Water leak issue
Discussion
It looks to me like the drain is either getting blocked or it is actually too small for the amount of water that is collecting in that gulley. Therefore water is overflowing the side wall (hence the staining) but when there is that much water in the gulley it is also finding its way into the house. It could even be coming through the bricks.
Cheapest way to see might be to actually get up there when it is raining heavily, if that is possible, is it accessable by ladder or by looking out of a skylight, or even looking from an adjacent building?
Cheapest way to see might be to actually get up there when it is raining heavily, if that is possible, is it accessable by ladder or by looking out of a skylight, or even looking from an adjacent building?
In the first pic the damp patch seems to be larger nearer the tiles rather than where the water runs off into the drain. Is the fall slightly off causing water to accumulate here after it's been raining? Can you get to that corner inside your loft?
If you look in the pic everything else looks dry but there's a clearly visible damp patch at the end of the gully
If you look in the pic everything else looks dry but there's a clearly visible damp patch at the end of the gully
Edited by Oakey on Saturday 18th January 10:02
Have you actually got a water leak or condensation in the outer corner of the room?
I had a similar issue and on the advice of a builder checked the insulation in the loft.
The loft insulation had not been pushed into the corner and was effectively creating a cold spot, where moisture in the air was condensing.
The loft and ceiling are bone dry.
I rammed insulation in to the corner and turned the radiator up in the room and its been ok so far.
I had a similar issue and on the advice of a builder checked the insulation in the loft.
The loft insulation had not been pushed into the corner and was effectively creating a cold spot, where moisture in the air was condensing.
The loft and ceiling are bone dry.
I rammed insulation in to the corner and turned the radiator up in the room and its been ok so far.
CoolHands said:
I feel like I’ve read this before. Did you post a year or 2 ago? if not you’ve got a twin out there with the same problem.
I did. I was advised to get a roofer. We paid £1200 for a 'repair' which didn't work and the company disappeared off the face of the earth. We then had someone else come and tell us it was a broken roof tile and replaced that, which again hasn't worked. We're £2k deep in 'repairs' and not one of the professionals we've had to the house so far has raised any concern with anything people have raised here about flashings etc.Previous repair quote:
I was hoping to get a roofer over yesterday afternoon, but when I called him around 4pm he said he wasn't able to make it. We had a chat about the situation and he suggested (based on these photos which I'd also sent to him) that the issue could be a lack of a 'tray' under the coping stones. The thing is, he said we don't have this tray at all and yet only one part of the house is experiencing the issue. He said he'd go up to have a look, but he was busy for 'at least the next month'.
Finding someone competent AND available appears to be the biggest challenge.
I got ripped off too by an Irish sort. Once doing the task tried to extend the job to all sorts of other unnecessary stuff. Very difficult to get rid of them and only pay the original agreed price. My advice avoid anyone with even a hint of an Irish accent. Unfortunately roofing seems to attract them, probably cos you can’t check on the standard of their ‘work’
CoolHands said:
I got ripped off too by an Irish sort. Once doing the task tried to extend the job to all sorts of other unnecessary stuff. Very difficult to get rid of them and only pay the original agreed price. My advice avoid anyone with even a hint of an Irish accent. Unfortunately roofing seems to attract them, probably cos you can’t check on the standard of their ‘work’
The guy who did this had a local accent. You get cowboys of every nationality.romeogolf said:
CoolHands said:
I got ripped off too by an Irish sort. Once doing the task tried to extend the job to all sorts of other unnecessary stuff. Very difficult to get rid of them and only pay the original agreed price. My advice avoid anyone with even a hint of an Irish accent. Unfortunately roofing seems to attract them, probably cos you can’t check on the standard of their ‘work’
The guy who did this had a local accent. You get cowboys of every nationality.Good luck
You definitely have to watch out for the gypos. They've been doing the rounds around here lately.
A few months back I had one tinker knock on my door asking if he could quote me for a new front roof as it appeared to be bowing (it wasn't) and absorbing water (it wasn't). In fact the front roof was only a year old at that point and there was nothing wrong with it.
I saw some poor sod over the road had the same bloke power washing his roof not long after. His roof now looks like a patchwork quilt.
A few months back I had one tinker knock on my door asking if he could quote me for a new front roof as it appeared to be bowing (it wasn't) and absorbing water (it wasn't). In fact the front roof was only a year old at that point and there was nothing wrong with it.
I saw some poor sod over the road had the same bloke power washing his roof not long after. His roof now looks like a patchwork quilt.
I think the staining is relevant as this looks like penetrating damp to me from the outer course. Bricks and mortar are porous and so if you have water running down the outside constantly it will eventually come through to the inner course. You can even see how the staining corresponds to the dampness on the inside.
The question is why is water running down like that? It looks like it is running off the flat coping stone. Could something as simple as a bead of builders mastic to encourage it to the roof side solve it? Or have it rebedded so it’s falling inwards? That’s where I would be starting for not a lot of money!
The question is why is water running down like that? It looks like it is running off the flat coping stone. Could something as simple as a bead of builders mastic to encourage it to the roof side solve it? Or have it rebedded so it’s falling inwards? That’s where I would be starting for not a lot of money!
Edited by Deebeezee on Sunday 19th January 09:17
We had a roofer visit today who told us the three issues which need resolving are;
- A crack in the gutter behind the parapet wall
- The flashing is corroded
- There's no overlap in the flashing
And quoted £850 for the repair.
My only concern here is that they don't have any Checkatrade/TrustedTrader type presence, and although they have the NFRC logo on the van, they don't seem to be listed. I called to ask them if they're listed under another name (they have three names on the van, two location-based and one generic "repairs ltd" type name) and he confirmed the name they're listed with... but still, can't find them.
We have yet another contractor coming round on Friday in any case to get a second opinion, but based on the above does the cost/work/solution sound reasonable to those here who know about these things?
- A crack in the gutter behind the parapet wall
- The flashing is corroded
- There's no overlap in the flashing
And quoted £850 for the repair.
My only concern here is that they don't have any Checkatrade/TrustedTrader type presence, and although they have the NFRC logo on the van, they don't seem to be listed. I called to ask them if they're listed under another name (they have three names on the van, two location-based and one generic "repairs ltd" type name) and he confirmed the name they're listed with... but still, can't find them.
We have yet another contractor coming round on Friday in any case to get a second opinion, but based on the above does the cost/work/solution sound reasonable to those here who know about these things?
I've contacted at least 7 roofers, including those recommended above, of which only three responded. One offered a verbal quote of £850 as above but didn't seem to be listed on any reputable websites; One has not quoted despite several chases, in each case he'll "call me this evening".
The third has quoted as below, but it appears to be a much bigger job than expected and hugely more expensive than anticipated. I don't know anything about roofs/roof construction sp any feedback on the below would be really useful.
The third has quoted as below, but it appears to be a much bigger job than expected and hugely more expensive than anticipated. I don't know anything about roofs/roof construction sp any feedback on the below would be really useful.
Quote said:
Quotation to carry out remedial repairs to your front box guttering and roof
Upon our appointment, I inspected your property and found there is an ongoing issue with a leak
from the front box gutter. I accessed the roof and stripped some tiles out for a closer inspection and
found that there is poorly designed secret gutter that runs down the left-side parapet wall that is
blocked and causing rain water to spill out the gutter and run down the roof behind the tiles. The
box gutter outlet has been poorly installed and has allowed rainwater to penetrate though to the
structural timbers and rot the timber decking. The timber decking is that rotten around the outlet it
has sunk below this which is preventing the rainwater from dispersing correctly. I am proposing a full
overhaul of the front box gutter section and to install a lead soaker system up the left-hand parapet
wall. There is quite a lot of work to be done but with all the poor attempts in the past I feel this
should be done correctly once and for all. The proposed works are as follows.
• Access the roof by the scaffolding already provided.
• We will strip the 1st course of tiles that fall onto the box gutter and stack for re-use.
• We will strip your section of box gutter and dispose of old materials.
• The existing damaged decking will be removed, and old materials disposed of.
• All damp structural timbers will be treated with wood preservative.
• A new deck will be installed using 18mm OSB3 structural ply which will be fixed with 70mm
wood screws. We will also create a timber kirb separating your box gutter from your
neighbours.
• A new custom fit lead outlet will be installed and fixed to the new decking.
• A new Firestone EPDM roof covering will be installed, all abutments and the outlet will be
sealed to manufactures guidelines.
• We will seal your new box gutter EPDM to your neighbour’s box gutter using a solvent based
primer.
• We will strip 3 tiles away from the parapet from the box gutter to the to of the roof exposing
the secret gutter.
• The secret gutter will be cleared of all built up debris and re-dressed to prevent rainwater
overspill.
• We will install plastic eave support trays along the box gutter tucked under the roofing felt,
this will prevent the felt sagging behind the box gutter.
• We will re-tile the stripped area of roof using the existing tiles, we will install individual lead
soakers on each tiles course to prevent water ingress in the future.
• Any broken tiles will be replaced with well-matched replacements.
• All old materials and debris will be disposed of.
TOTAL BOX GUTTER INC LEAD OUTLET: £1295.00+VAT
TOTAL ROOF WORKS: £895.00+VAT
As an aside, their quote and the invoice for the scaffolding they put up list VAT, but no VAT number. Is there a way to look up a VAT number from the company name? Call me a cynic, but a part of me questions whether they're registered for VAT and are still trying to charge for it...Upon our appointment, I inspected your property and found there is an ongoing issue with a leak
from the front box gutter. I accessed the roof and stripped some tiles out for a closer inspection and
found that there is poorly designed secret gutter that runs down the left-side parapet wall that is
blocked and causing rain water to spill out the gutter and run down the roof behind the tiles. The
box gutter outlet has been poorly installed and has allowed rainwater to penetrate though to the
structural timbers and rot the timber decking. The timber decking is that rotten around the outlet it
has sunk below this which is preventing the rainwater from dispersing correctly. I am proposing a full
overhaul of the front box gutter section and to install a lead soaker system up the left-hand parapet
wall. There is quite a lot of work to be done but with all the poor attempts in the past I feel this
should be done correctly once and for all. The proposed works are as follows.
• Access the roof by the scaffolding already provided.
• We will strip the 1st course of tiles that fall onto the box gutter and stack for re-use.
• We will strip your section of box gutter and dispose of old materials.
• The existing damaged decking will be removed, and old materials disposed of.
• All damp structural timbers will be treated with wood preservative.
• A new deck will be installed using 18mm OSB3 structural ply which will be fixed with 70mm
wood screws. We will also create a timber kirb separating your box gutter from your
neighbours.
• A new custom fit lead outlet will be installed and fixed to the new decking.
• A new Firestone EPDM roof covering will be installed, all abutments and the outlet will be
sealed to manufactures guidelines.
• We will seal your new box gutter EPDM to your neighbour’s box gutter using a solvent based
primer.
• We will strip 3 tiles away from the parapet from the box gutter to the to of the roof exposing
the secret gutter.
• The secret gutter will be cleared of all built up debris and re-dressed to prevent rainwater
overspill.
• We will install plastic eave support trays along the box gutter tucked under the roofing felt,
this will prevent the felt sagging behind the box gutter.
• We will re-tile the stripped area of roof using the existing tiles, we will install individual lead
soakers on each tiles course to prevent water ingress in the future.
• Any broken tiles will be replaced with well-matched replacements.
• All old materials and debris will be disposed of.
TOTAL BOX GUTTER INC LEAD OUTLET: £1295.00+VAT
TOTAL ROOF WORKS: £895.00+VAT
Edited by romeogolf on Friday 7th February 10:13
It seems a much more comprehensive quote than the previous and the price seems reasonable for the work to be done. However and its a big however without being up on the roof and having a good poke about its very hard to tell what needs done.
My best advice would be to avoid anyone that is 'all trades' and look for a specialist roofer and get a quote from them as a comparison.
FYI In one of your previous quotes the roofer did something which I absolutely hate - which is using the term "if required / if necessary" but still roll it into the total work that may not be needed. That part should be split out of the quote as a separate quote otherwise you are paying work work that doesn't get done!!
My best advice would be to avoid anyone that is 'all trades' and look for a specialist roofer and get a quote from them as a comparison.
FYI In one of your previous quotes the roofer did something which I absolutely hate - which is using the term "if required / if necessary" but still roll it into the total work that may not be needed. That part should be split out of the quote as a separate quote otherwise you are paying work work that doesn't get done!!
"I accessed the roof and stripped some tiles out for a closer inspection and
found that there is poorly designed secret gutter that runs down the left-side parapet wall that is
blocked and causing rain water to spill out the gutter and run down the roof behind the tiles."
I win the prize then?
...the price looks okay to me
found that there is poorly designed secret gutter that runs down the left-side parapet wall that is
blocked and causing rain water to spill out the gutter and run down the roof behind the tiles."
I win the prize then?
...the price looks okay to me
romeogolf said:
One offered a verbal quote of £850 as above but didn't seem to be listed on any reputable websites
Don't read much, if anything, into this. I'm pretty sure all the best tradesmen I've used don't have / aren't on websites; presumably as they don't need to be if repeat business and word of mouth gets them all the work they need. romeogolf said:
I've contacted at least 7 roofers, including those recommended above, of which only three responded. One offered a verbal quote of £850 as above but didn't seem to be listed on any reputable websites; One has not quoted despite several chases, in each case he'll "call me this evening".
I wouldn't trust any of the Trusted Trader/Checkatrade type websites: every trade I've had from there has been unsatisfactory. Don't forget you are the product as their business is selling cusomers to the traders, not the other way round. Do you have a local guide as I've found these much better (The Little Green Book round our way)?romeogolf said:
The third has quoted as below, but it appears to be a much bigger job than expected and hugely more expensive than anticipated. I don't know anything about roofs/roof construction sp any feedback on the below would be really useful.
Well the quote seems rather more comprehensive than the other one. Maybe ask them what guarantee they are going to offer: 5-10 years?romeogolf said:
As an aside, their quote and the invoice for the scaffolding they put up list VAT, but no VAT number. Is there a way to look up a VAT number from the company name? Call me a cynic, but a part of me questions whether they're registered for VAT and are still trying to charge for it...
Try this site for a reverse VAT number search: it worked when I put my own company name in.http://www.vat-lookup.co.uk/
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