Help me object to a new care home being built next door

[rich350z]

Equus said:

There's no reason he shouldn't answer, assuming he has actually formed an opinion already (but do bear in mind that many Planners like to simply collate all the information they can, including statutory consultee and public responses, before they even so much as look at the plans, so it's possible that he genuinely hasn't formed an opinion yet).

Also bear in mind that he'll have a Team Leader, who he will sit down and review the application with before finalising his recommendation, and quite often the Team Leader's views will differ, or influence the Case Officer. And Staututory Consultee responses also carry a lot of weight, and he may not know what those are yet... so he will probably be reluctant to commit himself too firmly, at this stage, even if he does have views of his own.

But in due course, he'll be writing an 'Officer Report', which will give his recommendation on whether to approve or not, and set out in considerable detail his reasoning behind that recommendation. This is a public document; there for everyone to see.

Ok, thank you that makes sense, this is all new to me.

[blueg33]

rich350z said:

blueg33 said:

To be honest the proposal is pretty good use of the site and overall a much better design than the existing care home.

I think that is you really want to object, you focus on the massing of the front elevation as that is considerably bigger the the existing development and out of keeping with the character of the rest of the road by virtue of its size. The separation distances between the windows on the development and neighbor's habitable rooms look to be acceptable under the planning policies.

Having said that, as a developer of retirement living, supported living and care homes, I would have done much the same design and would be confident of getting consent. (In 20 developments pa for the last 5 years we have only had 1 refusal).

At 58 bedrooms the economic model for a care home is barely viable, you are lucky that they haven't done more on the second floor.

I currently have an application running in York on a similar type of road (not this one). Our massing is similar and officers support the proposal.

Thanks for your reply.

I've a couple of questions though if you don't mind. One thing that i had thought of already is the 2nd floor; I know you can't predict what the developer is thinking, but with them using the second floor at the front of the building and the ridge height being the same all along the building, what is to stop them from putting a couple of Velux's in the rest of it and then using this space later?

I'm meeting the planning officer here tomorrow, is it as simple as asking him directly if he supports it or not? Will they answer, or do you know because this is what you are paid to 'know'?

Thanks

I doubt they would put in a couple of velux windows and then use the top floor, but if they did it makes no difference to the building but could impact on parking. Note, with these buildings parking is always for staff and visitors, residents of a care home rarely have cars.

Yes ask the officer, he will probably tell you his initial thoughts. My guess is he will be supportive as the applicant will have submitted these plans based on a pre app meeting.

The more I look at it the more I like the design. It’s relatively premium so I guess it will be a high end care home. The stuff we build is a lot less attractive, but ours are for poor people so we don’t have the budget. Housing benefit doesn’t pay for fancy architecture.

[quinny100]

Mention your concerns regarding potential use of the second floor to the officer and in your comments. This is something that could easily be controlled by condition.

I can see why you’re concerned, but I’m struggling to find anything that could be seriously used as an objection. It’s a fairly well designed scheme and they have sought to limit the impact on your property in the design. The existing development is pretty crap aesthetically and apart from the immediate neighbours this scheme is an improvement over what’s already there.

The question for the Planning Officer is does the development have an unacceptable impact. Unacceptable is subjective, but this scheme looks to meet the requirements of the usual planning tests around separation distances etc and your case is limited because it’s to the side. Overlooking a garden at that distance isn’t going to be anything like enough to justify a refusal.

Rather than a flat out objection, you may be better trying to engage with the officer to suggest amendments to the scheme to minimise impact. Perhaps some additional planting along the boundary with your garden, although it’ll take a few years to establish. Ask the officer to condition a scheme for the exterior lighting to ensure it’s properly designed. It may also be worth contacting your local Councillor(s) as they may be on or be able to influence the committee who will make the decision based on the officer’s report.

Edited by quinny100 on Friday 18th January 08:23

[Equus]

quinny100 said:

Perhaps some additional planting along the boundary with your garden, although it’ll take a few years to establish.

Although bear in mind that it's the southern boundary of the OP's garden, so any substantial planting (and it would need to be substantial, to block the view from 1st floor windows) will throw shade in that direction.

And don't come back to us whining in 10 years time because you've got overhanging branches, or trees dropping leaves on your garden.

Edited by Equus on Thursday 20th August 01:22

[rich350z]

Equus]uinny100 said:

Perhaps some additional planting along the boundary with your garden, although it’ll take a few years to establish.[quote]
Although bear in mind that it's the southern boundary of the OP's garden, so any substantial planting (and it would need to be substantial, to block the view form 1st floor windows) will throw shade in that direction.

And don't come back to us whining in 10 years time because you've got overhanging branches, or trees dropping leaves on your garden.

Ha

[rich350z]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated.

Does any one have any incite as to whether the fact that a similar application just down the same road was rejected?

https://planningaccess.york.gov.uk/online-applicat...

[Equus]

rich350z said:

Does any one have any incite insight as to whether the fact that a similar application just down the same road was rejected?

That refusal was upheld at appeal, so you have an appeal inspector's report, which is as good and detailed an explanation as it gets.

From a very brief skim through the Inspector's report, it boils down to the issues of scale and massing that blueg33 has already suggested for your objection (exacerbated in this case because the Appeal Inspector, rightly or wrongly, decided that the site affects the setting of a nearby Conservation Area) plus the fact that in that instance, site constraints forced the parking area into a position immediately to the rear of private garden areas on a couple of existing dwellings, and the disturbance from this was felt to be detrimental.

I've come across Karen McCabe (the Appeal Inspector on that scheme) before - she's relatively 'anti-development' by Appeals Inspectorate standards, and I think has taken a fairly harsh view in this case, too.

Edited by Equus on Friday 18th January 10:22

[rich350z]

So if anyone is interested here's a bit of an update to all this.

The original plans above were withdrawn as I believe they weren't going to be passed due to its size. The new plans submitted reduced the hight by about 500mm and width by 1m, so not enough to be too pleased about.

The planning officer has now recommended it for approval and it goes to committee tomorrow.

Not that I expect it to make any difference but I am due to speak (via zoom) in opposition to it at the meeting.

The thing that's niggling me is, what if its turned down. With the soon to be introduced new planning regulations, as its an empty commercial building, could we infact end up with a lot of homes being built on the site without the need for them to go through planning?

Is it a case of better the devil you know...

Any one got a crystal ball?

[Equus]

rich350z said:

The thing that's niggling me is, what if its turned down. With the soon to be introduced new planning regulations, as its an empty commercial building, could we infact end up with a lot of homes being built on the site without the need for them to go through planning?

If it's going to Committee with a recommendation of approval, then it's more likely to go simply go to appeal if the committee refuses it.

Having said which, all my Care Home clients are emailing me asking how they go about changing their care homes to flats or HMO's, 'cos apparently the arse has just fallen out of their business model, with Covid; so conversion of the existing building to flats is far from impossible, regardless of the outcome of the application.

[rich350z]

Equus said:

If it's going to Committee with a recommendation of approval, then it's more likely to go simply go to appeal if the committee refuses it.

Having said which, all my Care Home clients are emailing me asking how they go about changing their care homes to flats or HMO's, 'cos apparently the arse has just fallen out of their business model, with Covid; so conversion of the existing building to flats is far from impossible, regardless of the outcome of the application.

Ah OK. Once again, thanks for the information.

[blueg33]

Equus said:

rich350z said:

The thing that's niggling me is, what if its turned down. With the soon to be introduced new planning regulations, as its an empty commercial building, could we infact end up with a lot of homes being built on the site without the need for them to go through planning?

If it's going to Committee with a recommendation of approval, then it's more likely to go simply go to appeal if the committee refuses it.

Having said which, all my Care Home clients are emailing me asking how they go about changing their care homes to flats or HMO's, 'cos apparently the arse has just fallen out of their business model, with Covid; so conversion of the existing building to flats is far from impossible, regardless of the outcome of the application.

New build elderly care is moving faster towards extra care apartments following Covid. We have at least 3 new clients in the last 2 weeks wanting us to deliver that type of development.