Concrete spur for fence posts
Discussion
dhutch said:
A good guide is maybe £200/day inc vat but plus materials, depending on the trade sand where in the country you are. I would expect you could get fencing done for a lot less.
A spur is what £20-25 and a bag of postcret £5, less if you mix your own which isn't hard. So that's maybe £300 materials inc the vat.
At which point £880+vat or £1050 inc is fairly strong money. Presumably because they are busy, trying their luck, or just didn't want the job.
I'm no expert, but have had a fair few trades in recently, have put in a few posts in my life, and can do basic sums.
Makes hedge plants seem bloody cheap!
Daniel
To install a 4” spur costs me £16. That’s for the spur, postmix, coach screws and washers. As mentioned, the money charged takes into account that the job could be an utter utter pig and take 90mins/2hours. It all evens out. A spur is what £20-25 and a bag of postcret £5, less if you mix your own which isn't hard. So that's maybe £300 materials inc the vat.
At which point £880+vat or £1050 inc is fairly strong money. Presumably because they are busy, trying their luck, or just didn't want the job.
I'm no expert, but have had a fair few trades in recently, have put in a few posts in my life, and can do basic sums.
Makes hedge plants seem bloody cheap!
Daniel
As for a trade/fencer charging himself out to a domestic customer at £200 a day. Highly unlikely. As a two man team, I bill us out at £400 a day, within a 40mile radius. It’s a hard job to be doing at £200 a day, and in this game due to risk of cable strikes, drain strikes etc our insurances don’t come cheap. Fencing is also looked at as an unskilled trade, But trust me, it isn’t.
As I’ve said, £880+Vat is strong money. But please remember that due to the inclement weather we have been having, there is an abundance of domestic work at the minute, which lets face it, is charged at a premium right now, but that’s the way business works. Supply and demand. So the contractor has the luxury of being able to pick and choose what he’s going to be doing. He won’t be going out of his way to do repair work with potention headaches, when Mr Smith the next street down has 25mof new closeboard to fit.
Good man O.P
You’ll be fine buzzing in the coach screws with an impact gun. The screw will pull out of the timber before the concrete shatters.
Rather than a trenching spade like you’ve pictured, invest it a fencing graft/spade. They have a far longer handle, which is much easier on your back. That kango will make light work of the old concrete too.
You’ll be fine buzzing in the coach screws with an impact gun. The screw will pull out of the timber before the concrete shatters.
Rather than a trenching spade like you’ve pictured, invest it a fencing graft/spade. They have a far longer handle, which is much easier on your back. That kango will make light work of the old concrete too.
MattCharlton91 said:
Good man O.P
You’ll be fine buzzing in the coach screws with an impact gun. The screw will pull out of the timber before the concrete shatters.
Rather than a trenching spade like you’ve pictured, invest it a fencing graft/spade. They have a far longer handle, which is much easier on your back. That kango will make light work of the old concrete too.
Thanks mate I'll change the spade for a proper graft as you adviseYou’ll be fine buzzing in the coach screws with an impact gun. The screw will pull out of the timber before the concrete shatters.
Rather than a trenching spade like you’ve pictured, invest it a fencing graft/spade. They have a far longer handle, which is much easier on your back. That kango will make light work of the old concrete too.
I picked up the repair spurs today on a farm, this really attractive 20 year old girl loaded them into the back of my A5 with me, without wearing gloves & with nicely painted nails, like they were bags of supermarket shopping! I couldn't believe it great service made me laugh really.
I got 4x4 spurs that are 3 foot 6 long, with 200mm coach screws (posts are 130mm deep) & square washers. Cost including post mix is £17.38 per post. Didn't go for 4 foot spurs as posts have lighting fittted that I would have had to move. Hopefully they'll be OK, they are 4x4 so that might help.
Quick question - do I lay a bit of gravel or aggregate of some sort under the repair stud before postcreting?
jakesmith said:
Quick question - do I lay a bit of gravel or aggregate of some sort under the repair stud before postcreting?
I hope not!! Otherwise I'll have to dig all mine up again!!Isn't gravel just suggested for under the timber posts to help them drain??
I'd say, if you can, to also chop away as much of the rotten post as you can, to allow the concrete to get round all 4 sides of the spur.
And take it easy.
MattCharlton91 said:
To install a 4” spur costs me £16. That’s for the spur, postmix, coach screws and washers.
Fair do.MattCharlton91 said:
As for a trade/fencer charging himself out to a domestic customer at £200 a day. Highly unlikely. As a two man team, I bill us out at £400 a day....
Am I missing something here? 2x200=400?Not suggesting fencing is a lesser trade, but I also wouldn't expect them to be on more than a spark/spread? There are always people cheaper than the going rate!
Daniel
jakesmith said:
MattCharlton91 said:
£880 +vat is very steep indeed!
Have a go! You may just enjoy it! Follow the step by step you’ll be fine. Would pics to go with the steps be helpful too? (Apologies if I’m teaching you to suck eggs!)
Typically a spur takes me around 30mins start to finish, but that’s with a good heavy graft, and 13years of pain/experience.
Thanks!Have a go! You may just enjoy it! Follow the step by step you’ll be fine. Would pics to go with the steps be helpful too? (Apologies if I’m teaching you to suck eggs!)
Typically a spur takes me around 30mins start to finish, but that’s with a good heavy graft, and 13years of pain/experience.
Should be OK, got 2 days to do it + a friend coming round for day 2. I have used it as an excuse to buy some new tools
If I get the £200 back from Jacksons the job will cost me £300 all in
Rather that, get some exercise, learn a new skill & get some quality tools to keep, than pay double for someoone to do it for me
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|https://thumbsnap.com/J6SG2Oid[/url]Digging is a matter of getting in close to the existing concrete and around roots so you can cut them. A normal spade and a hand trowel worked for me. I broke up the concrete around first three posts with a bolster, lump hammer and crowbar before, chatting to a friend later, and finding that he has an electric breaker I could borrow for the next three! I would hire the breaker if you can’t borrow one. You don’t need the impact driver for the coach screws; they go in quite easily if you start them with a couple of bashes with a hammer then finish with an 18mm socket.
The first three took about two hours each and the last three about an hour each.
In hindsight, if I knew I could get them done for £60 each all in, I would have done so in a heartbeat and saved myself a sore back and bum cheek!
Rewe said:
... you don’t need to buy all of that kit!....
Of cause you don't.You need a spade, and a 5ft crowbar, £25 each tops if you don't already have one, and the latter will last several lifetimes.
I have never concreted in a post, well tamped down crush&run will hold anything you like just as well and makes replacing it 20 years later much easier. You can use a bit of 3x2 to tamp!
The screws/bolts will go in with any cordless and a ratchet socket set in a fraction of the time of replacing the post.
HOWEVER
As the alternative if to spend the cost of getting someone expensive to do the job for you, on power tools you will likely never want or need again, which then facilitates not only wasting the worlds resources, but being able to moan to a internet forum that you are a bit tight at the moment. You make your own luck.
Daniel
dhutch said:
m I missing something here? 2x200=400?
Not suggesting fencing is a lesser trade, but I also wouldn't expect them to be on more than a spark/spread? There are always people cheaper than the going rate!
Daniel
My oppo doesn’t earn £200 a day though. As for earning as much as a spark, I don’t really know what a spark earns, as I’d have no idea on how to price the work. This next comment isn’t intended as penis swinging, but I price work so there is £350/400 a day in it after labourers wage, diesel and sundry. Not suggesting fencing is a lesser trade, but I also wouldn't expect them to be on more than a spark/spread? There are always people cheaper than the going rate!
Daniel
OP good choice on the graft, you’ll be surprised at how useful they are and how often you use it. No need to put any gravel at the base of the post. It’s a concrete product so isn’t porous etc. Nothing to drain.
Edited by MattCharlton91 on Thursday 20th February 13:19
I've just done 9 of the 11, and it took about 7 hours. 1 hour was spent sorting out a twisted panel that wouldn't go back in the guide and I had to mess about removing & replacing nails etc
I didn't come across any concrete whatsoever - just lots of smashed up bricks and stuff. So that made it easier. The ground is clay and very stony. I did the first one without the jackhammer / breaker and it was hideous. The power breaker was essential I couldn't have done it without it. The impact driver was amazing! I have wanted one for some time as I do a lot of DIY projects and for screwing into hard wood like oak, or screwing where it is awkward to do pilot holes like when you're up a ladder, it is going to be brilliant. Could have managed without it easily enough but it was £55 and uses my existing Makita battery.
The post digging scissor spades were very good as was the ground breaking tool. They will be useful for planting going forward. I didn't use the graft in the end. The tools will be invaluable for numerous tasks going forward and as always I've learned a new skill, been really active, and developed my confidence doing some work in my home.
Thanks for all the advice
I haven't done the postcrete stage and reading a comment above am wondering how necessary it is - could I just backfill the holes with the bits of brick and soil and stuff instead to make it easier to remove in future or is concreting in superior?
I didn't come across any concrete whatsoever - just lots of smashed up bricks and stuff. So that made it easier. The ground is clay and very stony. I did the first one without the jackhammer / breaker and it was hideous. The power breaker was essential I couldn't have done it without it. The impact driver was amazing! I have wanted one for some time as I do a lot of DIY projects and for screwing into hard wood like oak, or screwing where it is awkward to do pilot holes like when you're up a ladder, it is going to be brilliant. Could have managed without it easily enough but it was £55 and uses my existing Makita battery.
The post digging scissor spades were very good as was the ground breaking tool. They will be useful for planting going forward. I didn't use the graft in the end. The tools will be invaluable for numerous tasks going forward and as always I've learned a new skill, been really active, and developed my confidence doing some work in my home.
Thanks for all the advice
I haven't done the postcrete stage and reading a comment above am wondering how necessary it is - could I just backfill the holes with the bits of brick and soil and stuff instead to make it easier to remove in future or is concreting in superior?
jakesmith said:
I didn't come across any concrete whatsoever - just lots of smashed up bricks.
I haven't done the postcrete stage and reading a comment above am wondering how necessary it is - could I just backfill the holes with the bits of brick and soil and stuff instead to make it easier to remove in future or is concreting in superior?
Does that account for the premature failure?I haven't done the postcrete stage and reading a comment above am wondering how necessary it is - could I just backfill the holes with the bits of brick and soil and stuff instead to make it easier to remove in future or is concreting in superior?
Do the spurs correctly and you'll never have to do them again, just bolt new post to them as required.
Good work.
Do the spurs correctly and you'll never have to do them again, just bolt new post to them as required.Not unless the old posts pulled out of the ground, which they didn't.
PositronicRay said:
jakesmith said:
I didn't come across any concrete whatsoever - just lots of smashed up bricks.
I haven't done the postcrete stage and reading a comment above am wondering how necessary it is - could I just backfill the holes with the bits of brick and soil and stuff instead to make it easier to remove in future or is concreting in superior?
Does that account for the premature failure?I haven't done the postcrete stage and reading a comment above am wondering how necessary it is - could I just backfill the holes with the bits of brick and soil and stuff instead to make it easier to remove in future or is concreting in superior?
Do the spurs correctly and you'll never have to do them again, just bolt new post to them as required.
dhutch said:
I have never concreted in a post, well tamped down crush&run will hold anything you like just as well and makes replacing it 20 years later much easier. You can use a bit of 3x2 to tamp!
DanielDavid A said:
Question folks if I’m replacing some fencing and it already has concrete Spurs - do I need to bury And concrete the posts (wooden) at all or just coach bolt them to the spurs ?
Having done this job now I’d say no. The point of the spurs is they secure ground-level posts whose sub ground level bit is rotted. Having seen mine, in some cases there was literally nothing below ground. Now they are bolted to the Spurs they are solid as a rock.The whole point of the Spurs is to use in this way. If you’re going to re-dig you might as well do the job properly and remove the Spurs and replace with actual concrete posts that last forever. If you’re putting wooden posts back in, they will slowly rot from ground level. That’s the only downside of the spurs, that and they are a bit ugly.
Depends how long u plan to live there for. If it’s a while and you can be bothered I’d go concrete posts. Personally I couldn’t be bothered
jakesmith said:
David A said:
Question folks if I’m replacing some fencing and it already has concrete Spurs - do I need to bury And concrete the posts (wooden) at all or just coach bolt them to the spurs ?
Having done this job now I’d say no. The point of the spurs is they secure ground-level posts whose sub ground level bit is rotted. Having seen mine, in some cases there was literally nothing below ground. Now they are bolted to the Spurs they are solid as a rock.The whole point of the Spurs is to use in this way. If you’re going to re-dig you might as well do the job properly and remove the Spurs and replace with actual concrete posts that last forever. If you’re putting wooden posts back in, they will slowly rot from ground level. That’s the only downside of the spurs, that and they are a bit ugly.
Depends how long u plan to live there for. If it’s a while and you can be bothered I’d go concrete posts. Personally I couldn’t be bothered
On the fence and gate run we are doing there are roughly 10-12 spurs in already and 6-4 more needed. I'll be using Jacksons with their slotted posts. which in the past have been fairly rot resistant with their "jakcure"
Next question - do jacksons do discounts (I will ask of course) as the shopping basket is nearly £5500 at the moment !
David
MattCharlton91 said:
Christ! What are you getting?
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David A said:
OK Thanks, I don't like concrete full posts, I find them ugly.
On the fence and gate run we are doing there are roughly 10-12 spurs in already and 6-4 more needed. I'll be using Jacksons with their slotted posts. which in the past have been fairly rot resistant with their "jakcure"
Next question - do jacksons do discounts (I will ask of course) as the shopping basket is nearly £5500 at the moment !
David
I seriously wouldn't expect any extra resilience from buying Jackson's Jaccured posts, after all they are a piece of wood burried in the ground. Mine were the top of the range Jacksons ones and there was nothing left of them 10 years on. Honestly, just get concrete posts and paint them if you don't like the colour, or you'll be into an expensive and annoying job before you know itOn the fence and gate run we are doing there are roughly 10-12 spurs in already and 6-4 more needed. I'll be using Jacksons with their slotted posts. which in the past have been fairly rot resistant with their "jakcure"
Next question - do jacksons do discounts (I will ask of course) as the shopping basket is nearly £5500 at the moment !
David
I'm watching this thread with interest.
I moved in to (hopefully) my last house last year, and one of the things that needs doing is the fence.
Three concrete spurs were used to repair the fence before we viewed the place, there's at least one post in one of those metal spike things, and the others are behind a huge hedge so I've no idea. The other two sides of the garden have slotted concrete posts already, the bottom edge of the garden also has gravel boards in place.
I'm curious as to the amount of work it will take to dig out the various existing posts on the "bad" side of the garden, and how much it should cost (ball-park figure) to get a contractor to do it PROPERLY. It looks like 6 x 6 foot panels plus one that's about 18 inches wide. Then i'd need six or seven slotted posts too, depending on how I fix the ends of the fence. It runs from the back wall of my garage to the corner of a neighbour's garage. The fence at the bottom of the garden has a slotted post tight up against his garage wall, so I'm wondering if I can do the same on the side fence.
I fancy something more "resilient" than thin feather-edge panels, perhaps something with a scalloped trellis at the top. I'm presuming the labour for such a job is a big chunk of the cost? Four replacement panels are needed for the bottom edge of the garden too, but (again a presumption) I think these are just a case of lift out the old, drop in the new?
Naturally I'm going to consult a local contractor (or three) for quotes after my new bathroom gets done, but I was wondering if any of the fencing contractor PHers would mind giving their thoughts on a rough estimate for 6 full 6 foot panels, 6 full height slotted concrete posts, a roughly 18 inch filler panel, and whatever treatment is best at the ends. Two of the feather edge panels used to repair the fence before we moved in look sound, so could be used to replace panels on the bottom edge of the garden to save pennies.
Pictures...
Bottom of the garden. Four panels, slotted posts, and gravel boards. Fence was hidden by overgrowth from next door's hedge/shrubs. Rotten, completely, so needs replacing.
Turning left we have the bottom part of the side fence that needs the most work. Two panels on the left are new-ish, the others are all falling apart or bodged up. The bench on the left is rotten too, having been discovered in an 8 ft high bramble bush, the root of which can be seen next to the corner of the garage. This garden is taking a lot of time and effort, and it's toll on my back!
Behind the shed is a horror show. This panel is beyond help, but getting to it from my side is difficult. I'll be getting rid of the over-sized wooden shed though, and replacing it with something smaller, so access shouldn't be a problem when the time to replace the fence arrives.
The hedge, and behind it a couple more fence panels. This is the north side of the garden, tucked behind the house and garage. It doesn't get much sun, but doesn't rob me of light either. I need to cut it back, or possibly get rid of it entirely, but my wife wants it kept.
The little "filler" section of fence. Not sure how I can rotate the image? At the bottom is the garage wall and rainwater downpipe, nestled behind a hedge which needs an aggressive prune back.
The other complication is that I don't have access to the garden other than through my garage. So anything that comes in/out will need to fit through a domestic sized door frame. I'll have a word with my next door neighbour, though, as he has direct garden access and will probably be delighted to allow access if it means a nicer fence for them to look at.
When we moved in the fences were mainly hidden behind over grown foliage. Brambles 8 ft high and as thick as trees in places, ivy covering the roof and back wall of the garage at the bottom of the garden. I might have upset the bottom edge neighbour, too, by cutting back "his" hedge/shrubs. That's his garage, and I think I've done him a favour by cutting back the ivy that was lifting his garage roof tiles and trying to grow into his window frame. He asked for access to do this when we moved in but he couldn't get to the ivy behind the brambles. I haven't spoken to him recently so don't know where i stand with him. Deeds are vague as to whether it's his responsibility or ours to replace the bottom fence, but if he's happy for the work to be done, I'm happy to pay for the panels because I can see them from my kitchen, where they're hidden by his hedge/shrubs on his side.
Again, anyone who has a professional interest in fencing, it would be appreciated if you could give me a nod as to the starting price I should expect to pay for a job like this. I'm in Bournemouth, Dorset, if that makes a difference to anything...
I moved in to (hopefully) my last house last year, and one of the things that needs doing is the fence.
Three concrete spurs were used to repair the fence before we viewed the place, there's at least one post in one of those metal spike things, and the others are behind a huge hedge so I've no idea. The other two sides of the garden have slotted concrete posts already, the bottom edge of the garden also has gravel boards in place.
I'm curious as to the amount of work it will take to dig out the various existing posts on the "bad" side of the garden, and how much it should cost (ball-park figure) to get a contractor to do it PROPERLY. It looks like 6 x 6 foot panels plus one that's about 18 inches wide. Then i'd need six or seven slotted posts too, depending on how I fix the ends of the fence. It runs from the back wall of my garage to the corner of a neighbour's garage. The fence at the bottom of the garden has a slotted post tight up against his garage wall, so I'm wondering if I can do the same on the side fence.
I fancy something more "resilient" than thin feather-edge panels, perhaps something with a scalloped trellis at the top. I'm presuming the labour for such a job is a big chunk of the cost? Four replacement panels are needed for the bottom edge of the garden too, but (again a presumption) I think these are just a case of lift out the old, drop in the new?
Naturally I'm going to consult a local contractor (or three) for quotes after my new bathroom gets done, but I was wondering if any of the fencing contractor PHers would mind giving their thoughts on a rough estimate for 6 full 6 foot panels, 6 full height slotted concrete posts, a roughly 18 inch filler panel, and whatever treatment is best at the ends. Two of the feather edge panels used to repair the fence before we moved in look sound, so could be used to replace panels on the bottom edge of the garden to save pennies.
Pictures...
Bottom of the garden. Four panels, slotted posts, and gravel boards. Fence was hidden by overgrowth from next door's hedge/shrubs. Rotten, completely, so needs replacing.
Turning left we have the bottom part of the side fence that needs the most work. Two panels on the left are new-ish, the others are all falling apart or bodged up. The bench on the left is rotten too, having been discovered in an 8 ft high bramble bush, the root of which can be seen next to the corner of the garage. This garden is taking a lot of time and effort, and it's toll on my back!
Behind the shed is a horror show. This panel is beyond help, but getting to it from my side is difficult. I'll be getting rid of the over-sized wooden shed though, and replacing it with something smaller, so access shouldn't be a problem when the time to replace the fence arrives.
The hedge, and behind it a couple more fence panels. This is the north side of the garden, tucked behind the house and garage. It doesn't get much sun, but doesn't rob me of light either. I need to cut it back, or possibly get rid of it entirely, but my wife wants it kept.
The little "filler" section of fence. Not sure how I can rotate the image? At the bottom is the garage wall and rainwater downpipe, nestled behind a hedge which needs an aggressive prune back.
The other complication is that I don't have access to the garden other than through my garage. So anything that comes in/out will need to fit through a domestic sized door frame. I'll have a word with my next door neighbour, though, as he has direct garden access and will probably be delighted to allow access if it means a nicer fence for them to look at.
When we moved in the fences were mainly hidden behind over grown foliage. Brambles 8 ft high and as thick as trees in places, ivy covering the roof and back wall of the garage at the bottom of the garden. I might have upset the bottom edge neighbour, too, by cutting back "his" hedge/shrubs. That's his garage, and I think I've done him a favour by cutting back the ivy that was lifting his garage roof tiles and trying to grow into his window frame. He asked for access to do this when we moved in but he couldn't get to the ivy behind the brambles. I haven't spoken to him recently so don't know where i stand with him. Deeds are vague as to whether it's his responsibility or ours to replace the bottom fence, but if he's happy for the work to be done, I'm happy to pay for the panels because I can see them from my kitchen, where they're hidden by his hedge/shrubs on his side.
Again, anyone who has a professional interest in fencing, it would be appreciated if you could give me a nod as to the starting price I should expect to pay for a job like this. I'm in Bournemouth, Dorset, if that makes a difference to anything...
Edited by yellowjack on Thursday 19th March 15:50
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