Conservation area, enforcement order
Discussion
Quick Q for the planning gurus on here.
We are in the process of buying a property in a conservation area. The searches have flagged an enforcement order dated 2003 to remove a car port, a UPVC replacement window and debris. The car port is still in situ. We asked the vendors to confirm the status, and they basically said p
s off its historic and not to be worried about, and it is for us to confirm if it has been complied with. Well, it clearly hasn't (need to check with surveyor re UPVC replacement window). The vendors have been in the property 38 years, so it is them the enforcement order was served on.
Does anyone know the risk of the council taking further enforcement action 17 years later? I would have thought the council would have sought a court order or the like if their enforcement order was simply ignored ...
We are in the process of buying a property in a conservation area. The searches have flagged an enforcement order dated 2003 to remove a car port, a UPVC replacement window and debris. The car port is still in situ. We asked the vendors to confirm the status, and they basically said p
s off its historic and not to be worried about, and it is for us to confirm if it has been complied with. Well, it clearly hasn't (need to check with surveyor re UPVC replacement window). The vendors have been in the property 38 years, so it is them the enforcement order was served on. Does anyone know the risk of the council taking further enforcement action 17 years later? I would have thought the council would have sought a court order or the like if their enforcement order was simply ignored ...
I would have thought the usual practice would for the vendor to take out one of those rubbish insurance polices.
We looked at a listed house a while ago and was worried about replacement windows as the house was listed. Got a load of rubbish back from the agent / vendor.
Nearly bought it too...
https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/buildings/two-f...
We looked at a listed house a while ago and was worried about replacement windows as the house was listed. Got a load of rubbish back from the agent / vendor.
Nearly bought it too...
https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/buildings/two-f...
We have a few outstanding issues, in respect of all of which the vendors are basically saying ps off.
- Aforementioned enforcement order.
- Can't confirm ownership of the boundary fences (though presumably my solicitor can, but they are just as unhelpful as the vendors sadly)
- Claim the rear extension built in 2007 is building regulation exempt, I am fairly sure it isn't, but won't do anything about it
- Won't get the boiler serviced despite it not being serviced since 2009 (not really worth falling out over)
- Won't confirm whether or not they have consent for building over a public gravity sewer (not clear whether they needed it given age of extension)
As a FTB buyer, I am not sure whether I just bend over and say whatever and crack on or push back and say no you've got to be a bit more helpful ...
s off. - Aforementioned enforcement order.
- Can't confirm ownership of the boundary fences (though presumably my solicitor can, but they are just as unhelpful as the vendors sadly)
- Claim the rear extension built in 2007 is building regulation exempt, I am fairly sure it isn't, but won't do anything about it
- Won't get the boiler serviced despite it not being serviced since 2009 (not really worth falling out over)
- Won't confirm whether or not they have consent for building over a public gravity sewer (not clear whether they needed it given age of extension)
As a FTB buyer, I am not sure whether I just bend over and say whatever and crack on or push back and say no you've got to be a bit more helpful ...
We lived in a conservation area (North Essex), then we had some Aussie couple move in next door.
Submitted two plans for a conservatory, one they showed us, one they put forward and was turned down. They then went ahead and built the unsightly conservatory, which pissed us off immensely. Got the council planning bloke down [B]twice[/B} who was appalled (apparently) and assured us the carbuncle would be ordered to be taken down.
Back in the office, the council couldn't give a toss.
I wouldn't read too much into conservation areas, unless they're actually listed. The councils really don't.
Submitted two plans for a conservatory, one they showed us, one they put forward and was turned down. They then went ahead and built the unsightly conservatory, which pissed us off immensely. Got the council planning bloke down [B]twice[/B} who was appalled (apparently) and assured us the carbuncle would be ordered to be taken down.
Back in the office, the council couldn't give a toss.
I wouldn't read too much into conservation areas, unless they're actually listed. The councils really don't.
The bottom line is that if there has been previous enforcement, the usual 4/10 year 'exemption from enforcement' rule under Paragraph 171B of the T&CPA no longer applies.
In other words, they can re-activate the enforcement action at any future time, without limitation (provided it relates to the original breach), should it be brought to their attention again.
In other words, they can re-activate the enforcement action at any future time, without limitation (provided it relates to the original breach), should it be brought to their attention again.
z4RRSchris said:
i would tell them to fk off and find another buyer.
They should either replace / remove the items listed in the enforcement notice, or insure against it.
ditto the other things, they should insure against it.
Yes, maybe, but we are probably at least £1500 deep by this point (survey, broker, searches, solicitor fees) and we do like the house and want to complete the purchase. So I'd rather have the issues resolved ...k off and find another buyer. They should either replace / remove the items listed in the enforcement notice, or insure against it.
ditto the other things, they should insure against it.
FlipFlopGriff said:
Can you put a cost on what you may need to do to resolve the issues? if so take that off your offer and tell them the reasons why. I can't understand unhelpful sellers unless they either 1) have lots of interest and expect offers to flood in or 2) they don;t want to sell.
FFG.
Well the bigger issue is I like the car port being there so would rather not remove it. I am sure it wouldn't be hugely expensive to rip down if it needed (it's really just a wooden frame with a plastic roof). The window situation I need to confirm but obviously could be more expensive. The lack of building regulations is a bigger problem, but afaik the age means enforcement action is very unlikely so the risk is whether or not it falls down. FFG.
Bussolini said:
Yes, maybe, but we are probably at least £1500 deep by this point (survey, broker, searches, solicitor fees) and we do like the house and want to complete the purchase. So I'd rather have the issues resolved ...
your choices:accept and potential bill later
ask them to put right now
ask them to inspire against
walk
pick one.
z4RRSchris said:
Bussolini said:
Yes, maybe, but we are probably at least £1500 deep by this point (survey, broker, searches, solicitor fees) and we do like the house and want to complete the purchase. So I'd rather have the issues resolved ...
your choices:accept and potential bill later
ask them to put right now
ask them to inspire against
walk
pick one.
Bussolini said:
Well the bigger issue is I like the car port being there so would rather not remove it. I am sure it wouldn't be hugely expensive to rip down if it needed (it's really just a wooden frame with a plastic roof). The window situation I need to confirm but obviously could be more expensive. The lack of building regulations is a bigger problem, but afaik the age means enforcement action is very unlikely so the risk is whether or not it falls down.
Our neighbour applied for building regs approval as the previous owner ahd approval to build an extension but it was latered from te plans submitted. they did get the approval so this may be an option. If the carport has a plastic roof and its been there for year it probably needs replacing anyway. We put a car port up away from the house and attched to an old brick shed and didn't seek approval. The CO has been around since and didnt comment. Its only a bit of timber iwth a roof after all - maybe a grand or so's worth. I don't think there is a time limit on enforcement action, certainly not for listed so assume conservation area would be similar. FFG.
z4RRSchris said:
Bussolini said:
Yes, maybe, but we are probably at least £1500 deep by this point (survey, broker, searches, solicitor fees) and we do like the house and want to complete the purchase. So I'd rather have the issues resolved ...
your choices:accept and potential bill later
ask them to put right now
ask them to inspire against
walk
pick one.
Don't let your desire for a house blind you to good decision making. Best to get out rather than double down on a bad situation,
Yes, you cant insure if its something already flagged is my understanding.
The chance of having to take it down must be so small after such a length of time.
Worst case is what, you spend circa £1k removing the car port and lose the benefit of it? If you still want the house in this scenario, just carry on.
The chance of having to take it down must be so small after such a length of time.
Worst case is what, you spend circa £1k removing the car port and lose the benefit of it? If you still want the house in this scenario, just carry on.
I hate sellers who can’t be bothered to sell. It can take a bit of work to get everything in order even if you do have the relevant building regs/planning permission etc. To stick your fingers up at the buyer and basically say it’s now your problem is bad form. I’d be telling them do one.
Bill said:
- Seventeen year old enforcement order. Worst case scenario we have to remove a car port (inexpensive), and possibly replace a window (to confirm with surveyor). Enforcement risk after that many years seems low.
- No building regulations or planning permission on a thirteen year old extension. As far as I understand it, the council could no longer take enforcement action in respect of planning permission, and would be very unlikely to take enforcement action in respect of building regulations. Surveyor can confirm that it appears to be built properly, but noting it hasn't fallen down yet.
- Boiler hasn't been serviced since 2009. Might need to budget for a new boiler, it's old anyway, think walking away over an old boiler would be silly. Could get serviced myself in advance of exchange for £80.
- They have 'no information with regard to ownership of boundary fences'. Apparently title is silent, joint and responsible for both sides. Risk is we need to agree with neighbouring properties before changing fences etc.
- Public gravity sewer built over. This could be a bigger issue, but I think the answer is the extension was built in the mid 80s before consent was required. Extension has been up forty years and it hasn't been an issue to date.
None of these issues scream to me walk away, should they?
I am waiting on my surveyor's report which might give a reason to walk away however ...
Edited by Bussolini on Friday 24th January 16:00
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