Anyone Restoring or Restored a Historic Building?
Discussion
We had the pebble dashed concrete render stripped from our II* C16 timber framed house if that's of interest, and have had other works done.
Generally positive experience. The main works were in order to restore and preserve which I think were well received. The others were changes for utility - restrained works and we went in with a view that if they weren't approved, it was no big deal.
Happy to answer any specific questions.
(To an earlier post, are you allowed to just let a listed building collapse? And even if you do, would you be allowed to do what you wanted with what's left?)
Generally positive experience. The main works were in order to restore and preserve which I think were well received. The others were changes for utility - restrained works and we went in with a view that if they weren't approved, it was no big deal.
Happy to answer any specific questions.
(To an earlier post, are you allowed to just let a listed building collapse? And even if you do, would you be allowed to do what you wanted with what's left?)
Murph7355 said:
Equus said:
Murph7355 said:
To an earlier post, are you allowed to just let a listed building collapse? And even if you do, would you be allowed to do what you wanted with what's left?
Short answer: no, you are not.Liink
Equus said:
...
I hope that the OP is balancing and qualifying the feedback by seeking the views of those on both 'sides' of the process?
Perhaps it should be made a mandatory part of the purchase process, on any listed property, to properly educate the purchaser on the obligations and expectations that go along with it -
...
Having found my listed property 30 years ago through the Society for the Protection of Ancient BuildingsI hope that the OP is balancing and qualifying the feedback by seeking the views of those on both 'sides' of the process?
Perhaps it should be made a mandatory part of the purchase process, on any listed property, to properly educate the purchaser on the obligations and expectations that go along with it -
...
and having had it surveyed by one of their recommended specialist surveyors, I certainly knew what I was getting myself into.
I'd be interested to know how many positive experiences the OP gets.
My own personal experience, the experience of keeping an eye on Consultee Comments for applications in the area, that of friends, neighbours and others has been overwhelmingly and consistently NEGATIVE.
I'll just a couple of examples: friends who own a late 17th century house in London, had many many arguments
with the listed buildings' officer regarding what they could and could not alter, and compromises were reached.
But the LBO insisted that a particular wall of panelling must be kept where it was; not because of the cover all reason they can give of being part of the 'story' of the house, but because the panelling was 'original'.
Our friends made the decision that once everything had been completed and signed off they would risk the consequences and move the panelling …..
...… It turned out that the 'late 17th century' panelling was made from asbestos
.A neighbour who has an early 17th century listed house surrounded by a late 19th century brick garden wall needed to repair a section of the garden wall.
Heritage insisted that the bricks were cleaned off and reused.
The trouble was that the ORIGINAL mortar was a hard cement and not lime, and so the bricks could not be reused.
So new bricks were approved, but Heritage insisted that this time the rebuilt section of the wall had to use lime mortar,
and, the colour of the lime mortar mix had to match the existing (white) cement, which was impossible to achieve
using lime.
Building control wanted the wall rebuilt using construction joints, but no - Heritage insisted that the same
Elderly said:
A neighbour who has an early 17th century listed house surrounded by a late 19th century brick garden wall needed to repair a section of the garden wall... Building control wanted the wall rebuilt using construction joints, but no - Heritage insisted that the same mistake method used 150 years ago had to be employed.
So, just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly:Notwithstanding the fact that they're actually less necessary where walls are pointed in lime mortar, anyway, you're suggesting that a 19th Century wall within the curtilage of a listed building should be rebuilt with modern movement joints?
I can understand why you might not see eye-to-eye with the average Conservation Officer!
Equus said:
So, just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly:
…….. you're suggesting that a 19th Century wall within the curtilage of a listed building should be rebuilt with modern movement joints?
You are not understanding me correctly - NOT ME, but Building Control and the very experienced contractors who have done projects for the National Trust and Natural England were (under the specific circumstances of this build) recommending this method.…….. you're suggesting that a 19th Century wall within the curtilage of a listed building should be rebuilt with modern movement joints?
Elderly said:
You are not understanding me correctly - NOT ME, but Building Control and the very experienced contractors who have done projects for the National Trust and Natural England were (under the specific circumstances of this build) recommending this method.
Then Building Control and the very experienced contractors who had done projects for the National Trust and Natural England (does that mean they were experts on Squirrels as well?) were in the wrong, and thank heavens for the Conservation Officer!Equus said:
Elderly said:
….. (under the specific circumstances of this build) …..
Then Building Control and the very experienced contractors who had done projects for the National Trust and Natural England (does that mean they were experts on Squirrels as well?) were in the wrong, and thank heavens for the Conservation Officer!Elderly said:
If you had been privy to "the specific circumstances of this build", you might not be so pedantic?
Possibly.But I'm conscious that there are two sides to every argument.
...and the two bits of clear information that you have given us - that the wall has been standing for over a century without movement joints, and that you were replacing cement mortar with lime mortar (which is much more 'plastic', and so doesn't need movement joints anything like as much) - tell me fairly clearly that on that specific point, the Conservation Officer was correct and the BCO and contractor were the ones who were being unnecessarily pedantic in the application of modern construction standards that were neither necessary nor appropriate in that case.
Perhaps you can enlighten us as to "the specific circumstances of the build" that might change my mind, but I'm certainly not seeing them yet.
I was about to post the same, you do not need movement joints in lime walls at all. Thats why there's so many that are 100's of M long, without any issues for 100's of years.
A lot of the time BCO's have zero idea about how old buildings work.
I love having an old property. They're a nice 'atmosphere' to live in. Healthy feeling. I subscribe to the fact that I don't own it, i'm looking after it for a period. Its about 400 years old, it'll still be here in 400 years.
A lot of the time BCO's have zero idea about how old buildings work.
I love having an old property. They're a nice 'atmosphere' to live in. Healthy feeling. I subscribe to the fact that I don't own it, i'm looking after it for a period. Its about 400 years old, it'll still be here in 400 years.
Elderly said:
Equus said:
Elderly said:
….. (under the specific circumstances of this build) …..
Then Building Control and the very experienced contractors who had done projects for the National Trust and Natural England (does that mean they were experts on Squirrels as well?) were in the wrong, and thank heavens for the Conservation Officer!Murph7355 said:
Equus said:
Murph7355 said:
To an earlier post, are you allowed to just let a listed building collapse? And even if you do, would you be allowed to do what you wanted with what's left?
Short answer: no, you are not.Liink
Willhire89 said:
Someone should tell Brighton and Hove then - the West Pier which is G1 looks less complete every time I pass by and EH are quoted as agreeing to allow it to dissolve
I did say that that was the short answer. 
You need to read the document I linked to, to start to gain some idea of the longer answer (which is itself then constrained by budget, politics and lots of other factors), but as a start:
it said:
....local authorities have a range of statutory enforcement powers ...to secure the future of historic buildings.
...Deciding which of the available powers to employ and in what combination will always depend on individual circumstances and the professional judgment of the local planning authority.
At the one extreme, we've seen LPA's insist that illegally demolished heritage assets are rebuilt brick-for-brick (and in that case it wasn't even listed!). At the other extreme, certainly there are instances when the decision is taken that a listed building cannot realistically be saved and no statutory enforcement is pursued....Deciding which of the available powers to employ and in what combination will always depend on individual circumstances and the professional judgment of the local planning authority.
Elderly said:
...[rant about wall]...
Like the others, I also agree that the Conservation Officer knew what they were doing. Who cares what Natural England thinks when it comes to historic buildings anyway, they're an environment protection agency! The listing system is there specifically to prevent the idiocy which was about to be unleashed in your story and much more than a rant about the workings of the mind of a belligerent conservation officer, it's the perfect anecdote to illustrate the reason for their existence in the first place!QuickQuack said:
...it's the perfect anecdote to illustrate the reason for their existence in the first place!
As so often with the planning system, and indeed life in general, if you're convinced that everyone around you is a congenital idiot, it sometimes pays to stand back and review your perspective.Even my own anecdote about the mad Sheep Woman has a twist in the tale. This is the site as currently shown on Google Maps:
A dozen years on and clearly, our strategy of using a management company to strimmer down the vegetation a few times a year isn't working. She was probably quite correct in stating that sheep would have done the best job, even if I still can't see any practical and cost-effective way of making that happen.
Equus said:
As so often with the planning system, and indeed life in general, if you're convinced that everyone around you is a congenital idiot, it sometimes pays to stand back and review your perspective.Even my own anecdote about the mad Sheep Woman has a twist in the tale. This is the site as currently shown on Google Maps:
A dozen years on and clearly, our strategy of using a management company to strimmer down the vegetation a few times a year isn't working. She was probably quite correct in stating that sheep would have done the best job, even if I still can't see any practical and cost-effective way of making that happen.
A huge thank you to everyone who has sent me messages. This is just a generic thanks and I will get back to each one of you individually. You have all been a million more helpful than the people of Torbay!
Interesting responses from different experiences of HE. Just what I needed!
If anyone has more experiences please share
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