LED bulbs - why not mandatory or subsidised
Discussion
98elise said:
ElectricSoup said:
98elise said:
rykard said:
we've tried to swap to LED bulbs. Mostly not very well. It's interesting to read the other comments on here about voltages and transformers etc. Surely if you want everyone to swap to LEDs then there should be some sort of grant to fix the electrics in the older houses that aren't 'compatible' and the bulbs should last a lot longer than they seem to be doing
It's nothing to do with age. 12v Halogens are a relatively recent invention, and all you need to change the transformer to an LED driver. They can be bought for as little as £3.I don't think I've had a single LED fail, and I paid about £2 per lamp. When we're in the range of things that cost £2-3 there really doesn't need to be a grant.
It's the low voltage halogens that are a problem. They have a separate transformer which is sized to the halogen load. For 12v LEDs you need to replace the transformer as well.
Same goes for dimmers. Dimmers won't necessarily work with LED's. You need one that's suitable for LED's.
Riley Blue said:
Last April I replaced the four GU10 halogens in our kitchen with LEDs from Sainsburys. Three of the LEDs have failed since then and been replaced with the halogens I took out. Prompted by this thread I've bought some more LEDs, Philips this time, on the box is printed '15 years, 15,000 hours'.
In my experience Philips bulbs are head and shoulders better than the rest, especially over cheap brands. Philips CFLs were always streets ahead with instant lighting to 90% brightness and a nice colour; their LEDs likewise give a very pleasing light and I’ve never had one fail. I’d be tempted to take those Sainsbury’s ones back and see what they offer.(I have no personal connection with Philips and do not hold a position on their shares.)
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Tuesday 28th January 07:37
looking at the LED against old tech incandescent lighting you would be amazed at the savings both direct and indirect. Ive seen a few commercial buildings make the change over and the difference is simply astounding in terms of energy consumption.
A 100W light bulb verses a 7w LED.... The 100W light bulb produces a lot of heat, multiply that by the number of bulbs you have and you have a lot of base heat load to take into account, also that heat discolours fixtures and fittings, take away that heat you take away the heat load and the other associated knock on effects.
Flourescent lamps, they have driver switchgear either old fashioned starters and ballasts at the least to high frequency invertor gear, add in emergency light fittings and you have significant battery capacity per fitting and that all adds up, maintenance and the like also has to be factored into that.
Goto LED and due to the size of the lamps all that reduces, even with the control gear, you can have one low voltage supply and that powers a number of LED fittings in the room.
Lighting is evolving here and we are getting better with it.
A 100W light bulb verses a 7w LED.... The 100W light bulb produces a lot of heat, multiply that by the number of bulbs you have and you have a lot of base heat load to take into account, also that heat discolours fixtures and fittings, take away that heat you take away the heat load and the other associated knock on effects.
Flourescent lamps, they have driver switchgear either old fashioned starters and ballasts at the least to high frequency invertor gear, add in emergency light fittings and you have significant battery capacity per fitting and that all adds up, maintenance and the like also has to be factored into that.
Goto LED and due to the size of the lamps all that reduces, even with the control gear, you can have one low voltage supply and that powers a number of LED fittings in the room.
Lighting is evolving here and we are getting better with it.
FiF said:
On the question of leds and dimmers, do they generally not dim as low as incandescent? We've only converted one set do far, and while they do dim a fair bit from full on, the lowest setting could do with being a bit lower. .. Any recommendations on kit....
Dimming LEDs nicely is hard, particularly using wiring designed for 240vac filament bulbs, so yes, most are poor at best.One of the issues is that when dimmed LEDs don't change colour temperature and get warmer like a filament bulb does/would unless you have multiple LEDs in the package, which is what Philips WarmGlow does. I've not used them yet as we need to get the dimmers sorted, but it's on the list to try.
https://www.johnlewis.com/philips-9w-bc-led-classi...
https://www.screwfix.com/p/philips-bc-gls-led-ligh...
We have also when re-wiring our house had a 'lamp circuit' put in, so when we want it real cosy with can turn off the main room lights and turn on all the lamps with a single switch. Not bought into the hue/smarthome stuff.
Daniel
Riley Blue said:
L.... Philips this time, on the box is printed '15 years, 15,000 hours'....
Hopefully that works out, certainly it would be nice if the respected brands lasted.Obviously some of the cheaper options are also reasonable or even re-branded from the same factory, but some are also 'ebay special' grade and last no time at all.
I really like the Osram 'Parathom' frosted filament bulbs, which look and give out 360 light without glare, just like a conventional filament gls. These are also 15,000 hour rated. We have bought about 20 over the last 18months and lit the bulk of the house with them. We also have the Osram LEDvance warm white floodlights.
First one failed last week, one of the newer ones, which I am hoping is a one-off early life failure as otherwise they seem nice kit.
Daniel
Did skim read the thread somewhat but it's worth remembering that lightbulb manufacturers have history of working together to benefit themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
I imagine their government lobbying wings are similarly well organised.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
I imagine their government lobbying wings are similarly well organised.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
Riley Blue said:
Last April I replaced the four GU10 halogens in our kitchen with LEDs from Sainsburys. Three of the LEDs have failed since then and been replaced with the halogens I took out. Prompted by this thread I've bought some more LEDs, Philips this time, on the box is printed '15 years, 15,000 hours'.
In my experience Philips bulbs are head and shoulders better than the rest, especially over cheap brands. Philips CFLs were always streets ahead with instant lighting to 90% brightness and a nice colour; their LEDs likewise give a very pleasing light and I’ve never had one fail. I’d be tempted to take those Sainsbury’s ones back and see what they offer.(I have no personal connection with Philips and do not hold a position on their shares.)
Had more than a few people resolutely insist to me there "must be something wrong with their lights" when its actually just a batch of s
tty bulbs. Anything decent branded is usually reliable, Phillips Osram crompton etc etc, fitted a lot of integral ones over the last couple of years with few issues. With anything electronic and relatively low cost you have to expect a few duff 'uns along the way.The LAP stuff gets reasonable mention... the Osram frosted filament bulbs are only £2.50 each.
https://cpc.farnell.com/osram/4058075061798/lamp-l...
https://cpc.farnell.com/osram/4058075061736/lamp-l...
Daniel
https://cpc.farnell.com/osram/4058075061798/lamp-l...
https://cpc.farnell.com/osram/4058075061736/lamp-l...
Daniel
Avoid the 'ebey' cheap variaties and use Philips/Osram/Sylvania/GE, Ikeas own brand are also pretty good. I have learnt the hard way that the life expectancy for the discount priced altenatives is much shorter than they would lead you to believe from the hype and carton text. The light output can also be poorer.
Condi said:
p1esk said:
That's the word I like: encourage.
In my view, while some of it is appropriate and justifiable, we already have too much regulation and mandatory compliance - especially when it relates to what we can/can not have, or can/can not do in our own homes.
The government should be producing and issuing advice, guidance, suggestions, recommendations, and backing it up with incentives, and leaving it at that.
Disagree; the rental sector in particular is terrible for investment and without government requirements it won't change. The landlord sees no benefit from his investment, while tenants are stuck with inefficient and expensive to run homes. In my view, while some of it is appropriate and justifiable, we already have too much regulation and mandatory compliance - especially when it relates to what we can/can not have, or can/can not do in our own homes.
The government should be producing and issuing advice, guidance, suggestions, recommendations, and backing it up with incentives, and leaving it at that.
Ref businesses - the energy firms will often put energy efficiency measures in for no upfront cost, including the likes of LED lighting. This is then paid for over a period of time through your energy bills, before the benefit switches to the buyer. It is a bit of a no brainer.
But there we go - PH wouldn't really serve much purpose if we were all of the same mind.
Wickes have some really cheap non dimmable GU10's, pack of 6 for £3 (10 for £5) https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-LED-Light-Bulb---5...
Fitted some at the weekend and colour and light output seem to be identical to standard 50W halogens. Supposed to last 25 years, will update the thread in 2045.
Fitted some at the weekend and colour and light output seem to be identical to standard 50W halogens. Supposed to last 25 years, will update the thread in 2045.
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