How do you deal with really rude builder?
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
It’s just a particular type of bloke. It doesn’t matter whether you’re particularly short, of non who’re skin, or well spoken etc etc, they will just have the view that they are superior and that also you are part of the group who are holding them down which gives them that classic chip as well.
Frankly, they are the type of bloke that once you punch them in the face they will be your beat friend forever as they settle into a comfortable beta Male position.
And with tradesfolk they often manage to combine this with being tooth suckers at the same time.
You either have to just let it go and rationalise that these are the ‘little’ men who you have to deal with every so often or you you need to look them in the eye and ask them plainly what they are playing at.
The problem is that once you let the first passive aggressive comment pass it sets the die and releases them. I would suggest that going forward you learn to simply say ‘pardon?’ when one of these schmucks cross your path again and when they rephrase their remark to be polite (which they will because they have two languages, one for people they respect and another for the ones they don’t) you simply reply ‘That’s better’ while keeping eye contact.
Builders are normally pretty coarse just by nature of the job they do. So am I, and I'm not a builder. Frankly, they are the type of bloke that once you punch them in the face they will be your beat friend forever as they settle into a comfortable beta Male position.
And with tradesfolk they often manage to combine this with being tooth suckers at the same time.
You either have to just let it go and rationalise that these are the ‘little’ men who you have to deal with every so often or you you need to look them in the eye and ask them plainly what they are playing at.
The problem is that once you let the first passive aggressive comment pass it sets the die and releases them. I would suggest that going forward you learn to simply say ‘pardon?’ when one of these schmucks cross your path again and when they rephrase their remark to be polite (which they will because they have two languages, one for people they respect and another for the ones they don’t) you simply reply ‘That’s better’ while keeping eye contact.
I've had good ones and bad ones. One was building a small brick wall along my driveway, and as I was going out I could tell he was off level already. Did have a spirit level, didn't use it. I pointed it out to him and he said "it'll look fine, just get out and leave me to it - I'm laying the bricks here, not you"
I don't think a "pardon?" quite works in that scenario - I just kept eye contact and said "What the fu
ck did you just say?"He apologised, and as he had only just started part of the second course I told him the bricks were off, it will NOT look fine, and he needed to use a level. It was a cash job and he had only been paid for materials up front and the rest on completion - he started again from scratch and I came home that night to a perfectly laid wall.
So I complimented him, said it looked great, and I'm sorry we got off to a bad start. He was pleased, I was pleased, and he got paid as agreed..
I wouldn't recommend him to anyone who doesn't know a bit, but have used him again a few times and he really puts the effort in and does a great job. Chocolate hobnobs and coffee provided, and a bacon sarnie if I'm in and making one for myself anyway.
ruggedscotty said:
Hoofy said:
If it's more hassle than it's worth, perhaps take the £950 on the chin (he's done most of the work?) and get someone else in but don't pay up front.
I take it your the builder in question......I've had a few trades working for me that waltz in like jockey big balls. Some of them would tell you black was white if you were daft enough to take them seriously.
Trick is to let them know before they start you won't tolerate any bullst or shortcuts and if they don't do a proper job then won't be getting paid.
I had a painter in a few years back he claimed he'd done work for this developer and that businessman, his work was so fking sloppy. So after he did the first bit I told him his standard of work was terrible and I wouldn't be paying him as I could do a lot better myself . In the end he tried to blame the paint.
He did some work for a friend of mine and made a point of tidying up all the rubbish and taking it away with him which he thought was a bit odd. After he'd left the friend discovered he'd taken the expensive lining paper at £20 a roll they'd bought and done the job with value shed stuff at £3 a roll he'd bought.
You have to watch some of them like a hawk.
Trick is to let them know before they start you won't tolerate any bulls
t or shortcuts and if they don't do a proper job then won't be getting paid.I had a painter in a few years back he claimed he'd done work for this developer and that businessman, his work was so f
king sloppy. So after he did the first bit I told him his standard of work was terrible and I wouldn't be paying him as I could do a lot better myself . In the end he tried to blame the paint.He did some work for a friend of mine and made a point of tidying up all the rubbish and taking it away with him which he thought was a bit odd. After he'd left the friend discovered he'd taken the expensive lining paper at £20 a roll they'd bought and done the job with value shed stuff at £3 a roll he'd bought.
You have to watch some of them like a hawk.
Edited by EarlofDrift on Sunday 15th December 02:56
alanyork said:
Hoofy said:
Phew.
Next time ask a neighbour for recommendations.
This is a good idea, Next time ask a neighbour for recommendations.
hotchy said:
alanyork said:
Hoofy said:
Phew.
Next time ask a neighbour for recommendations.
This is a good idea, Next time ask a neighbour for recommendations.
ks them over just because they can. It’s just how some blokes are, they’re behaviour, attitude, honesty is not defined by their own moral compass but controlled and defined by who they are standing in front of.
DonkeyApple said:
It’s just how some blokes are, they’re behaviour, attitude, honesty is not defined by their own moral compass but controlled and defined by who they are standing in front of.
My mate is exactly like that. He’ll take against someone during a job for no reason and do a crap job and piss them right off.Aluminati said:
bmwmike said:
Aluminati said:
What domestics don’t seem to understand, is the internet has made you all an expert in the required field.
.
I think,with respect, that what a few of the trades don't seem to understand is that what they do really isn't all that hard and it doesn't take a genius to work out that they are being ripped off with a crap effort..
EarlofDrift said:
I've had a few trades working for me that waltz in like jockey big balls. Some of them would tell you black was white if you were daft enough to take them seriously.
Trick is to let them know before they start you won't tolerate any bullst or shortcuts and if they don't do a proper job then won't be getting paid.
I had a painter in a few years back he claimed he'd done work for this developer and that businessman, his work was so fking sloppy. So after he did the first bit I told him his standard of work was terrible and I wouldn't be paying him as I could do a lot better myself . In the end he tried to blame the paint.
He did some work for a friend of mine and made a point of tidying up all the rubbish and taking it away with him which he thought was a bit odd. After he'd left the friend discovered he'd taken the expensive lining paper at £20 a roll they'd bought and done the job with value shed stuff at £3 a roll he'd bought.
You have to watch some of them like a hawk.
Indeed you do. Our neighbours had a stove installed and the installer had itemised the quote (which was ludicrous - 3.5k for a pretty run of the mill installation which I did for 700 quid on an identical house).Trick is to let them know before they start you won't tolerate any bulls
t or shortcuts and if they don't do a proper job then won't be getting paid.I had a painter in a few years back he claimed he'd done work for this developer and that businessman, his work was so f
king sloppy. So after he did the first bit I told him his standard of work was terrible and I wouldn't be paying him as I could do a lot better myself . In the end he tried to blame the paint.He did some work for a friend of mine and made a point of tidying up all the rubbish and taking it away with him which he thought was a bit odd. After he'd left the friend discovered he'd taken the expensive lining paper at £20 a roll they'd bought and done the job with value shed stuff at £3 a roll he'd bought.
You have to watch some of them like a hawk.
Edited by EarlofDrift on Sunday 15th December 02:56
I took a look at the he quote and he had put on the quote '316 chimney liner - 16m'.
He would have only turned up in his van with about 10/11m worth because that is how tall the house is from the top of the chimney to the ground floor.
MB140 said:
I’ve not had a lot of experience with the building trade but my brother is a sparky by trade (commercial only hates domestic), he restored his house top to bottom bare shell (built in 1890) when he first bought it. His opinion is that most traders on sites speak like st to each other and this occasionally spills over to customers.
His rule of thumb is.
If there available straight away or very soon then their probably no good. Tradesman that have a good reputation often have long lead times as there always booked up. My brother for example is nearly always booked out 6-9 months in advance.
Dude it’s ‘they’re’. t to each other and this occasionally spills over to customers. His rule of thumb is.
If there available straight away or very soon then their probably no good. Tradesman that have a good reputation often have long lead times as there always booked up. My brother for example is nearly always booked out 6-9 months in advance.
Douglas Quaid said:
Dude it’s ‘they’re’.
Off topic slightly but why do you take the trouble to correct other people's English? Not just you of course there are lots of grammar nazis on the net but it's a bit like pissing in the wind. Why bother? There is no barrier to entry for using the Internet and most people use mobiles' anyway so autocorrect is often to blame rather than the writer thereselfs. Just seems like a wastes of effort. bmwmike said:
Douglas Quaid said:
Dude it’s ‘they’re’.
Off topic slightly but why do you take the trouble to correct other people's English? Not just you of course there are lots of grammar nazis on the net but it's a bit like pissing in the wind. Why bother? There is no barrier to entry for using the Internet and most people use mobiles' anyway so autocorrect is often to blame rather than the writer thereselfs. Just seems like a wastes of effort. I never understand why they waste there time correcting my English. I will happy to say I’m s
t at English. But I’m pretty dam good at maths, science, IT, electrical engineering. I’ve spent 20 years fixing airplanes and not being able to select the correct there, their has never resulted in a crash yet. Some people are good at English. Some good at sport, some good at maths and science etc. I don’t bother correcting people on there mistakes. Life’s two short. ;-)
bmwmike said:
Douglas Quaid said:
Dude it’s ‘they’re’.
Off topic slightly but why do you take the trouble to correct other people's English? Not just you of course there are lots of grammar nazis on the net but it's a bit like pissing in the wind. Why bother? There is no barrier to entry for using the Internet and most people use mobiles' anyway so autocorrect is often to blame rather than the writer thereselfs. Just seems like a wastes of effort. 
bmwmike said:
Aluminati said:
bmwmike said:
Aluminati said:
What domestics don’t seem to understand, is the internet has made you all an expert in the required field.
.
I think,with respect, that what a few of the trades don't seem to understand is that what they do really isn't all that hard and it doesn't take a genius to work out that they are being ripped off with a crap effort..
paulwirral said:
Or maybe they don't have the skills , or the common sense as most building trades are only that . I've been in the trade for more years than a few posters on here have been on this earth and I can count on one hand who I would work for on this website, and one of my fingers doesn't work properly !
These days I only consider folks recommended by someone trusted, either by a tradesman I know is reliable or a previous customer. The problem really comes when you move to a new area.
Luckily we've only had a couple of bad experiences over the years and one tbh wasn't that bad, he was competent at plumbing, just totally out of his depth with central heating. Considering that the only part of that was removing a bathroom panel radiator and replacing with a towel radiator he really was struggling. Having got it sorted by a decent tradesman, who just laughed when he saw it, the decision to clear him off with the least hassle, as advised early in this thread, had been clearly the right one.
The one that really gave us hassle was years back, late 80s, new kitchen, too long a story, job which should have taken a week took from May to September. Supplying incorrect and cheaper worktop, trying to fit a demo oven out of the showroom rather than the ordered one. Just examples of the strokes he tried to pull. Classic example was when he unpacked the hob, by this time I was his nightmare customer looking at fitting instructions. He was just about to start cutting the hole when I told him to stop as he was doing it wrong. Got the condescending reply, then he got shown the instructions which had in red capital letters, "Do not cut the hole like this" and showed exactly the way he was going to do it. In the end again we got out of it as cheaply as possible and he agreed couldn't fulfil all the work agreed. I had last laugh on two occasions.
Firstly, he couldn't even invoice the job properly. Payment agreed was 20% up front, 70% when finished, 10% after 30 days and snagging sorted. Final bill came in for the outstanding 80%, but he'd got the vat element the wrong way round. Taken it off instead of adding it on. As far as we were concerned that covered what we'd had to pay others to sort out the mess and work not completed, so went straight away to pay. Owner sat there in his shop trying to work out what was wrong, but he was looking at an invoice and a building society cheque for the full amount so he accepted it.
Monday we got a phone call from his shop manager pointing out the VAT error and demanded the extra money. Got told to swivel. Anyway we got a letter from them, took it to a solicitor for advice, with a documented timeline of events, with the instruction to the solicitor that if he considered that the best way was to accept we owed this then we would willingly pay it and move on. Next thing copy of a letter saying "my clients are in possession of a receipted VAT invoice saying paid in full, see you in court, oh by the way there will be a counter suit for etc etc." Never heard another thing.
Amazingly there was a final laugh, such an unlikely happenstance it's just too random to be true, but I swear it is. Later that year I was going down the M1 when came up behind said numpty batting down lane 3 with his trailer in tow snaking around behind him. Car behind him flashed to get him out of the way, to receive an arm out the window forked finger salute aloft. Unfortunately for him this was also seen by the rozzers. Karma.
Luckily we've only had a couple of bad experiences over the years and one tbh wasn't that bad, he was competent at plumbing, just totally out of his depth with central heating. Considering that the only part of that was removing a bathroom panel radiator and replacing with a towel radiator he really was struggling. Having got it sorted by a decent tradesman, who just laughed when he saw it, the decision to clear him off with the least hassle, as advised early in this thread, had been clearly the right one.
The one that really gave us hassle was years back, late 80s, new kitchen, too long a story, job which should have taken a week took from May to September. Supplying incorrect and cheaper worktop, trying to fit a demo oven out of the showroom rather than the ordered one. Just examples of the strokes he tried to pull. Classic example was when he unpacked the hob, by this time I was his nightmare customer looking at fitting instructions. He was just about to start cutting the hole when I told him to stop as he was doing it wrong. Got the condescending reply, then he got shown the instructions which had in red capital letters, "Do not cut the hole like this" and showed exactly the way he was going to do it. In the end again we got out of it as cheaply as possible and he agreed couldn't fulfil all the work agreed. I had last laugh on two occasions.
Firstly, he couldn't even invoice the job properly. Payment agreed was 20% up front, 70% when finished, 10% after 30 days and snagging sorted. Final bill came in for the outstanding 80%, but he'd got the vat element the wrong way round. Taken it off instead of adding it on. As far as we were concerned that covered what we'd had to pay others to sort out the mess and work not completed, so went straight away to pay. Owner sat there in his shop trying to work out what was wrong, but he was looking at an invoice and a building society cheque for the full amount so he accepted it.
Monday we got a phone call from his shop manager pointing out the VAT error and demanded the extra money. Got told to swivel. Anyway we got a letter from them, took it to a solicitor for advice, with a documented timeline of events, with the instruction to the solicitor that if he considered that the best way was to accept we owed this then we would willingly pay it and move on. Next thing copy of a letter saying "my clients are in possession of a receipted VAT invoice saying paid in full, see you in court, oh by the way there will be a counter suit for etc etc." Never heard another thing.
Amazingly there was a final laugh, such an unlikely happenstance it's just too random to be true, but I swear it is. Later that year I was going down the M1 when came up behind said numpty batting down lane 3 with his trailer in tow snaking around behind him. Car behind him flashed to get him out of the way, to receive an arm out the window forked finger salute aloft. Unfortunately for him this was also seen by the rozzers. Karma.
bmwmike said:
Everyone needs to know that checkatrade are a scam and utterly useless for verifying the integrity of builders.
Always go with your gut IMO. Easier said than done I know.
I agree, I used cheatrade once, found a roofer that was meant to be great and turned out he was a complete cowboy con man. When I tried to leave a negative review I wasn't allowed unless I went through a hugely convoluted resolution process. I was a disgruntled customer and unable to share my true experiences on this so called impartial website.Always go with your gut IMO. Easier said than done I know.
Checkatrade is a scam and totally sides with the builders. I'll never use it again and warn people of it often.
For good honest referrals I find the local facebook groups are good.
In my experience good tradesmen like to work with other good tradesmen. That's one of my main sources of who to use for a job. For example the spark I use is great and gave me some contact details of a guy who's excellent on bathrooms and he put me in contact with a plasterer who really did a good job.
If people don't turn up/ring back they don't get the job, I never go chasing them.
If people don't turn up/ring back they don't get the job, I never go chasing them.
croissant said:
bmwmike said:
Everyone needs to know that checkatrade are a scam and utterly useless for verifying the integrity of builders.
Always go with your gut IMO. Easier said than done I know.
I agree, I used cheatrade once, found a roofer that was meant to be great and turned out he was a complete cowboy con man. When I tried to leave a negative review I wasn't allowed unless I went through a hugely convoluted resolution process. I was a disgruntled customer and unable to share my true experiences on this so called impartial website.Always go with your gut IMO. Easier said than done I know.
Checkatrade is a scam and totally sides with the builders. I'll never use it again and warn people of it often.
For good honest referrals I find the local facebook groups are good.
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