Is anyone moving now?

[princeperch]

It would be very bad form.

The bloke buying my house a few months back tried to chip me for ten grand 3.5 months into the process for very spurious reasons and 7 weeks after he had his survey done. I was absolutely fking livid at the time and ended up giving him 3k off very reluctantly but I was very very close to blowing the deal too just because it was poor form and clearly a shake down.

I think you really need to think carefully about him telling you to do one. If you have a reason to ask for money off that is sound then that is very different to being an opportunist and trying to shake someone down at the last minute. The seller will have done his Sums by now and will be placing reliance on those figures to make it all stack up. I personally don't think it's worth you risking it but it depends whether you are happy to play Russian roulette with him calling it all off.

[normalbloke]

bad company said:

C70R said:

Muzzer79 said:

You asked for opinions - “Thoughts”

Don’t get sensitive because you’ve received them.

I asked for the experiences of people who have done it before.

I got a load of angry keyboard warriors, who've never done it before, throwing personal insults at me.

Classic PH.

You asked for people’s thoughts and you got them.

Now you’re claiming to be a victim.

THAT’S classic PH.

[bad company]

normalbloke said:

bad company said:

C70R said:

Muzzer79 said:

You asked for opinions - “Thoughts”

Don’t get sensitive because you’ve received them.

I asked for the experiences of people who have done it before.

I got a load of angry keyboard warriors, who've never done it before, throwing personal insults at me.

Classic PH.

You asked for people’s thoughts and you got them.

Now you’re claiming to be a victim.

THAT’S classic PH.

Yep.

[skwdenyer]

Just to provide a little bit of balance, gazumping is still alive and well in some places. There are properties near me that have come back on the market at many £10ks over prior asking due to (so the agents tell me) the vendors pulling out because of the rising market (they wanted to get a better price). These are properties that had already "sold" at significant premiums to the original asking price.

I saw an ad on Rightmove the other day that said - quite openly - that any offers over £xxx would be considered up to the day of exchange.

If that's acceptable, gazundering should be treated no worse. It is, after all, a negotiation, a transaction not a relationship. If somebody did it to me, I wouldn't be morally hurt or offended by it, and I certainly wouldn't scrap a sale on principle - I'd just politely refuse if I thought my position strong enough.

Personally I'd prefer to see neither.

That said, given the ridiculous market over the last few months, people have been pushed into making offers based on nothing more than a half-hour viewing (or, even worse, based on virtual viewings - madness). 30 years ago, we'd go back for a 2nd or even 3rd viewing, and pore all over a property (including poking around in the roof, etc.), before making an offer.

I've lost out on a couple of houses where issues were very evident to me after doing homework pre-offer, but others offered based on the assumption of no issues to be found. Funnily enough, those properties have come back on the market, only to be "sold" again to more people doing no homework. I suspect they'll be back on the market again in due course.

TL;DR: I'd rather the OP didn't try it but, if he did, I certainly don't see why it would reasonably justify pulling the sale (as opposed to the vendor just saying "no"). But then humans get awfully emotional about stuff when they really shouldn't do

[Desiderata]

johnnyBv8 said:

Desiderata said:

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

Might not go the way you want.

Exactly this, someone tried to do it to me years ago. I bit the bullet, told them to fk off, then sold to the next highest bidder. I had the added advantage that this was in Scotland and I was able to sue the tt for the difference between his initial offer and the price I actually sold it for. It was only a couple of thousand pounds, but it was so sweet to screw him over instead of the other way around.

They did it after you’d concluded missives? The system is essentially very similar to England from a contracts perspective, though everyone thinks it isn’t ….there is no legal commitment in either Scotland or England until contracts are signed. This now tends to be just a few days before the sale completes.

Edited by johnnyBv8 on Saturday 9th July 13:47

They did it at 9am on the day that the sale was due to go through at noon. Allegedly on the advice of their lawyer right from the start of the bidding process. " Put in a high bid so you get it and we'll drop it at the last moment, they'll be too committed to say 'no' "

It was thirty years ago so the details are a bit hazy, but we sued (against the advice of our lawyer) and got the price difference, the cost of our bridging loan, and various legal and other expenses. I remember that we had to sit on it for a period of time (possibly a month?) to give them a chance to fulfill their side of the contract and that was a bit scary and expensive at the time.

[Wildfire]

C70R said:

I asked for the experiences of people who have done it before.

I got a load of angry keyboard warriors, who've never done it before, throwing personal insults at me.

Classic PH.

Gazumping and gazundering still happens and it’s up to you whether you want to do it or not.

Our last buyer said he “had to negotiate a good deal” as it was his culture. We walked away. The wife and I agreed from the outset any messing about and we wouldn’t want to deal with that person, given the way that the UK systems works you would always be at risk.

Similar to the place we are trying to move to. They accept a high offer a day after the open day and a week later after it was off the market they came back with a. Lower offer. They pulled out.

As before, business is business and as you seem to be fairly far down the process, so if you want to force something you are in a better position, especially given that it you don’t have the pressure of moving in (second place, IIRC), you just need to be prepared to lose out.

If the vendor is as well off as you say, then he may also not be desperate to sell.

[princeperch]

On a human level- I don't think it's fair. And I'm not having a massive pop at c70, perhaps, he thinks he has paid too much or is getting cold feet.

But the vendor is getting divorced and also selling his house. Tensions will be high. It's a big risk imo

[cayman-black]

IMO if I shook hands on a deal I would not go back but hey loads of people do and they still sleep at night. Would I like it done to me no fking way.

Oh and to add negotiation was done in April was it not?

Edited by cayman-black on Saturday 9th July 19:09

[C70R]

bad company said:

C70R said:

Muzzer79 said:

You asked for opinions - “Thoughts”

Don’t get sensitive because you’ve received them.

I asked for the experiences of people who have done it before.

I got a load of angry keyboard warriors, who've never done it before, throwing personal insults at me.

Classic PH.

You asked for people’s thoughts and you got them.

Now you’re claiming to be a victim.

I asked for input from people who had been in the same position. What I got was a load of unhappy keyboard warriors, who had zero experience of the thing I was asking for advice on, directing unpleasant personal abuse at me. I'd say that made me the victim of unprovoked abuse...

Unless you have a different, special definition of "victim" that I'm not aware of.

[C70R]

skwdenyer said:

Just to provide a little bit of balance, gazumping is still alive and well in some places. There are properties near me that have come back on the market at many £10ks over prior asking due to (so the agents tell me) the vendors pulling out because of the rising market (they wanted to get a better price). These are properties that had already "sold" at significant premiums to the original asking price.

I saw an ad on Rightmove the other day that said - quite openly - that any offers over £xxx would be considered up to the day of exchange.

If that's acceptable, gazundering should be treated no worse. It is, after all, a negotiation, a transaction not a relationship. If somebody did it to me, I wouldn't be morally hurt or offended by it, and I certainly wouldn't scrap a sale on principle - I'd just politely refuse if I thought my position strong enough.

Personally I'd prefer to see neither.

That said, given the ridiculous market over the last few months, people have been pushed into making offers based on nothing more than a half-hour viewing (or, even worse, based on virtual viewings - madness). 30 years ago, we'd go back for a 2nd or even 3rd viewing, and pore all over a property (including poking around in the roof, etc.), before making an offer.

I've lost out on a couple of houses where issues were very evident to me after doing homework pre-offer, but others offered based on the assumption of no issues to be found. Funnily enough, those properties have come back on the market, only to be "sold" again to more people doing no homework. I suspect they'll be back on the market again in due course.

TL;DR: I'd rather the OP didn't try it but, if he did, I certainly don't see why it would reasonably justify pulling the sale (as opposed to the vendor just saying "no"). But then humans get awfully emotional about stuff when they really shouldn't do

Thank you for the polite input, and I'm leaning towards agreeing with you, although still undecided.

On the point about emotion, you're absolutely right. Even asking a question here has clearly upset some people who've never experienced the situation directly. Staying dispassionate about things like this can help objectivity in general I find.

[C70R]

princeperch said:

On a human level- I don't think it's fair. And I'm not having a massive pop at c70, perhaps, he thinks he has paid too much or is getting cold feet.

But the vendor is getting divorced and also selling his house. Tensions will be high. It's a big risk imo

I don't think we've overpaid, and there are no cold feet. Just sounding out the thread about something that was discussed over a beer, to see if anyone had been in the same position.

[skwdenyer]

I’ll confess I’ve been tempted to over-bid on the assumption of later re-negotiation.

Why? Because it’s clearly not uncommon, given I can read the Land Registry sold price data, know something of the transactions in my local area, and so on.

Not helped, of course, by lying estate agents inventing offers to drive up prices.

Edited by skwdenyer on Saturday 9th July 20:36

[Frik]

A few people have detailed their experience. Just as a vendor, not a buyer. Their opinion is valid, even if you don't want to hear it.

My question would be: why? If you don't feel your offer is too high and you don't have another reason to adjust, why do you want a discount? Isn't it just taking advantage of the timing?

IMO you're taking a big risk in doing so. Pissing your vendor off is likely to backfire.

[edc]

I think it's a mistake to treat a house sale and purchase like an asset trade business deal. You only have to look at your own last posts in this thread and that if others to show people are invested in the process and the outcome. It can be an emotional roller coaster for some. To look at it as just numbers is like some sort of film cliche.

[princeperch]

edc said:

I think it's a mistake to treat a house sale and purchase like an asset trade business deal. You only have to look at your own last posts in this thread and that if others to show people are invested in the process and the outcome. It can be an emotional roller coaster for some. To look at it as just numbers is like some sort of film cliche.

There is an exception to that which are the we buy any houses lot. They offer you X and then later down the line offer you X which is normally the original figure minus a fair chunk. They come up with spurious reasons for doing so but it's clearly part of their business model. For them it is absolutely and almost entirely about the numbers.

I think when one bunch of humans are selling to another and everyone's hopes and fears and dreams are all bundled up in the deal, we need to treat others as we would wish to be treated ourselves.

Iirc c70 also said this bloke was a celebrity so he might not necessarily be hard up and be in a position to say fk off I'll remarket it tomorrow the deal is off.

[leef44]

C70R said:

skwdenyer said:

Just to provide a little bit of balance, gazumping is still alive and well in some places. There are properties near me that have come back on the market at many £10ks over prior asking due to (so the agents tell me) the vendors pulling out because of the rising market (they wanted to get a better price). These are properties that had already "sold" at significant premiums to the original asking price.

I saw an ad on Rightmove the other day that said - quite openly - that any offers over £xxx would be considered up to the day of exchange.

If that's acceptable, gazundering should be treated no worse. It is, after all, a negotiation, a transaction not a relationship. If somebody did it to me, I wouldn't be morally hurt or offended by it, and I certainly wouldn't scrap a sale on principle - I'd just politely refuse if I thought my position strong enough.

Personally I'd prefer to see neither.

That said, given the ridiculous market over the last few months, people have been pushed into making offers based on nothing more than a half-hour viewing (or, even worse, based on virtual viewings - madness). 30 years ago, we'd go back for a 2nd or even 3rd viewing, and pore all over a property (including poking around in the roof, etc.), before making an offer.

I've lost out on a couple of houses where issues were very evident to me after doing homework pre-offer, but others offered based on the assumption of no issues to be found. Funnily enough, those properties have come back on the market, only to be "sold" again to more people doing no homework. I suspect they'll be back on the market again in due course.

TL;DR: I'd rather the OP didn't try it but, if he did, I certainly don't see why it would reasonably justify pulling the sale (as opposed to the vendor just saying "no"). But then humans get awfully emotional about stuff when they really shouldn't do

Thank you for the polite input, and I'm leaning towards agreeing with you, although still undecided.

On the point about emotion, you're absolutely right. Even asking a question here has clearly upset some people who've never experienced the situation directly. Staying dispassionate about things like this can help objectivity in general I find.

This issue is if the vendor loses confidence/trust in your integrity. He might think what if he agrees to a discount then the day just before signing, you try again and ask for another discount. He may lose confidence and trust in this deal, leave him with a bad taste and decide to pull out.

You mentioned he was under a lot of stress. It may be irrational to you that he pulls out but it might just be too much for him to take.

At the end of the day, house purchase/selling is a stressful nightmare made worse with the conveyancing process we have. If we could stamp out all gazumping and gazundering then it would be all the better.

To encourage and be implicit in that behaviour is just plain immoral.

[C70R]

Frik said:

A few people have detailed their experience. Just as a vendor, not a buyer. Their opinion is valid, even if you don't want to hear it.

You're going to have to show me the examples of where I've argued people's opinions. I haven't. I just tried to call out the unpleasant and unprovoked abuse.

[C70R]

fesuvious said:

How far in advance of completion are you planning on exchanging?

Exchange is imminent, completion in around a month.

[Chamon_Lee]

Frik said:

A few people have detailed their experience. Just as a vendor, not a buyer. Their opinion is valid, even if you don't want to hear it.

My question would be: why? If you don't feel your offer is too high and you don't have another reason to adjust, why do you want a discount? Isn't it just taking advantage of the timing?

IMO you're taking a big risk in doing so. Pissing your vendor off is likely to backfire.

He’s giving the impression that if he can screw over the seller for a bit more then why not. But not too much that he would lose out himself.

[skwdenyer]

leef44 said:

This issue is if the vendor loses confidence/trust in your integrity. He might think what if he agrees to a discount then the day just before signing, you try again and ask for another discount. He may lose confidence and trust in this deal, leave him with a bad taste and decide to pull out.

You mentioned he was under a lot of stress. It may be irrational to you that he pulls out but it might just be too much for him to take.

At the end of the day, house purchase/selling is a stressful nightmare made worse with the conveyancing process we have. If we could stamp out all gazumping and gazundering then it would be all the better.

To encourage and be implicit in that behaviour is just plain immoral.

That’s true to a point. But the incidence (local to me, at least) of gazumping suggests we shouldn’t feel too sorry for vendors overall. As ever, it comes down to playing the player, not the ball - and if you can’t get face time with the vendor, why on earth would you trust them in the first place?