Conservation area, enforcement order
Discussion
rustyuk said:
I would have thought the usual practice would for the vendor to take out one of those rubbish insurance polices.
As has been mentioned already, you can't insure against a 'risk' that has been already flagged up.However I would think that it is the purchaser and not the vendor who would consider taking out a policy
against the risk of later discovering something that was not out in the open at the time of exchange of contracts?
Hmm.
The problem is you can insure against enforcement action, but not against it being improperly constructed (the enforcement order doesn't relate to the rear extension). Does that mean no building regulations is a walk away issue? (Unless the vendor is willing to get retrospective building regulation approval, which I doubt, given the risk it opens him up to).
The problem is you can insure against enforcement action, but not against it being improperly constructed (the enforcement order doesn't relate to the rear extension). Does that mean no building regulations is a walk away issue? (Unless the vendor is willing to get retrospective building regulation approval, which I doubt, given the risk it opens him up to).
irocfan said:
I do feel your pain here - however my opinion would be to walk. The seller sounds like a complete twunt which begs the question as to what other 'surprises' he's left for you....
You might get away with the bits you've flagged, but I'd be worried about the less obvious bodgery.Good news is I just spoke to the surveyor and he gave the house a broad thumbs up. No major issues, "some small repairs required as with any house", extension probably needed both planning and building regulations but risk of enforcement is "close to zilch" and there is no sign of movement or obvious signs of poor construction (normal caveats applied, is timber walled probably on a concrete base). It does have UPVC windows, so need to push harder on enforcement order, as it seems planning permission was probably required for those to be installed - but "probably no issues getting planning for them".
So the question is does the apparent lack of care by the seller (elderly couple who have been in the house 38 years) mean that we should still be concerned?
God buying houses is stressful, especially your first one when you don't know what you're doing!
So the question is does the apparent lack of care by the seller (elderly couple who have been in the house 38 years) mean that we should still be concerned?
God buying houses is stressful, especially your first one when you don't know what you're doing!
rustyuk said:
My extension had permission but not building regs. I've just spent 10k getting the outer skin of blocks replaced as the original ones had crumbled. Our surveyor also confirmed everything was fine.
It's a bit off topic, but do you now what the cause of that was and is it something that a BUulding Inspector would have picked up if it had been looked at?borcy said:
How much do you want the house, how long have you been looking for?
I'd say the fact that they've been there a while and a knocking on a bit means that they can't be bothered with ticking every box.
Gut instinct?
The house ticks a lot of boxes - it's a three bed end-terraced period freehold house with a garden and parking for 2/3 cars with relatively easy commute to central London for sub 500k for FTB stamp duty relief. Since we've been looking, three other houses have came up in this estate and all three have came off the market in a week. It's a lot better value than two bed flats we have been looking at for similar cash. The surveyor's opinion has got some comfort, so think we will push back on the enforcement order but can probably live with the rest of the issues. I'd say the fact that they've been there a while and a knocking on a bit means that they can't be bothered with ticking every box.
Gut instinct?
The most shocking thing is the vendors bought it for £1200 in 1982 ... I think possibly on right to buy, as some of the houses in the estate are housing association and they bought it from a limited company.
vixen1700 said:
I wouldn't read too much into conservation areas, unless they're actually listed. The councils really don't.
Blimey, I wish that were the case up here in Northumberland. We had to jump through all kinds of hoops to bring our almost derelict house up to modern standards. We even had to apply for planning permission to have a front door that wasn’t white. Had to go to a planning meeting after 3 months to argue the case, because once the parish council object (which they always do) the planner can no longer pass it without it going to committee.
I could write a book on our woes with the planning enforcement officer and parish council (1.2m fence out front was a memorable one).
Our actual planning officer was a great guy who agreed with every single thing we wanted to do, but like I say, it was taken out of his control every time.
I won’t buy in a conservation area again unless the house is already very much how I’d want it. Interior rules are pretty relaxed obviously but anything you can see from the road is a nightmare.
I certainly wouldn’t buy a property with unresolved planning issues. It’s just stress you don’t need. Unless you aren’t bothered about losing the car port or uPVC windows.
marky911 said:
vixen1700 said:
I wouldn't read too much into conservation areas, unless they're actually listed. The councils really don't.
Blimey, I wish that were the case up here in Northumberland. We had to jump through all kinds of hoops to bring our almost derelict house up to modern standards. We even had to apply for planning permission to have a front door that wasn’t white. Had to go to a planning meeting after 3 months to argue the case, because once the parish council object (which they always do) the planner can no longer pass it without it going to committee.
I could write a book on our woes with the planning enforcement officer and parish council (1.2m fence out front was a memorable one).
Our actual planning officer was a great guy who agreed with every single thing we wanted to do, but like I say, it was taken out of his control every time.
I won’t buy in a conservation area again unless the house is already very much how I’d want it. Interior rules are pretty relaxed obviously but anything you can see from the road is a nightmare.
I certainly wouldn’t buy a property with unresolved planning issues. It’s just stress you don’t need. Unless you aren’t bothered about losing the car port or uPVC windows.
marky911 said:
Blimey, I wish that were the case up here in Northumberland. We had to jump through all kinds of hoops to bring our almost derelict house up to modern standards.
We even had to apply for planning permission to have a front door that wasn’t white. Had to go to a planning meeting after 3 months to argue the case, because once the parish council object (which they always do) the planner can no longer pass it without it going to committee.
I could write a book on our woes with the planning enforcement officer and parish council (1.2m fence out front was a memorable one).
Our actual planning officer was a great guy who agreed with every single thing we wanted to do, but like I say, it was taken out of his control every time.
I won’t buy in a conservation area again unless the house is already very much how I’d want it. Interior rules are pretty relaxed obviously but anything you can see from the road is a nightmare.
I certainly wouldn’t buy a property with unresolved planning issues. It’s just stress you don’t need. Unless you aren’t bothered about losing the car port or uPVC windows.
We wouldn't intend to do any changes to the outside of the property, so that is probably not an issue, and I am aware that planning permission is required even to change the front door. It has the advantage that it keeps the estate a pretty period estate with lots of greenery and pleasant houses, which is a rarity in London (at least at this price!). We even had to apply for planning permission to have a front door that wasn’t white. Had to go to a planning meeting after 3 months to argue the case, because once the parish council object (which they always do) the planner can no longer pass it without it going to committee.
I could write a book on our woes with the planning enforcement officer and parish council (1.2m fence out front was a memorable one).
Our actual planning officer was a great guy who agreed with every single thing we wanted to do, but like I say, it was taken out of his control every time.
I won’t buy in a conservation area again unless the house is already very much how I’d want it. Interior rules are pretty relaxed obviously but anything you can see from the road is a nightmare.
I certainly wouldn’t buy a property with unresolved planning issues. It’s just stress you don’t need. Unless you aren’t bothered about losing the car port or uPVC windows.
I think I have concluded that we need to get to the bottom of the 2003 enforcement order, but am less concerned about the rear extension.
You are a buyer at the moment, but some time in the future likely to be a seller, with a buyer going through the same process as you, if you don’t resolve the uncertainty one way or another.
I had a similar-ish case when trying to sell my flat which had incorrect deeds. Became very protracted and cost me 40K.
I had a similar-ish case when trying to sell my flat which had incorrect deeds. Became very protracted and cost me 40K.
Bussolini said:
borcy said:
How much do you want the house, how long have you been looking for?
I'd say the fact that they've been there a while and a knocking on a bit means that they can't be bothered with ticking every box.
Gut instinct?
The house ticks a lot of boxes - it's a three bed end-terraced period freehold house with a garden and parking for 2/3 cars with relatively easy commute to central London for sub 500k for FTB stamp duty relief. Since we've been looking, three other houses have came up in this estate and all three have came off the market in a week. It's a lot better value than two bed flats we have been looking at for similar cash. The surveyor's opinion has got some comfort, so think we will push back on the enforcement order but can probably live with the rest of the issues. I'd say the fact that they've been there a while and a knocking on a bit means that they can't be bothered with ticking every box.
Gut instinct?
The most shocking thing is the vendors bought it for £1200 in 1982 ... I think possibly on right to buy, as some of the houses in the estate are housing association and they bought it from a limited company.
Could you stomach 30k (or similar) of faffing about in the future for other issues ?
borcy said:
It doesn't sound too bad on the face of it, however it'd make me nervous about what other 'legacy' issues there are lurking.
Could you stomach 30k (or similar) of faffing about in the future for other issues ?
It would be pretty annoying, but aren't all houses a bit of a risk like that? I hoped a building survey (an expensive one!) would reduce that risk.Could you stomach 30k (or similar) of faffing about in the future for other issues ?
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