Balau decking problems after 6 months
Discussion
They didn't stand a chance sat in water.
If you take the whole lot up, turn it over and leave it the cupping will relax back, but then you've got all the other issues to contend with.
When you put wood in a garden you have to ask yourself is it worth the risk, do you want the maintenance, the fact it'll look shabby after a while and the limited life it offers? Personally it's no to all hence why i've got reclaimed stone walls and a black limestone (looks like blue slate) patio, they're natural materials so sit well in their environment like wood does. I won't ever need to do anything to it and unless someone digs it up it'll be there for a long time after i've gone too. I've even sourced some slabs of stone for a table and seats, whenever we want to sit on them we'll take a cushion out to use.
I come from a timber trades background so spent many years tearing up rotten wood, burning it, sending it for landfill and thinking 'what a waste' hence why I think the way I do now and just wanting an easy life, this means more to me than having the latest trend.
Our environment here is damp and it's getting worse by the year.
If you take the whole lot up, turn it over and leave it the cupping will relax back, but then you've got all the other issues to contend with.
When you put wood in a garden you have to ask yourself is it worth the risk, do you want the maintenance, the fact it'll look shabby after a while and the limited life it offers? Personally it's no to all hence why i've got reclaimed stone walls and a black limestone (looks like blue slate) patio, they're natural materials so sit well in their environment like wood does. I won't ever need to do anything to it and unless someone digs it up it'll be there for a long time after i've gone too. I've even sourced some slabs of stone for a table and seats, whenever we want to sit on them we'll take a cushion out to use.
I come from a timber trades background so spent many years tearing up rotten wood, burning it, sending it for landfill and thinking 'what a waste' hence why I think the way I do now and just wanting an easy life, this means more to me than having the latest trend.
Our environment here is damp and it's getting worse by the year.
Update about this..
So had the decking installer over a week or so ago. I told him about the issues and that I'd research the issue that the membrane was at fault, holding moisture. Both from this forum has the suppliers stated this is the issue.
He asked for some time to check and come back. He wrote me a long email today saying that he would remove the membrane and reposition and use stainless steel screws as apposed to carbon originally. And then see how things go. He even checked with other installations that he put the membrane above the joists and they seemed fine BUT it appears he has only used softwood or oak in the past not balau. He couldn't understand that balau which is supposed to be stronger hardwood had warped.
I guess if it's a day or two work to try this and see how it goes. I'd rather not have too much work on it as it's in daily use at this time of year by our kids.
So considering going back to him to do this and then around autumn see if there is any difference.
What do people think? Thanks
So had the decking installer over a week or so ago. I told him about the issues and that I'd research the issue that the membrane was at fault, holding moisture. Both from this forum has the suppliers stated this is the issue.
He asked for some time to check and come back. He wrote me a long email today saying that he would remove the membrane and reposition and use stainless steel screws as apposed to carbon originally. And then see how things go. He even checked with other installations that he put the membrane above the joists and they seemed fine BUT it appears he has only used softwood or oak in the past not balau. He couldn't understand that balau which is supposed to be stronger hardwood had warped.
I guess if it's a day or two work to try this and see how it goes. I'd rather not have too much work on it as it's in daily use at this time of year by our kids.
So considering going back to him to do this and then around autumn see if there is any difference.
What do people think? Thanks
48k said:
Replacing screws in warped wood isn't going to unwarp it. What is he proposing to do about the wood itself? I know it's easy to say across the internet but I'd be pushing for a replacement.
Yeah true, he said that he wasnt willing to replace all boards as it would cost too much but just the ones that were warped. Trouble is if we do that now it will look a mess as theyve now gone grey. So perhaps in the autumn then can start replacing boards.Thanks
PositronicRay said:
What's the point of the membrane? I've built a couple of decks and not bothered, seems fine.
Just to prevent weeds coming through. Theres a load of debris from the old patio stones and the membrane is directly below the board. So no air flow. I`ve asked for the membrane to be put on the ground and i`ll ask the debris is removed so there is air flow.
Pj1972 said:
Yeah true, he said that he wasnt willing to replace all boards as it would cost too much but just the ones that were warped. Trouble is if we do that now it will look a mess as theyve now gone grey. So perhaps in the autumn then can start replacing boards.
Thanks
Honestly, that's just tough, he should have done the job properly in the first place and it's not for you to compromise on what he'd agreed to do just so he's not left in a hole. This is just part and parcel of managing risk in a business. If he's not prepared to fix the job properly, then refund and find someone else to do the job properly. Thanks
The wood is essentially firewood now as a result of his negligence, so I would insist that it's all replaced or it's refunded and take it from there.
paulrockliffe said:
Honestly, that's just tough, he should have done the job properly in the first place and it's not for you to compromise on what he'd agreed to do just so he's not left in a hole. This is just part and parcel of managing risk in a business. If he's not prepared to fix the job properly, then refund and find someone else to do the job properly.
The wood is essentially firewood now as a result of his negligence, so I would insist that it's all replaced or it's refunded and take it from there.
Yeah, I can understand about asking it to be fully replaced, but also he`s a decent bloke who is a neighbours friend which makes it more difficult, and he mentioned a total replacement could bankrupt him. So i want to give him a chance to try his suggestion. Then progress if we are still not happy the result. I`d say probably about 60m of boards out of about 200m are warped. So one suggestion was to replace the warped and move the good ones to a side and treat them and allow the new boards to grey out before treating them. It does appear its the long boards that are the main issue. The wood is essentially firewood now as a result of his negligence, so I would insist that it's all replaced or it's refunded and take it from there.
He's done a defective job and needs to remedy it properly, put simply. The amount of s
te he's left under the structure alone worries me that he doesn't know what he's doing, then exacerbated by the complete lunacy of putting the membrane between the joists and the boards. There's no airflow and ponding water - never a good mix for wood.
Your subframe isn't going to last in those conditions, never mind the visible boards at the top. I'd wanting him to get on with rectifying asap before the subframe deteriorates and the whole lot needs junking. As it is my guess is you're going to be disagreeing with him about replacement of the surface boards. You want to nip this all in the bud before the lifespan of the whole install is seriously compromised more than it already is, IMHO.
te he's left under the structure alone worries me that he doesn't know what he's doing, then exacerbated by the complete lunacy of putting the membrane between the joists and the boards. There's no airflow and ponding water - never a good mix for wood.Your subframe isn't going to last in those conditions, never mind the visible boards at the top. I'd wanting him to get on with rectifying asap before the subframe deteriorates and the whole lot needs junking. As it is my guess is you're going to be disagreeing with him about replacement of the surface boards. You want to nip this all in the bud before the lifespan of the whole install is seriously compromised more than it already is, IMHO.
Pj1972 said:
I`d say probably about 60m of boards out of about 200m are warped. So one suggestion was to replace the warped and move the good ones to a side and treat them and allow the new boards to grey out before treating them. It does appear its the long boards that are the main issue.
But all of under-structure needs to be redone one way or another. If the boards are relayed and moved you'll find you end up with new screw holes everywhere where the joists don't quite line up. The boards shouldn't have been fixed from above in the first place, those holes are just going to hold water and start to look manky.Fixing this isn't going to bankrupt him, it's a few £k for new wood and he needs to find the time to refit it.
Agree it seems odd to put the membrane where it is, and that it will be stopping the air getting to the underside to allow it to breath and dry out more evenly.
Stainless screws are typically not at strong as standard steel screws, however obviously do not rust the same way. Pros and cons.
Its really fairly unlikely he is going to offer, or you are going to be able to make him, replace the whole lot. If you ask me.
So if he is offering to remove all the timber, move the membrane, and put it all back I would go with that. The warping will reduce and to an extent sort itself as the moisture level becomes more even, and the whole lot will last longer as its not been kept damp ready to rot. While I can see you are concerned, and have found an issue which needs solving, it doesn't actually look that bad to me.
Daniel
Stainless screws are typically not at strong as standard steel screws, however obviously do not rust the same way. Pros and cons.
Its really fairly unlikely he is going to offer, or you are going to be able to make him, replace the whole lot. If you ask me.
So if he is offering to remove all the timber, move the membrane, and put it all back I would go with that. The warping will reduce and to an extent sort itself as the moisture level becomes more even, and the whole lot will last longer as its not been kept damp ready to rot. While I can see you are concerned, and have found an issue which needs solving, it doesn't actually look that bad to me.
Daniel
Pj1972 said:
Yeah, I can understand about asking it to be fully replaced, but also he`s a decent bloke who is a neighbours friend which makes it more difficult, and he mentioned a total replacement could bankrupt him. So i want to give him a chance to try his suggestion. Then progress if we are still not happy the result. I`d say probably about 60m of boards out of about 200m are warped. So one suggestion was to replace the warped and move the good ones to a side and treat them and allow the new boards to grey out before treating them. It does appear its the long boards that are the main issue.
If you go down this route (which reading between the lines you have already subconsciously decided to) then get it in writing from him with a personal guarantee on top (so he cannot walk away from it if he is a ltd co and closes it) that if you are not happy with the result then the whole lot is replaced.This will save you a lot of future stress and ballache.
Herbs said:
If you go down this route (which reading between the lines you have already subconsciously decided to) then get it in writing from him with a personal guarantee on top (so he cannot walk away from it if he is a ltd co and closes it) that if you are not happy with the result then the whole lot is replaced.
Good luck with that. dhutch said:
Herbs said:
If you go down this route (which reading between the lines you have already subconsciously decided to) then get it in writing from him with a personal guarantee on top (so he cannot walk away from it if he is a ltd co and closes it) that if you are not happy with the result then the whole lot is replaced.
Good luck with that. I think the best bet is:
- decking up, membrane up
- remove material between frame
- membrane in under the frame
- put the decking back down
There will be no issue with there being additional screw holes in the framework, but it may need some work to re-support it once the earth and been lowered to below the bottom of it.
Without getting into the ethics of using tropical hardwood for decking in the first place, condemning it to scrap after only 6months is not something that should be taken lightly.
If a few additional bits are needed put them at one end and in a years time they will have weathered near enough I would expect.
- decking up, membrane up
- remove material between frame
- membrane in under the frame
- put the decking back down
There will be no issue with there being additional screw holes in the framework, but it may need some work to re-support it once the earth and been lowered to below the bottom of it.
Without getting into the ethics of using tropical hardwood for decking in the first place, condemning it to scrap after only 6months is not something that should be taken lightly.
If a few additional bits are needed put them at one end and in a years time they will have weathered near enough I would expect.
- Qualifier. I am not an decking expert, but have done enough plenty of diy and woodwork.
I think the big task is getting everything up to get the membrane under the framework. You'll probably find that is rotting due to not being under the membrane!
The wood will never go back to normal so needs replacing.
He should have insurance. Ask him what his excess is and offer to pay it. That seems to be the big thing with tradesman is their excess stops them from claiming. It could be as little as £300 which is very small considering what this is going to cost to repair.
The wood will never go back to normal so needs replacing.
He should have insurance. Ask him what his excess is and offer to pay it. That seems to be the big thing with tradesman is their excess stops them from claiming. It could be as little as £300 which is very small considering what this is going to cost to repair.
Edited by ashleyman on Tuesday 25th June 13:39
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