House buying - Seller states No to flooding
Discussion
fastgerman said:
Attached is a photo showing:
from the left that the highways road slopes to our property,
Without wishing to repeat myself for a third (?) time, but as you seem to be deliberately ignoring the advice given to you : CALL THE COUNCIL AND GET THEM TO CLEAR THE GULLIES. How much clearer do you need this saying? You have said twice now that it's a public "highways" road, ergo maintained by the local authority so it's their job to keep the gullies clear. Also, there should be a gully in the bottom corner of that road end outside your gate if it's under their control.from the left that the highways road slopes to our property,
Do you want to fix the source of the problem or are you only interested in persuing your one-man crusade against the seller's daughter which you haven't got a hope in hell of proving and so zero chance of seeing any financial compensation? If it's the latter then do let us know so that we can all stop wasting our time trying to help you.
Lemming Train said:
Without wishing to repeat myself for a third (?) time, but as you seem to be deliberately ignoring the advice given to you : CALL THE COUNCIL AND GET THEM TO CLEAR THE GULLIES. How much clearer do you need this saying? You have said twice now that it's a public "highways" road, ergo maintained by the local authority so it's their job to keep the gullies clear. Also, there should be a gully in the bottom corner of that road end outside your gate if it's under their control.
Do you want to fix the source of the problem or are you only interested in persuing your one-man crusade against the seller's daughter which you haven't got a hope in hell of proving and so zero chance of seeing any financial compensation? If it's the latter then do let us know so that we can all stop wasting our time trying to help you.
Calm down sir, slightly odd response! Do you want to fix the source of the problem or are you only interested in persuing your one-man crusade against the seller's daughter which you haven't got a hope in hell of proving and so zero chance of seeing any financial compensation? If it's the latter then do let us know so that we can all stop wasting our time trying to help you.
The OP has expressed that he is in contact with all the relevant authorities and I'm sure they would be over the moon to send out a team to clean the gullies waste some more time and see it fixes zero the next time it rains!
Clearing gullies is not going to fix this issue, especially as it would appear that it is a historic and long term problem. Therefore another level of drainage needs to be added to the system as the current one cannot cope.
The best route here as a few people have mentioned is deference in the short term and creating a drain between the route of water and his drive long term.
A soak-away it the traditional sense won't work here due to the volume of water, however it could be used in a more large scale sump setup do deal with the volume of water.
His so called "one man crusade"?! is fairly justified in my eyes if the seller was aware of an issue like this historically and it hasn't been noted. However as it isn't a rising water issue I doubt that will help and she is a lawyer so fees on the OP's part could get silly if she represents herself - although its not to say she is familiar with conveyancing and could!!
fastgerman - Where is the nearest drain to that fence post where the water is passing?
strath44 said:
Lemming Train said:
Without wishing to repeat myself for a third (?) time, but as you seem to be deliberately ignoring the advice given to you : CALL THE COUNCIL AND GET THEM TO CLEAR THE GULLIES. How much clearer do you need this saying? You have said twice now that it's a public "highways" road, ergo maintained by the local authority so it's their job to keep the gullies clear. Also, there should be a gully in the bottom corner of that road end outside your gate if it's under their control.
Do you want to fix the source of the problem or are you only interested in persuing your one-man crusade against the seller's daughter which you haven't got a hope in hell of proving and so zero chance of seeing any financial compensation? If it's the latter then do let us know so that we can all stop wasting our time trying to help you.
Calm down sir, slightly odd response! Do you want to fix the source of the problem or are you only interested in persuing your one-man crusade against the seller's daughter which you haven't got a hope in hell of proving and so zero chance of seeing any financial compensation? If it's the latter then do let us know so that we can all stop wasting our time trying to help you.
The OP has expressed that he is in contact with all the relevant authorities and I'm sure they would be over the moon to send out a team to clean the gullies waste some more time and see it fixes zero the next time it rains!
Clearing gullies is not going to fix this issue, especially as it would appear that it is a historic and long term problem. Therefore another level of drainage needs to be added to the system as the current one cannot cope.
The best route here as a few people have mentioned is deference in the short term and creating a drain between the route of water and his drive long term.
A soak-away it the traditional sense won't work here due to the volume of water, however it could be used in a more large scale sump setup do deal with the volume of water.
His so called "one man crusade"?! is fairly justified in my eyes if the seller was aware of an issue like this historically and it hasn't been noted. However as it isn't a rising water issue I doubt that will help and she is a lawyer so fees on the OP's part could get silly if she represents herself - although its not to say she is familiar with conveyancing and could!!
fastgerman - Where is the nearest drain to that fence post where the water is passing?
OP said:
The drains are rubbish so we have been emailing + several face to face meetings with Thames Water, Council, Highways, Private engineers etc. We have gone halves on some work that made an improvement but not fully resolved.
£10k spent so far, reckon another £10k or so needed. Think we would have offered 5% less than we paid if we knew of the issues.
[...]
No blocked drains etc, just not enough drainage[/b]
Fair enough. But this still doesn't explain why - if it's public local authority maintained as stated - the council are not dealing with it. The council are responsible for the surface water drainage on surfaces maintained by them so why has he spent £10k of his own money trying (and failing) to fix the council's problem. If the source of the problem is originating from someone else's land and flooding onto the highway then I would imagine that the council have the powers to force the land owner to deal with it/stop it from happening. Maybe Bob could chime in with his knowledge on this one?£10k spent so far, reckon another £10k or so needed. Think we would have offered 5% less than we paid if we knew of the issues.
[...]
No blocked drains etc, just not enough drainage[/b]
But I stand by my comments that persuing the seller is not going to solve the problem of his house and garden flooding every time it rains so his energy and time would be better focused on dealing with the source of the problem.
Albeit in Scotland my success has come from trying to come to a mutual agreement with the council as to a solution and by mutual I mean reducing some of the cost to them as lets face it they will be skint as per all regions!
In my case they supplied the hardware and I had someone install it alongside other work at minimal cost to me, the council then came out to make good on the tarmac front.
The key is speaking to the right person and that can be hard!
I think if nothing has been done about it previously particularly when an elderly person has lived there with a lawyer for a daughter a new approach may be needed ie spending a few £k on it!
In my case they supplied the hardware and I had someone install it alongside other work at minimal cost to me, the council then came out to make good on the tarmac front.
The key is speaking to the right person and that can be hard!
I think if nothing has been done about it previously particularly when an elderly person has lived there with a lawyer for a daughter a new approach may be needed ie spending a few £k on it!
Hi All,
Again, thanks for all the replies, i'm reading them all if not fully replying to everyone.
This is a 2 year issue for me, do believe me when I say we have tried everything with the departments. We have a local MP (Anne Milton) chasing up actions from the minutes that I take from meeting onsite - seriously.
We had to have surveys to prove it was not Thames Water responsibility - this took about a year and 40 emails, phone calls and face to face meetings.
We can't touch the road, its not ours, but we did go halves on some work - reshaping road, speed hump to slow water down and larger storm drain (but not the drain pipe).
More pictures:
The highways and council have accepted responsibility but they apparently have the following stopping them making a perfect solution:
- full surveys required - in progress
- after survey, they will get fy19 investigation capital budget
- fy20 - fy21 is when they think they can do the work IF approved
- they only have to fix normal weather related issues, not extreme issues.
In my opinion, we still need a backup to the drains being cleared as they only do that once a year and heavy rain fills them with sand nearly monthly.
I will explore the trench / grid to take water behind the bins but it is quite up hill so will need some digging - the foot path behind is at a lower level so a proper grid between gate posts + a pipe going under the green (where the bins are) and onto the footpath is possible.
Thanks
ps still 100% sure the sellers daughter knew this as our neighbours confirm they helped sweep out the water from the garage every few months
Edit - more picture below showing the drain pipe going under the green (where the bins are), clearly not big enough to take the volume. Might be fixed in 3 years time... then I have to hope the drains further up are kept clear:
Again, thanks for all the replies, i'm reading them all if not fully replying to everyone.
This is a 2 year issue for me, do believe me when I say we have tried everything with the departments. We have a local MP (Anne Milton) chasing up actions from the minutes that I take from meeting onsite - seriously.
We had to have surveys to prove it was not Thames Water responsibility - this took about a year and 40 emails, phone calls and face to face meetings.
We can't touch the road, its not ours, but we did go halves on some work - reshaping road, speed hump to slow water down and larger storm drain (but not the drain pipe).
More pictures:
The highways and council have accepted responsibility but they apparently have the following stopping them making a perfect solution:
- full surveys required - in progress
- after survey, they will get fy19 investigation capital budget
- fy20 - fy21 is when they think they can do the work IF approved
- they only have to fix normal weather related issues, not extreme issues.
In my opinion, we still need a backup to the drains being cleared as they only do that once a year and heavy rain fills them with sand nearly monthly.
I will explore the trench / grid to take water behind the bins but it is quite up hill so will need some digging - the foot path behind is at a lower level so a proper grid between gate posts + a pipe going under the green (where the bins are) and onto the footpath is possible.
Thanks
ps still 100% sure the sellers daughter knew this as our neighbours confirm they helped sweep out the water from the garage every few months
Edit - more picture below showing the drain pipe going under the green (where the bins are), clearly not big enough to take the volume. Might be fixed in 3 years time... then I have to hope the drains further up are kept clear:
Edited by fastgerman on Thursday 15th November 15:37
fastgerman said:
ps still 100% sure the sellers daughter knew this as our neighbours confirm they helped sweep out the water from the garage every few months
In that case definately think about investigating if she might be guilty of professional misconduct. You might need to confirm if your situation comes under the defination of flooding requiring declartion first though. Interesting. Is that video supposed to play because it's not working for me? Seems to be just a screenshot of a video? 
It seems to show that the gully is handling the surface water mostly okay (although it shouldn't be pooling like it is at the top of the pic) so where was the deluge of water coming from in your original pics?
I would say that the highways and council admitting responsibility tells you all you need to know. Basically they know that THEIR drainage is inadequate but they have more important things that they would prefer to spend their money on than preventing your driveway and garage from getting a bit floaty. In short: they're fobbing you off and hope you'll go away as they don't want to deal with it. I'm pretty sure they already know it's going to cost them eleventy gazillion pounds to dig up and replace the drainage pipes with something of a larger bore and higher capacity.
Their argument about only fixing 'normal' weather related issues is another cop-out. A long or heavy period of rain is 'normal' weather in the UK and the run-off in your original photos is perfectly normal when you're downstream of hills and fields. There is nothing 'extreme' about it so don't let them fob you off with that crap.
Furthermore, telling you that they only send out the gully tanker once a year may be correct, but you can also request that they attend in between times if the gully is blocked/overflowing. If the operator is unable to clear it properly then they should pass the job on to their jetting team/contractors. Do you know if this has been done? If the jetting team can't clear it then that's when it's referred back to the Highways dept for surveys to be done.
Where is the last photo taken from and what's going on there?
Do you know where the gully drains to that's just outside your property? A lot of water authorities have sewer and water drainage pipe maps on their websites where you can check their course.
What is the elevation of the land like to the right of your property (beyond where the road ends) and behind it? Does the elevation drop away so that if not for the flat opening into your driveway the water would carry on flowing past your house and away down a hill? If so then I would be looking at constructing a channel or manmade brook if your prefer, where the grass is alongside the kerb, dig out the cobbled driveway entrance and take the channel across there where the road ends and fill it with suitably sized rocks to allow the water pass through. Basically you need to find where the next lowest point is that's not yours or your neighbour's property and divert the water there. I appreciate that's easier said than done, but given that the Highways plan to keep their fingers wedged up their arses doing f
k all about it for the next 3 years at least then personally I'd be taking matters into my own hands rather than risking my house flooding which is exactly what will happen if you have a prolonged period of rain or a rapid thaw of snow from those adjacent fields, for example.
It seems to show that the gully is handling the surface water mostly okay (although it shouldn't be pooling like it is at the top of the pic) so where was the deluge of water coming from in your original pics?I would say that the highways and council admitting responsibility tells you all you need to know. Basically they know that THEIR drainage is inadequate but they have more important things that they would prefer to spend their money on than preventing your driveway and garage from getting a bit floaty. In short: they're fobbing you off and hope you'll go away as they don't want to deal with it. I'm pretty sure they already know it's going to cost them eleventy gazillion pounds to dig up and replace the drainage pipes with something of a larger bore and higher capacity.
Their argument about only fixing 'normal' weather related issues is another cop-out. A long or heavy period of rain is 'normal' weather in the UK and the run-off in your original photos is perfectly normal when you're downstream of hills and fields. There is nothing 'extreme' about it so don't let them fob you off with that crap.
Furthermore, telling you that they only send out the gully tanker once a year may be correct, but you can also request that they attend in between times if the gully is blocked/overflowing. If the operator is unable to clear it properly then they should pass the job on to their jetting team/contractors. Do you know if this has been done? If the jetting team can't clear it then that's when it's referred back to the Highways dept for surveys to be done.
Where is the last photo taken from and what's going on there?
Do you know where the gully drains to that's just outside your property? A lot of water authorities have sewer and water drainage pipe maps on their websites where you can check their course.
What is the elevation of the land like to the right of your property (beyond where the road ends) and behind it? Does the elevation drop away so that if not for the flat opening into your driveway the water would carry on flowing past your house and away down a hill? If so then I would be looking at constructing a channel or manmade brook if your prefer, where the grass is alongside the kerb, dig out the cobbled driveway entrance and take the channel across there where the road ends and fill it with suitably sized rocks to allow the water pass through. Basically you need to find where the next lowest point is that's not yours or your neighbour's property and divert the water there. I appreciate that's easier said than done, but given that the Highways plan to keep their fingers wedged up their arses doing f
k all about it for the next 3 years at least then personally I'd be taking matters into my own hands rather than risking my house flooding which is exactly what will happen if you have a prolonged period of rain or a rapid thaw of snow from those adjacent fields, for example.Edited by Lemming Train on Thursday 15th November 16:41
Just a thought, but how old is that block paving under the gate?
It looks fairly new and seems to have a cover of some sort in it. Is it possible this was done in haste (maybe to smarten the house up ahead of selling) and covered over some existing drainage, making the problem worse?
It looks fairly new and seems to have a cover of some sort in it. Is it possible this was done in haste (maybe to smarten the house up ahead of selling) and covered over some existing drainage, making the problem worse?
herewego said:
I wonder if there should be a ditch along the other side of the road.
I did some building work for a friend who lives at the bottom of a steep field, in heavy rain a stream of water formed, all it took was a hastily dug channel of approx 6" wide by 4" deep to divert it awayfastgerman said:
.
These two pics are a puzzle, in one the road looks quite narrow in the other it's wide enough for a large car and has a patch of grass in the middle.Edited by fastgerman on Thursday 15th November 15:37
If this is actually a public highway then yes, the Highway Authority have a legal responsibility to stop it flooding your property. Escalate your attack on them, press, media etc as well as MP, Local Councillor etc, Makes more sense than chasing the seller who cannot actually do anything to alleviate the situation
Skyedriver said:
These two pics are a puzzle, in one the road looks quite narrow in the other it's wide enough for a large car and has a patch of grass in the middle.
If this is actually a public highway then yes, the Highway Authority have a legal responsibility to stop it flooding your property. Escalate your attack on them, press, media etc as well as MP, Local Councillor etc, Makes more sense than chasing the seller who cannot actually do anything to alleviate the situation
One looks like the road and the other his driveway? If this is actually a public highway then yes, the Highway Authority have a legal responsibility to stop it flooding your property. Escalate your attack on them, press, media etc as well as MP, Local Councillor etc, Makes more sense than chasing the seller who cannot actually do anything to alleviate the situation
Skyedriver said:
These two pics are a puzzle, in one the road looks quite narrow in the other it's wide enough for a large car and has a patch of grass in the middle.
If this is actually a public highway then yes, the Highway Authority have a legal responsibility to stop it flooding your property. Escalate your attack on them, press, media etc as well as MP, Local Councillor etc, Makes more sense than chasing the seller who cannot actually do anything to alleviate the situation
If this is actually a public highway then yes, the Highway Authority have a legal responsibility to stop it flooding your property. Escalate your attack on them, press, media etc as well as MP, Local Councillor etc, Makes more sense than chasing the seller who cannot actually do anything to alleviate the situation
It's quite obvious that he shot the first pic stood next to the black bin in the second pic.
Hoping these photos answer most of the questions.
The area being dug is behind the bins by a footpath. They laid a new drain pipe but doesn’t cope with the volume of water.
We put in the gates and granite sets more because people kept turning on our driveway. FYI second pic above is our driveway.
The area being dug is behind the bins by a footpath. They laid a new drain pipe but doesn’t cope with the volume of water.
We put in the gates and granite sets more because people kept turning on our driveway. FYI second pic above is our driveway.
We asked the council (who own the hills in the photo) about a ditch but they said no as nobody would maintain them...
Yes it probably would be the easiest and cheapest solution.
Along the road, there are only 2 or 3 small grids so the water basically runs over them.
Interestingly, long periods of rain are okay, it’s the flash floods in the summer where the water just runs across the ground and doesn’t absorb into the hills/footpaths/grass.
Yes it probably would be the easiest and cheapest solution.
Along the road, there are only 2 or 3 small grids so the water basically runs over them.
Interestingly, long periods of rain are okay, it’s the flash floods in the summer where the water just runs across the ground and doesn’t absorb into the hills/footpaths/grass.
Edited by fastgerman on Friday 16th November 07:18
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