5.5m x 5.4m garage. Too small?
Discussion
Composite Guru said:
It’s an old promo poster for Jaguar Racing when Eddie & Jonny raced down Broadway. I worked for Stewart, Jag Racing and now Red Bull.
I have this on the wall too.
Very nice. I have this on the wall too.
Edited by Composite Guru on Friday 29th November 21:37
Given (Red Bull) have you had the opportunity to house (even if one night) some very special exotica next to the lovely Lotus?
Welshbeef said:
Composite Guru said:
It’s an old promo poster for Jaguar Racing when Eddie & Jonny raced down Broadway. I worked for Stewart, Jag Racing and now Red Bull.
I have this on the wall too.
Very nice. I have this on the wall too.
Edited by Composite Guru on Friday 29th November 21:37
Given (Red Bull) have you had the opportunity to house (even if one night) some very special exotica next to the lovely Lotus?
Apologies for the thread hijack OP.
Edited by Composite Guru on Friday 29th November 23:21
Go with option B and get a new engineer. Just because they have letters after their name does not mean they have relevant knowledge or experience for your situation. If they are unsure they will err on the side of safety, at your expense. As stated piled foundations for a garage would be highly specific, really only if you were surrounded by trees with TPO or really poor subsoil like deep made up ground.
My architect recommended a structural engineer for my roof design which was laughed at by my builder and the BCO, it was so ridiculously over-engineered. It turned out later he’d never designed a cut roof, only trussed ones (where the truss supplier does all the calculations).
Of course I still got a hefty bill from the guy for his learning experience.
My architect recommended a structural engineer for my roof design which was laughed at by my builder and the BCO, it was so ridiculously over-engineered. It turned out later he’d never designed a cut roof, only trussed ones (where the truss supplier does all the calculations).
Of course I still got a hefty bill from the guy for his learning experience.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Shouldn't you be consulting another engineer rather than canvassing opinions on something you don't want?
.
I am doing exactly as you suggest. .
As I mentioned in my OP (see 'B' ), the second engineer is reported to be more pragmatic than the first. I'm just testing the water for the worst case scenario.
Our garage is approx 5.5m x 5m IIRC, and it's well suited for one car but fitting a second in there is a real squeeze.
You need to head to toe it for opening doors & I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis.
That also assumes no racking or other items stored in there.
Gotta do it properly & go bigger. You will always look like back & wince if you don't.
You need to head to toe it for opening doors & I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis.
That also assumes no racking or other items stored in there.
Gotta do it properly & go bigger. You will always look like back & wince if you don't.
Edited by Andeh1 on Thursday 7th May 11:29
Blib said:
paulwirral said:
Option b
My preferred option.The car in question is a Westfield and I am sure you could get a second in without the work bench, but two modern cars might need creative us of the bool lid or sunroof!
Daniel
The garage at my old place was ~5.5m x 5.5m inside. It was mostly fine, particularly when I had a Westfield, but given I had tools, bikes etc in there as well it did become a bit of a squeeze at times.
The main issue for me was when I wanted to work on anything modern - to get enough access and light I invariably ended up with half the car hanging out of the door, and the doorway was narrow enough to make jacking anything up a bit of a nervy exercise!
Given your intended use you'll be fine for two classics, but I'd certainly advise going bigger if you can. If nothing else, it gives you more flexibility to work on big stuff if you ever find you need to
I'm currently scoping a garage for my new place, which will be a 7.3m x 7.3m double with much wider doors...
The main issue for me was when I wanted to work on anything modern - to get enough access and light I invariably ended up with half the car hanging out of the door, and the doorway was narrow enough to make jacking anything up a bit of a nervy exercise!
Given your intended use you'll be fine for two classics, but I'd certainly advise going bigger if you can. If nothing else, it gives you more flexibility to work on big stuff if you ever find you need to
I'm currently scoping a garage for my new place, which will be a 7.3m x 7.3m double with much wider doors...
I've been looking at knocking our large single garage down and replacing with something bigger. I came to the conclusion that I'd be looking at 6m x 6m to provide a bit of space for kit and to move around once both cars are in. It might be possible on lesser dimensions but if you're building from scratch you don't want to scrimp and regret it.
Both our cars are circa 5m long and modern cars are so much wider than even 20 years ago as that Volvo shows. Appreciate this isn't your current concern given the cars you noted but you've got to keep half a mind on resale.
Both our cars are circa 5m long and modern cars are so much wider than even 20 years ago as that Volvo shows. Appreciate this isn't your current concern given the cars you noted but you've got to keep half a mind on resale.
Blib said:
Yes, you're right. Ive decided that the smaller garage is a non starter.
So, to raft or to pile? It could make several thousands of pounds difference.
Watch this space.
Anyone who says to pile would need to justify exactly why it is required.So, to raft or to pile? It could make several thousands of pounds difference.
Watch this space.
If time is not critical then you could dig for strip foundations to find out exactly what you're dealing with below ground and then take the advice of the BCO.
PhilboSE said:
Blib said:
Yes, you're right. Ive decided that the smaller garage is a non starter.
So, to raft or to pile? It could make several thousands of pounds difference.
Watch this space.
Anyone who says to pile would need to justify exactly why it is required.So, to raft or to pile? It could make several thousands of pounds difference.
Watch this space.
If time is not critical then you could dig for strip foundations to find out exactly what you're dealing with below ground and then take the advice of the BCO.
A lot of it is because they don't know what is below ground. Even on obviously virgin ground you don't know how deep the soil is until you hit something you can build off. In many areas there can be "made up ground" (i.e. previously developed, and turned over, making it less dense) or if there are tree roots in the area (and you don't want to kill the trees) then the engineers need to come up with a solution.
Given that most builders will want building control agreed plans to cost from, the engineer will design something that he knows will hit the numbers and expects to work on site. If he is unsure about the ground for the footings then piles reduce the risk, but increases the build costs. The engineer won't want to give you plans for strip foundations and then redo the calculations for piles because the client would reasonably assert this should be at the engineer's cost. So they protect themselves by overengineering the solution which won't cost them any more time/money but it could impact you. But they don't care about that.
To overcome this you can dig exploratory trenches or holes to sample what you have. The downside is that you have to get a builder onsite to do the exploratory work, then you have a mess for some months while the engineer designs something based on the findings and then submits then plans for buildings control signoff and then the builders have some concrete facts to do their costings.
If you can afford the time delay and the mess then I would advocate doing some sampling as it reduces one of the big uncertainties in the build (what exactly is hidden below ground). But if time is of the essence, and you want to get some structural plans done now for immediate costing by builders, leading to a quick decision and starting the build, then the engineer may want to err on the side of caution on the design.
But footings are relatively easy things to react to when you get into the ground, and my experience is that most engineers will assume strip foundations are viable (especially for a garage build) unless there is strong evidence that piles are required, and if they can't justify why they assert piles are required then it's definitely time for a new engineer.
Given that most builders will want building control agreed plans to cost from, the engineer will design something that he knows will hit the numbers and expects to work on site. If he is unsure about the ground for the footings then piles reduce the risk, but increases the build costs. The engineer won't want to give you plans for strip foundations and then redo the calculations for piles because the client would reasonably assert this should be at the engineer's cost. So they protect themselves by overengineering the solution which won't cost them any more time/money but it could impact you. But they don't care about that.
To overcome this you can dig exploratory trenches or holes to sample what you have. The downside is that you have to get a builder onsite to do the exploratory work, then you have a mess for some months while the engineer designs something based on the findings and then submits then plans for buildings control signoff and then the builders have some concrete facts to do their costings.
If you can afford the time delay and the mess then I would advocate doing some sampling as it reduces one of the big uncertainties in the build (what exactly is hidden below ground). But if time is of the essence, and you want to get some structural plans done now for immediate costing by builders, leading to a quick decision and starting the build, then the engineer may want to err on the side of caution on the design.
But footings are relatively easy things to react to when you get into the ground, and my experience is that most engineers will assume strip foundations are viable (especially for a garage build) unless there is strong evidence that piles are required, and if they can't justify why they assert piles are required then it's definitely time for a new engineer.
Trying to get a 3 bay (9.7m wide by 7.2m deep) through plkaning but been rejected. The original 4 bay was also rejected but 3 bay is as small as we are willing to go. Currently going through appeal.
Wanted a 4 post lift in 2 of the bays (for storage) and a 2 post in the other so I can work on the cars. Plus plenty around the outside for other storage.
FFG
Wanted a 4 post lift in 2 of the bays (for storage) and a 2 post in the other so I can work on the cars. Plus plenty around the outside for other storage.
FFG
Rejected on what grounds?
I've just finished building something similar (9.5m x 6.8m triple garage). It's adequately big but not cavernous, but I was constrained by the site. I made the middle door extra wide to add some interest to the garage and accommodate anything particularly exotic.
My advice with a garage, based on this experience, is to decide on the doors very early on. Don't assume that you can design some openings and doors will fit. Understand the different attributes of up and over, sectional, roller and hinged doors, and the impact on drive through width. I found choosing the doors to be the most difficult thing because there isn't a simple decision tree that anyone publishes - you have to do a lot of your own research. Happy to pass on my findings if that is of any use.
I've just finished building something similar (9.5m x 6.8m triple garage). It's adequately big but not cavernous, but I was constrained by the site. I made the middle door extra wide to add some interest to the garage and accommodate anything particularly exotic.
My advice with a garage, based on this experience, is to decide on the doors very early on. Don't assume that you can design some openings and doors will fit. Understand the different attributes of up and over, sectional, roller and hinged doors, and the impact on drive through width. I found choosing the doors to be the most difficult thing because there isn't a simple decision tree that anyone publishes - you have to do a lot of your own research. Happy to pass on my findings if that is of any use.
@PhilboSE.
Thank you for your post. I'll ask the architect to check with the original engineer about why he went with piles.
Sadly, we are rather time constrained. Mrs B. has grand plans for the garden. The landscapers cannot begin their work until the garage is almost complete. There is a complicated planting plan waiting to go. I'm already on notice as weve missed the autumn tree planting window (who knew).
Waiting for months while we test more soil is NOT an option
Thank you for your post. I'll ask the architect to check with the original engineer about why he went with piles.
Sadly, we are rather time constrained. Mrs B. has grand plans for the garden. The landscapers cannot begin their work until the garage is almost complete. There is a complicated planting plan waiting to go. I'm already on notice as weve missed the autumn tree planting window (who knew).
Waiting for months while we test more soil is NOT an option
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