Changing company during works

[Kermit power]

StanleyT said:

Right decided what to do.

As 'luck' turned out I've lost my cashcard (*), don't know when, haven't used it for weeks not having been anywhere. I probably won't notice though until I go and get somecash out for the guys in a couple of weeks time when they are done and then I won't be able to get through to the bank on the phone and thebranch is shut. Looks like it'll have to be online banking so at least I can show who I've paid.

Annoyed as at first I though this might have been one of those "builders change invoices" scams where some third party gets you and the two lads who've done work here for years and going back 20 years for the previous owner seem honest and clued up chaps. I bet #3 is behind this.

And if i don't get an invoice then a call to HMRC might be on the cards. And to the poster that mentioned about warranties, why would I need one in this instance? In case the trees grow back?

(*) apart from at the local garden centre today which was having an "open day, all stock must go, cash only so no queues at the till"! so I have to go to the cashpoint first. What is it with cash these days!!!!!

So basically what you're saying is that you're happy to support these bds in taking advantage of a crisis to rip off all of us gullible taxpayers just so long as there's a paper trail?

Still, at least you'll be getting your trees cut down, eh?

[Flumpo]

Kermit power said:

StanleyT said:

Right decided what to do.

As 'luck' turned out I've lost my cashcard (*), don't know when, haven't used it for weeks not having been anywhere. I probably won't notice though until I go and get somecash out for the guys in a couple of weeks time when they are done and then I won't be able to get through to the bank on the phone and thebranch is shut. Looks like it'll have to be online banking so at least I can show who I've paid.

Annoyed as at first I though this might have been one of those "builders change invoices" scams where some third party gets you and the two lads who've done work here for years and going back 20 years for the previous owner seem honest and clued up chaps. I bet #3 is behind this.

And if i don't get an invoice then a call to HMRC might be on the cards. And to the poster that mentioned about warranties, why would I need one in this instance? In case the trees grow back?

(*) apart from at the local garden centre today which was having an "open day, all stock must go, cash only so no queues at the till"! so I have to go to the cashpoint first. What is it with cash these days!!!!!

So basically what you're saying is that you're happy to support these bds in taking advantage of a crisis to rip off all of us gullible taxpayers just so long as there's a paper trail?

Still, at least you'll be getting your trees cut down, eh?

It has made me think.

I’m going to email a South American cartel and ask for some fake cocaine. I’m going to put fake cocaine in block capitals just in case any of those war on drugs type agencies stick their nose in.

When it arrives I’m going to sell it along with copies of my email saying it’s fake cocaine.

If it turns out it was cocaine, I might fire another email off to serious crime unit letting them know how shocked and angry I am as they seemed nice fellows.

But back on topic I can understand op has been put in this situation by them. Feel sorry for op who just wanted some gardening done.

[StanleyT]

Kermit power said:

StanleyT said:

Right decided what to do.

As 'luck' turned out I've lost my cashcard (*), don't know when, haven't used it for weeks not having been anywhere. I probably won't notice though until I go and get somecash out for the guys in a couple of weeks time when they are done and then I won't be able to get through to the bank on the phone and thebranch is shut. Looks like it'll have to be online banking so at least I can show who I've paid.

Annoyed as at first I though this might have been one of those "builders change invoices" scams where some third party gets you and the two lads who've done work here for years and going back 20 years for the previous owner seem honest and clued up chaps. I bet #3 is behind this.

And if i don't get an invoice then a call to HMRC might be on the cards. And to the poster that mentioned about warranties, why would I need one in this instance? In case the trees grow back?

(*) apart from at the local garden centre today which was having an "open day, all stock must go, cash only so no queues at the till"! so I have to go to the cashpoint first. What is it with cash these days!!!!!

So basically what you're saying is that you're happy to support these bds in taking advantage of a crisis to rip off all of us gullible taxpayers just so long as there's a paper trail?

Still, at least you'll be getting your trees cut down, eh?

Did you read the bit about the trees being damaged in the storm in the winter and that one tree that when falling will cause quite a lot of damage, and cost a darn site more to fix that damage than what I'm paying out at the mo (and for the economy of scale before CV-19 getting some other jobs done).

[Ooops, I didn't explicitly state that, it is inferred it via 'garden services for trees about to fall down are essential, so we can work' - but basically we've three trees 80 ft high and the middle one is split held up by the other two, which are both showing the same disease - the trees are 80% of the works, the rest is minor tidying up and replacing the whole aged fence, of which some was damaged by falling braches off the tree in Feb].

Already got sweaty hairy plums with the wind getting up today for the first time in weeks, the creaking is not calming! This should have been done a couple of months ago!!!!!!

An no, I'm not happy, why do you think I started the thread, I smelt a rat and wondered what to do. I just couldn't tell at first what flavour rat, I thought more a general invoice scam nd my neighbour was winding me up, but the consensus seems furlough scam. Will provide a good printout to send to HMRC if I need to!!!!! (Print to pdf hit now).

[CAPP0]

I confess I'm left wondering whether these tree surgeons have strong Irish accents?

[StanleyT]

'Fraid not. And I know where #1 and #2 live and have lived so no 3.14keys to be blamed here.

Checked companies house Beta on company 1 and still trading, plus all previous records look legit.

One of my neighbours has found out I've got work restarting next week "how dare I bring workmen onto our road in lockdown...........!". FFS who has been emptying your bins then for the last seven weeks!!!!!!

[CAPP0]

Fair enough

[guitarcarfanatic]

StanleyT said:

Did you read the bit about the trees being damaged in the storm in the winter and that one tree that when falling will cause quite a lot of damage, and cost a darn site more to fix that damage than what I'm paying out at the mo (and for the economy of scale before CV-19 getting some other jobs done).

[Ooops, I didn't explicitly state that, it is inferred it via 'garden services for trees about to fall down are essential, so we can work' - but basically we've three trees 80 ft high and the middle one is split held up by the other two, which are both showing the same disease - the trees are 80% of the works, the rest is minor tidying up and replacing the whole aged fence, of which some was damaged by falling braches off the tree in Feb].

Already got sweaty hairy plums with the wind getting up today for the first time in weeks, the creaking is not calming! This should have been done a couple of months ago!!!!!!

An no, I'm not happy, why do you think I started the thread, I smelt a rat and wondered what to do. I just couldn't tell at first what flavour rat, I thought more a general invoice scam nd my neighbour was winding me up, but the consensus seems furlough scam. Will provide a good printout to send to HMRC if I need to!!!!! (Print to pdf hit now).

Just make sure you don't pay VAT unless you get a VAT number that matches the new company. It's 20% discount if they cannot produce.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

Well after Boris's 19:00 announcement these 'dodgy' tree surgeons in question can go back to work for Company 1 (the one that doesn't require cash payments) by my reckoning.

[Kermit power]

StanleyT said:

Did you read the bit about the trees being damaged in the storm in the winter and that one tree that when falling will cause quite a lot of damage, and cost a darn site more to fix that damage than what I'm paying out at the mo (and for the economy of scale before CV-19 getting some other jobs done).

[Ooops, I didn't explicitly state that, it is inferred it via 'garden services for trees about to fall down are essential, so we can work' - but basically we've three trees 80 ft high and the middle one is split held up by the other two, which are both showing the same disease - the trees are 80% of the works, the rest is minor tidying up and replacing the whole aged fence, of which some was damaged by falling braches off the tree in Feb].

Already got sweaty hairy plums with the wind getting up today for the first time in weeks, the creaking is not calming! This should have been done a couple of months ago!!!!!!

An no, I'm not happy, why do you think I started the thread, I smelt a rat and wondered what to do. I just couldn't tell at first what flavour rat, I thought more a general invoice scam nd my neighbour was winding me up, but the consensus seems furlough scam. Will provide a good printout to send to HMRC if I need to!!!!! (Print to pdf hit now).

You said in your first post that they'd already done the prep work, which included clearing things that could be damaged by falling wood.

There is absolutely no legal and above board reason why they couldn't do the work as company one, but can do it as company two. I don't know if you've got children, but I do. They're going to be paying increased tax for years after I eventually retire to pay for all this Covid crap, and the chances are my as yet unborn grandchildren will as well!

You have my sympathy if you're at risk of a tree falling on the house or garage or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that if someone tried this on me, I'd be on to HMRC or the police the second I got finished talking to them, as the thought of people profiteering out of all this to double their wage at the expense of decent, law-abiding people would drive me absolutely up the wall.

Of course there's nothing to stop you anonymously calling it in after you've had the tree cut down, I suppose.

[StanleyT]

Well the work was done.

Asked about payment.

Company 2 (only the two guys we knew from company 1 did the work) now had a bank a/c and gave us a VAT invoice.

When we asked about the switch of companies and the cash / here are your bank machines messages all seeming a bit strange to us we got the full story.

Company 1 did contract gardening and invoiced at completion of work for payment nett 30 days. Basically staring mid March every "rich tawt in Cheshire and Mersyside" that claimed it is unsafe to allow workers into their gardens" decided not to pay or cancel jobs completed! The change of company / cashpoint list was a 'white of eyes test' to filter out any other customers taking them on for jobs whom were then going to excuse on payment due to furlucking or other CV-19 excuses.

Company 1 will probably go under due to 70% of March invoices unpaid. But they had enough money to pay their wages if not other expenses like fuel, kit, serviing kit, future tax etc.

Company 2 have had a number of calls from potential clients (co-incidentally who used in the past company 1 but couldn't afford to pay in March or April 2020) that who need a new "Gardening Service", some quite desperately as the local tips are not yet open for green waste so hedges and gardens are getting overgrown badly with the glorious spring we have had.

Company 2 are booked up unfortunately for months with "payment in advance" contracts. Seems a few people playing the system are getting their hands faced to them on a plate.....but it wasn't the ones I expected playing the system.

(A bit of our job did get foobared but that was out poor 'client spec' now in hindsight!).

[Kermit power]

StanleyT said:

Well the work was done.

Asked about payment.

Company 2 (only the two guys we knew from company 1 did the work) now had a bank a/c and gave us a VAT invoice.

When we asked about the switch of companies and the cash / here are your bank machines messages all seeming a bit strange to us we got the full story.

Company 1 did contract gardening and invoiced at completion of work for payment nett 30 days. Basically staring mid March every "rich tawt in Cheshire and Mersyside" that claimed it is unsafe to allow workers into their gardens" decided not to pay or cancel jobs completed! The change of company / cashpoint list was a 'white of eyes test' to filter out any other customers taking them on for jobs whom were then going to excuse on payment due to furlucking or other CV-19 excuses.

Company 1 will probably go under due to 70% of March invoices unpaid. But they had enough money to pay their wages if not other expenses like fuel, kit, serviing kit, future tax etc.

Company 2 have had a number of calls from potential clients (co-incidentally who used in the past company 1 but couldn't afford to pay in March or April 2020) that who need a new "Gardening Service", some quite desperately as the local tips are not yet open for green waste so hedges and gardens are getting overgrown badly with the glorious spring we have had.

Company 2 are booked up unfortunately for months with "payment in advance" contracts. Seems a few people playing the system are getting their hands faced to them on a plate.....but it wasn't the ones I expected playing the system.

(A bit of our job did get foobared but that was out poor 'client spec' now in hindsight!).

So presumably they'd be able to prove if asked by HMRC that they weren't furloughed by company one?

[C Lee Farquar]

Kermit power said:

So presumably they'd be able to prove if asked by HMRC that they weren't furloughed by company one?

Assuming they were, are they prevented from working for another Company owned by them?

[Kermit power]

C Lee Farquar said:

Assuming they were, are they prevented from working for another Company owned by them?

Pretty sure that would be a textbook example of fraud, no?

[C Lee Farquar]

Morally reprehensible (not that we know it's happening here)

I understand if you are furloughed you can work for another Company. Did the Treasury think to preclude Companies of the same ownership?

I like to give people the benefit of doubt but setting up a new Company because of bad debts through cornavirus? It makes no sense the timeline is too short, IMO.