Balau decking problems after 6 months

[Herbs]

dhutch said:

I think the best bet is:
- decking up, membrane up
- remove material between frame
- membrane in under the frame
- put the decking back down

There will be no issue with there being additional screw holes in the framework, but it may need some work to re-support it once the earth and been lowered to below the bottom of it.

Without getting into the ethics of using tropical hardwood for decking in the first place, condemning it to scrap after only 6months is not something that should be taken lightly.

If a few additional bits are needed put them at one end and in a years time they will have weathered near enough I would expect.

• Qualifier. I am not an decking expert, but have done enough plenty of diy and woodwork.

Daniel

You have some good points but there is one critical area - he has paid good money for this to be done for him and it should be correct.

I'd agree with you 100% if he had self installed it.

[48k]

Mammasaid said:

If he's a decent bloke, then he'll have Professional Indemnity Insurance which he can then claim against.

PI insurance is to cover your legal fees if you do something incompetant and taken to court its not there to pay for your incompetance to be fixed.

[anonymous-user]

You are all missing the point. It's a mate's mate, so the OP doesnt' feel inclined to get all medieval on his ass. And I suspect the OP feels he got "mates rates" on the labour, so less inclined to go all pulp fiction.

The problem has been identified, and now its a case of fixing it. How the OP goes about that is neither here nor there.

Job done on here I'd say.

[dhutch]

Indeed. And even if you pay good money for something it doesn't mean you get it, are entitled to it, or that its a sensible thing to have.

Obviously having shelled out plenty for something nice, your going to be well peeved it you dont get at least something close. But equally if you have paid a friends-friend mates-rates without looking at their other work its a risk and you also dont want to loose friends of a bit of cupping on a deck.

There is no way the frame (treated softwood, presumably) will be rotten after 6months, so we can stomp that out. And the cupping will reduce if the back face is dried out (or the front wetted though). So sorting out the installation so you have earth, membrane, air space, frame work, decking, makes sense.


Daniel

[V8RX7]

I would mention that IMO it very much depends whether you agreed to his original design, who supplied the materials and how much was charged for labour.

I pay circa £120-150 / day and I know I would be very unlikely to get any remedial work for free.

If you pay a company substantially more then IME you (generally) have more come back.

Some want to pay the least and expect the most and that rarely works out

[Pj1972]

dhutch said:

Indeed. And even if you pay good money for something it doesn't mean you get it, are entitled to it, or that its a sensible thing to have.

Obviously having shelled out plenty for something nice, your going to be well peeved it you dont get at least something close. But equally if you have paid a friends-friend mates-rates without looking at their other work its a risk and you also dont want to loose friends of a bit of cupping on a deck.

There is no way the frame (treated softwood, presumably) will be rotten after 6months, so we can stomp that out. And the cupping will reduce if the back face is dried out (or the front wetted though). So sorting out the installation so you have earth, membrane, air space, frame work, decking, makes sense.


Daniel

No i didnt get mates rates , i had 3 other quotes and they were all similar. I`d been recommended him, seen his work and thought he`s a decent bloke so gave him the job. Unforgettably it looks like he followed the advice of the supplier in what screws to use, and used the membrane as he has done in previous softwood jobs, not realising that balau would start warping and snapping screws. Major lesson learnt there.

[rsbmw]

I can't see a single reason to put membrane above frame regardless of wood used.

[ashleyman]

rsbmw said:

I can't see a single reason to put membrane above frame regardless of wood used.

Exactly.

It should always be ground, membrane, frame then your chosen decking finish.

[Pj1972]

I asked him about it and he said he`d always done it that way, the the membrane below the deck, I commented that maybe it was reducing the lifespan of the joists. Hes gone away and checked at other customers jobs by removing a board and said there wasn't any sign of rot.

[highandhappy]

No expert , but I had the same issue with Balau cupping on a deck I built.

No membrane issue and plenty of airflow , perhaps 30cm drop to the underlying ground. My boards were smooth both sides and as that cupped it snapped lots of screws (special decking screws)
I had built myself so no one to get back, just ended up adding in loads of new screws where needed, which did look awful. Clearly where they snap you cant put a new screw down the hole.

No real idea what caused the cupping, but 100% wasn't related to standing water. The wood was very active , gaps opened and then closed with seasons. Really was a pain in the arse , looked great originally

So possibly the removal of the membrane wont solve your issues

[Pj1972]

highandhappy said:

No expert , but I had the same issue with Balau cupping on a deck I built.

No membrane issue and plenty of airflow , perhaps 30cm drop to the underlying ground. My boards were smooth both sides and as that cupped it snapped lots of screws (special decking screws)
I had built myself so no one to get back, just ended up adding in loads of new screws where needed, which did look awful. Clearly where they snap you cant put a new screw down the hole.

No real idea what caused the cupping, but 100% wasn't related to standing water. The wood was very active , gaps opened and then closed with seasons. Really was a pain in the arse , looked great originally

So possibly the removal of the membrane wont solve your issues

Interesting, Can I ask what spacing you used for the screws, and if you can remember what type? Ours was done with timbadeck

[highandhappy]

I cant recall exact screws , but the ones you linked look familiar (the ones I had, used a square head, special bit)

spacing was based in the sub frame , from memory 10 screws (5 rows of a pair) in the longer boards. The cupping looked very similar to yours (as in the degrees of movement)
Extra screws held in place , but didn't resolve cupping. Re movement, boards would go from mm gaps one season so opening up to 25mm.

Was never happy considering how much the wood cost

[Pj1972]

highandhappy said:

I cant recall exact screws , but the ones you linked look familiar (the ones I had, used a square head, special bit)

spacing was based in the sub frame , from memory 10 screws (5 rows of a pair) in the longer boards. The cupping looked very similar to yours (as in the degrees of movement)
Extra screws held in place , but didn't resolve cupping. Re movement, boards would go from mm gaps one season so opening up to 25mm.

Was never happy considering how much the wood cost

ok thanks, i measure ours are about 70mm spacing on the long boards and one website suggests 30mm spacing. The shorter boards are probably about 50cm spacing and they arent too bad, only a few have warped compared to the longer boards.
I`m not too keen on these types of screws, now i`ve done research i see you can hidden jig system where it screws at and angle into the sides, and also smaller headed screws. I think our installer argued against those as he said you`d never find them again once the wood expands around them if you need to get them out and lift the decking later,

[dhutch]

You will always get some cupping, based in which way up the board is and how's it's been cut, as the timber dries after cutting.

I also see no reason why the wood used would effect where you out the membrane, I think he has just got lucky in the past. Treated softwood should do ten years, you won't get rot for years even if it halves the life.

Taking it all off and putting it back will mean the new screws will miss the old snapped ones when out down the old holes in the boards.


Daniel

[highandhappy]

well good luck with it , again the hardness and movement was always an issue for me.

I dont live in that place anymore , 100% would not use Balau again, infact given the choice I would put down a decent patio (some natural stone etc)

[sidekickdmr]

Just to counter the above, we put yellow Balau down from Silva timber on our treehouse deck, been down about 14 months now and despite being a damp woodland, they have been great, and much much nicer than softwood.

Also doesn't pick up the algae either as its a tighter compound.

[healeyfan]

I built my balau deck 12 years ago. Just recently taken it all up as the subframe, treated softwood, had rotted out. The balau was fine. It does have a tendency to warp and snap screws though. The long boards, which seem to be the main culprit, should be anchored at least every 40cm but I did 30 when I replaced it because I could. Built the subframe this time from oak on a weed inhibiting membrane and covered the framework with rolls of DPM ( brickwork). Sanded the original boards and oiled it with Oswatrol. Looks as good as new. Hopefully should last for more than another 12 years. Yes I will have to replace screws from time to time but the holes soon become invisible.
Balau is super strong, does not rot and should last a lifetime. Probably why it's so damned expensive!