Is anyone moving now?

Author
Discussion

B235r

335 posts

30 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
We're due to move very soon, movers has just canceled today because virus if we don't move me & the wife are up fudge creak financially

Don't see how we can move if everythings shut but the ea don't seem worried at all

Where's our help Boris?!?!


jonwm

2,196 posts

95 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
I really dont get it, just recieved an email from the developer to say they want to book the home tour now it's ready.
Strictly 1 at a time in the house but no mention of the lockdown, it's as if half the population are oblivious.

Is visiting my new home to go through the operations of the heating covered in the boris announcement of excusable reasons for leaving the house?

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
B235r said:
We're due to move very soon, movers has just canceled today because virus if we don't move me & the wife are up fudge creak financially

Don't see how we can move if everythings shut but the ea don't seem worried at all

Where's our help Boris?!?!
Problem is, you need to complete as otherwise you are in breach of contract. If you are buying, you could lose deposit!

Darkslider

2,972 posts

170 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
We're completing on our purchase (FTB) this Friday. Exchanged almost 4 weeks ago before it all kicked off in quite such a big way.

Conveyancers have informed us they're all working from home with no issues so it's business as usual from them, the only hurdle is collecting the keys from the EA. Current plan looks like we'll be combining shopping trips with the branch manager and she'll be tossing us the keys from 2m away!

Bracing myself for negative equity straight away as we're on a 95% LTV mortgage 🙄 I can't see houses dropping by less than 5% as much as I hope they don't!

sir humphrey appleby

1,523 posts

203 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
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We are due to complete and vacate on Friday. Spoke to removal company and they are still attending as long as we are kept out of the way. I’m bricking it to be honest.

V8 Stang

4,294 posts

164 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Im due to Move Thursday, i had a text from the movers (anyvan.com) today confirming will still go ahead.

Luckily i have already completed and have the keys, but am supposed to hand the keys back for my current rental at end of the week.

B235r

335 posts

30 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
156651 said:
B235r said:
We're due to move very soon, movers has just canceled today because virus if we don't move me & the wife are up fudge creak financially

Don't see how we can move if everythings shut but the ea don't seem worried at all

Where's our help Boris?!?!
Problem is, you need to complete as otherwise you are in breach of contract. If you are buying, you could lose deposit!


Yup that's the one, sold our house & bought another, we can't afford to keep living here & need to move meant to be completing on the 8th of April now we have no movers, local van hire is closed as of lastnight

Really beginning to feel like we're fked & can only see this virus thing getting worse

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
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fesuvious said:
Text from a BAR email this aft;

Propertymark (the National Association of Estate Agents) has spoken to a senior civil servant at the Ministry for Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) this morning. The civil servant stated
that agents are not “essential businesses” under the new rules and therefore their view is that agents should close their offices immediately. Furthermore, they stated that there should not be any in-person viewings, routine inspections or house moves. MHCLG
is still looking into property maintenance tasks such as gas safety checks and hopes to issue guidance on these points as soon as possible.
 
In a further development, British Association of Removers (BAR) has issued communications this morning instructing members that moves should only be completed if they are already underway, any move that has not yet started, should not go ahead.

ETA
It is grossly irresponsible for movers to be in homes. Handling items, soft items, furniture etc.

It's daft for homeowners to be happy having men they've never met and know nothing about spreading their germs onto, and into their possessions at this time.

As I wrote to the top chappy at Bold Legal Group this morning;

Conveyancers need to remember thy are in an office. Not in houses. If they have the balls to handle other people's stuff and breathe their air, then comment.

Otherwise they should shut up.

Edited by fesuvious on Tuesday 24th March 20:10
What happens to someone that is legally obliged to move out of their home and cannot?

Chrisgr31

12,788 posts

236 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
156651 said:
What happens to someone that is legally obliged to move out of their home and cannot?
Fairly sure the government have stated that no one will be evicted for a period of 3 months so if legally obliged you just dont move.

Chrisgr31

12,788 posts

236 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
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Kev_Mk3 said:
Most valuations are remote now not sending people to the property. saves costs for lenders
You sure? One reason for having a valuation is to ensure the property actually exists, isnt falling down etc. How do you do that remotely?

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Chrisgr31 said:
156651 said:
What happens to someone that is legally obliged to move out of their home and cannot?
Fairly sure the government have stated that no one will be evicted for a period of 3 months so if legally obliged you just dont move.
Concern is not so much for us moving from rented, but our vendors moving from the house that we are to acquire on 6 April. If they don't move out on 6 April, they are in breach of contract, and (at least legally if not morally) liable in damages for losses we incur (e.g. rent) until we complete; or we would have the right to rescind the contract, have our deposit returned with interest, and sue them for losses suffered (rent until we were able to buy somewhere?). Not straightforward.

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
fesuvious said:
They agree a delay.

I've spoken to God knows how many clients today who have done just that

3 of whom were completing Friday and have exchanged already.
All 3 of these have suggested 20/21st April

Edited by fesuvious on Tuesday 24th March 20:19
What if the buyer refuses to agree to a delay? What if the buyer says if you don't complete you are in material breach and we will rescind the sale contract (or tries to force a re-negotiation of price given economic circumstances have changed)? What happens if 20/21 April comes around and completion still can't take place, does delay continue forever? If there is delay and the buyer is currently in rented, who is paying their rent in the meantime - is the vendor going to accept they are in breach of contract and they are to contribute?

I don't know if contracts of sale often have force majeure clauses in them, but I cannot see one in the standard conditions.

Really not that straight-forward.

Edited by 156651 on Tuesday 24th March 20:49

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
fesuvious said:
Frustration,
Or Force Majeure.

Ultimately they'd have to sue. Chances of winning that? None in current circumstance.

I appreciate this is a forum, you don't know me and I you.

I've spent all day on this, wiping out and rearranging @£50k of home moves from next four weeks.

Much of the day also on phone, email and text with Solicitors, Movers, agents and HSBG, oh, and as load of the public.

Many many people are taking a reasonable approach.

There may be a handful of asshole outliers but I can only imagine how daft they'd feel trying to enforce the contract in a court. In current climate/circumstance they've got no chance.
If there isn't a force majeure clause in the sale contract, they cannot claim force majeure. Frustration could apply (not entirely clear on its limits), but it would have the effect of terminating the contract, which a vendor may not want.

I could quite imagine a circumstance where a buyer has second thoughts about the bargain struck given the crisis, and looks to terminate the contract on the basis of the vendor's material breach. The vendor cannot argue force majeure if there is no clause, and the doctrine of frustration would only mean the contract was terminated anyway. So what is the vendor that cannot move but wants the sale to be honoured to do? Keep the deposit and wait to be sued, is my guess, though cannot see how they would win.

The other point re. losses incurred by the buyer if completion doesn't take place - why should the buyer suffer the loss and not the vendor? The crisis is neither of their faults. Is it reasonable that the buyer pays rent indefinitely until the crisis blows over?

For the avoidance of doubt, this isn't what I am suggesting I am going to do. There are, however, lots of difficult questions, some of which cannot easily be answered, particularly if buyer and/or seller aren't willing to be reasonable (and one person's view of reasonable isn't necessarily anothers).

John Laverick

1,962 posts

195 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
We exchanged last Friday to a cash buyer in the South of France (obviously currently on lockdown). Completion 1st May.

We haven't exchanged on our purchase yet which is a new build due for completion Aug/Sept 20. High risk this will be delayed now.

Looks like we'll be moving into my wife's buy to let which luckily has just been vacated.

Should be interesting!

V8 Stang

4,294 posts

164 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Chrisgr31 said:
Fairly sure the government have stated that no one will be evicted for a period of 3 months so if legally obliged you just dont move.
But you would still have to pay the rent surely if you did not move.


If i do not move on Thursday, i will end up having to pay both rent and a mortgage, which would not be affordable.

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
fesuvious said:
You actually end that making the case for frustration.

You need to sit down with vendor/buyer.

Actually get round a table. Keep lawyers and agents out of it and talk, properly.

Unchartered waters untested times.

Take the contracts out of it for a moment. The world is (albeit temporarily) changed. Go communicate.
I spoke to the agent last week, refused to speak to the vendors about it, so no idea what their intention is (and no direct method of communication).

Discussions are one thing, but if agreement cannot be reached, then what?

Anyone have a view on whether it is reasonable for the buyer in such a circumstance to expect at least some contribution to their ongoing costs from the vendor? I can imagine we would be told to get lost if we asked for it, but not sure why we should be the ones shouldering the £1700 a month loss and not them.

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
V8 Stang said:
But you would still have to pay the rent surely if you did not move.


If i do not move on Thursday, i will end up having to pay both rent and a mortgage, which would not be affordable.
Presumably if you do not complete you do not have to pay your mortgage.

If you do complete but don't move, that's trickier.

V8 Stang

4,294 posts

164 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
156651 said:
Presumably if you do not complete you do not have to pay your mortgage.

If you do complete but don't move, that's trickier.
I have already completed, just need to move everything so that i can move in and depart rental!

156651

11,419 posts

66 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
fesuvious said:
I say this as a friend,

BULLst.

you're telling me you can't write to them, or knock the door, or look on social media?

I shall say to you as I have to thousands of movers. There is NO RULE preventing you from contacting them.
Well I am not allowed outside so cannot knock on their door. They are in their 80s so doubt they have social media. I'm sure if I pressed hard enough I could get a telephone number out of the agent, but ultimately we still intend to move so if they are to have difficulties completing, they should reach out to us, not us to them.

No comment on who should be liable for costs? It isn't yet clear to me what the reasonable position to adopt is.

GT89

354 posts

94 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Perfect timing for me to ask, for a friend not myself I hasten to add.

Chain was set to exchange last week, didn't happen and the buyers of their house (1st time threatened to pull out) they exchanged on risk.

We spent yesterday moving their house contents into storage, calling it a day around 1600. After listening to Boris we decided the best thing to do was complete moving all their stuff last night and them move into our spare room (this was always the plan incase exchange above didn't happen) at 0300 this morning we had moved everything in storage and got the hire van back home.

Solicitors/estate agents have said they are working remotely from home, doing remote key drops etc so don't see an issue with completing the chain on Friday.

I'm still very dubious about this happening but don't want to be the voice of doom.

They have not yet exchange the chain, the top of the chain want to exchange and complete the same day (friday)

What's the odds of all this happening ?