, I did really consider all options. Its the long term that held me back going for concrete, issues seem to take years to come through.For balance though I related many of the points Equus made to a customer who was considering a limecrete floor. They decided to have concrete, have had no damp and are very happy. Also a win/win.
I recall from a training course I went on many years ago that lime plaster should be regarded as a sacrificial coat, and I would think the same would be true of a floor without a membrane.
If the wall/floor is 'breathing' you will get salt deposits, which over the years will build up and cause their own problems. However this may take decades or centuries so I wouldn't be losing any sleep.
If the wall/floor is 'breathing' you will get salt deposits, which over the years will build up and cause their own problems. However this may take decades or centuries so I wouldn't be losing any sleep.
C Lee Farquar said:
I recall from a training course I went on many years ago that lime plaster should be regarded as a sacrificial coat, and I would think the same would be true of a floor without a membrane.
If the wall/floor is 'breathing' you will get salt deposits, which over the years will build up and cause their own problems. However this may take decades or centuries so I wouldn't be losing any sleep.
Yep, correct for lime plaster, however the floor is NHL5, which when used in this application doesn't have any issues.If the wall/floor is 'breathing' you will get salt deposits, which over the years will build up and cause their own problems. However this may take decades or centuries so I wouldn't be losing any sleep.
Its a nice way of building.
jason61c said:
Just to update this thread.
Went with a limecrete floor, so glad I did.
Floor dried very well, zero cracking, was warm to the feel. The one bit of remaining damp vanished, So no DPC or membranes anywhere, perfectly dry house, just as it was built I guess. Even when we've had weeks of rain. This was before any UFH was used. humidity is much lower also. Win/Win.
Forced action mixer was the best thing ever for mixing the lime compared to a tumble mixer.
32 tonnes dug out the house(mini digger!), about 12 tonnes back in.
Anyone with an older house, its well worth doing it if you need to.
What are your impressions of your limecrete floor after 4 years have passed by? Your feedback would be really valuable since i am in the same position you have been 4 years ago Went with a limecrete floor, so glad I did.
Floor dried very well, zero cracking, was warm to the feel. The one bit of remaining damp vanished, So no DPC or membranes anywhere, perfectly dry house, just as it was built I guess. Even when we've had weeks of rain. This was before any UFH was used. humidity is much lower also. Win/Win.
Forced action mixer was the best thing ever for mixing the lime compared to a tumble mixer.
32 tonnes dug out the house(mini digger!), about 12 tonnes back in.
Anyone with an older house, its well worth doing it if you need to.
papante said:
jason61c said:
Just to update this thread.
Went with a limecrete floor, so glad I did.
Floor dried very well, zero cracking, was warm to the feel. The one bit of remaining damp vanished, So no DPC or membranes anywhere, perfectly dry house, just as it was built I guess. Even when we've had weeks of rain. This was before any UFH was used. humidity is much lower also. Win/Win.
Forced action mixer was the best thing ever for mixing the lime compared to a tumble mixer.
32 tonnes dug out the house(mini digger!), about 12 tonnes back in.
Anyone with an older house, its well worth doing it if you need to.
What are your impressions of your limecrete floor after 4 years have passed by? Your feedback would be really valuable since i am in the same position you have been 4 years ago Went with a limecrete floor, so glad I did.
Floor dried very well, zero cracking, was warm to the feel. The one bit of remaining damp vanished, So no DPC or membranes anywhere, perfectly dry house, just as it was built I guess. Even when we've had weeks of rain. This was before any UFH was used. humidity is much lower also. Win/Win.
Forced action mixer was the best thing ever for mixing the lime compared to a tumble mixer.
32 tonnes dug out the house(mini digger!), about 12 tonnes back in.
Anyone with an older house, its well worth doing it if you need to.
Ive had humidity meters everywhere for a couple of years now as we have done the work. Its interesting seeing things change and the house and materials react.
papante said:
Good to know that 2 people from here actually put the theory of Limecrete floor into practice and the results are as expected. Lot of theory and much more experts around, but at the end what matters is the result.
there's a few locally who aren't on here that have done it also. all with the same positive results.papante said:
Good to know that 2 people from here actually put the theory of Limecrete floor into practice and the results are as expected. Lot of theory and much more experts around, but at the end what matters is the result.
That's the thing, really: they do work, but not for the reason that most 'experts' (read:snake oil salesmen) think they do, and not because of the limecrete.I've have this discussion with Jason61c many times, so I know he's drunk enough of the Koolaid never to change his view, but you absolutely cannot breathe water vapour or moisture out of a building through a limecrete floor into damp ground below. It's just blatantly against the laws of physics.
What works is that the foamglas insulation they use below the limecrete provides a thick isolating layer to keep the damp in the underlying ground from reaching the structure (and draining the base of the external walls).
In other words: it's the foamglass insulation that's the cure, not the limecrete. The limecrete actually reduces its effectiveness.
Equus said:
That's the thing, really: they do work, but not for the reason that most 'experts' (read:snake oil salesmen) think they do, and not because of the limecrete.
I've have this discussion with Jason61c many times, so I know he's drunk enough of the Koolaid never to change his view, but you absolutely cannot breathe water vapour or moisture out of a building through a limecrete floor into damp ground below. It's just blatantly against the laws of physics.
What works is that the foamglas insulation they use below the limecrete provides a thick isolating layer to keep the damp in the underlying ground from reaching the structure (and draining the base of the external walls).
In other words: it's the foamglass insulation that's the cure, not the limecrete. The limecrete actually reduces its effectiveness.
No one says it doesn into a damp ground below.I've have this discussion with Jason61c many times, so I know he's drunk enough of the Koolaid never to change his view, but you absolutely cannot breathe water vapour or moisture out of a building through a limecrete floor into damp ground below. It's just blatantly against the laws of physics.
What works is that the foamglas insulation they use below the limecrete provides a thick isolating layer to keep the damp in the underlying ground from reaching the structure (and draining the base of the external walls).
In other words: it's the foamglass insulation that's the cure, not the limecrete. The limecrete actually reduces its effectiveness.
You've made your opinions quite clear, there's a few opinions on here from those that 'have'.
jason61c said:
No one says it doesn into a damp ground below.
Well, we're talking about breathable floors (check the topic title...), so if the moisture doesn't 'breath' into the ground, where does it breathe to?It's a simple enough question, and I've asked it many times, yet you seem unable to offer an answer?
Come on: either it's snake oil, or there is some explainable basis in scientific and technical fact. Which is it?
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