Expensive paint or stick to Dulux
Discussion
darreni said:
I going to paint with anti reflex 2 tomorrow for the first time. Any tips?
I used it on some walls and all the ceilings in my house. It goes on really easy. The coloured emulsion I have used is the Little Green absolute matt which is okay too.
For the woodwork I have used Benjamin Moore Scuff-X which is expensive, but great paint to use.
guitarcarfanatic said:
And you can buy direct - I use their furniture paint and it's amazing. Haven't tried their matt, but suspect it is also top notch.
I’ve been doing this, many lockdown feature wallsLovely stuff
Great range
Great service with next day deliver if ordered before 2pm
Also done some exterior woodwork, used Jotun Demidek, brilliant stuff
F&B is brilliant looking but not hard wearing, not worth it if you have kids or pets I’d say
When we did our last house, I used F&B. Lovely finish but expensive, poor coverage on some colours, and not particularly tough.
This time around, I used Leyland Trade and DUlux Diamond for high traffic areas, mixed to an approximation of F&B colours. This was much cheaper - but remember that you will never really get the same mix twice, so I laid in some spare tins for touch-ups. Don't think you will be able to touch up with an F&B sample pot, for example.
As for colour, you will never get the actual F&B colour or finish as, as others have said, they use chalk and the brands I chose did not. However a) colour is completely subjective and different walls will look completely different at different times of day anyway, and b) a scrubbable matt paint gives a pretty decent finish, I found. I also picked a soft sheen for some rooms, especially bathrooms where resistance to moisture and watermarks is important. So the colour would never be the same as an F&B matt, but near enough for design purposes.
One exception - the woodwork and wall under dado rails was done in oil paint. It's just tougher. Also had it mixed to an F&B approximation. Wipes clean completely from toddler hand marks going up the stairs and takes a real beating.
Some pics:
F&B Green Smoke mixed in Leyland
DSC_0643.jpg by baconrashers, on Flickr
The same room in daytime shows the vast variation in a single shade depending on light. The door is F&B Studio Green done in a Leyland oil sheen paint, by the way:
Hamptons17 by baconrashers, on Flickr
F&B Light Blue mixed in Leyland - this looks grey in the pics but is actually a very nice, classic light grey-blue.
Fox4 by baconrashers, on Flickr
F&B Downpipe mixed in a tough bathroom sheen paint
Hamptons11 by baconrashers, on Flickr
F&B Studio Green mixed in Leyland
Hamptons7 by baconrashers, on Flickr
Woodwork and wall under dado rail painted in F&B Ammonite, Leyland oil paint.
Fox2 by baconrashers, on Flickr
Fox11 by baconrashers, on Flickr
20180815_094656 by baconrashers, on Flickr
We did not just use F&B colours - other rooms were picked from other brands or the RAL colour chart. But you will see that the pictures above don't look much like the F&B pictures of their colours. More important is getting a shade youlike, putting cards painted with the sample colour on the walls and looking at them in different light at different times of day. You'll realise pretty quickly that colours change constantly in your perception, so the exact shade does not matter too much.
Paint quality (ease of going on, finishing and toughness) should really inform your decision more than the exact shade, IMHO. And I have to say that although it is a pig to work with compared to water based, oil paint on wood does seem to just be tougher - we did the last house's staircase in an F&B water based wood paint, and this house in oil. The wear in this house has been far, far better. 3 years now with no touch-ups required, and it cleans really easily.
This time around, I used Leyland Trade and DUlux Diamond for high traffic areas, mixed to an approximation of F&B colours. This was much cheaper - but remember that you will never really get the same mix twice, so I laid in some spare tins for touch-ups. Don't think you will be able to touch up with an F&B sample pot, for example.
As for colour, you will never get the actual F&B colour or finish as, as others have said, they use chalk and the brands I chose did not. However a) colour is completely subjective and different walls will look completely different at different times of day anyway, and b) a scrubbable matt paint gives a pretty decent finish, I found. I also picked a soft sheen for some rooms, especially bathrooms where resistance to moisture and watermarks is important. So the colour would never be the same as an F&B matt, but near enough for design purposes.
One exception - the woodwork and wall under dado rails was done in oil paint. It's just tougher. Also had it mixed to an F&B approximation. Wipes clean completely from toddler hand marks going up the stairs and takes a real beating.
Some pics:
F&B Green Smoke mixed in Leyland
DSC_0643.jpg by baconrashers, on FlickrThe same room in daytime shows the vast variation in a single shade depending on light. The door is F&B Studio Green done in a Leyland oil sheen paint, by the way:
Hamptons17 by baconrashers, on FlickrF&B Light Blue mixed in Leyland - this looks grey in the pics but is actually a very nice, classic light grey-blue.
Fox4 by baconrashers, on FlickrF&B Downpipe mixed in a tough bathroom sheen paint
Hamptons11 by baconrashers, on FlickrF&B Studio Green mixed in Leyland
Hamptons7 by baconrashers, on FlickrWoodwork and wall under dado rail painted in F&B Ammonite, Leyland oil paint.
Fox2 by baconrashers, on FlickrFox11 by baconrashers, on Flickr20180815_094656 by baconrashers, on FlickrWe did not just use F&B colours - other rooms were picked from other brands or the RAL colour chart. But you will see that the pictures above don't look much like the F&B pictures of their colours. More important is getting a shade youlike, putting cards painted with the sample colour on the walls and looking at them in different light at different times of day. You'll realise pretty quickly that colours change constantly in your perception, so the exact shade does not matter too much.
Paint quality (ease of going on, finishing and toughness) should really inform your decision more than the exact shade, IMHO. And I have to say that although it is a pig to work with compared to water based, oil paint on wood does seem to just be tougher - we did the last house's staircase in an F&B water based wood paint, and this house in oil. The wear in this house has been far, far better. 3 years now with no touch-ups required, and it cleans really easily.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Sunday 5th July 22:30
Edited by Harry Flashman on Sunday 5th July 22:32
Harry Flashman said:
Thanks for the tip on the window paint. The Dulux Weathershield black the window guy used when refurbishing the sash windows is rubbish and has not stood up well. Needs a good oil paint I think.
It’s worth the money. I’ve just repainted some windows that were done 10 years ago in Little Greene oil based paint. They had started to flake but the windows were sound. Another tip if rubbing back to bare wood is to soak in weathershield wood preservative before the Little Greene primer. Seems to have helped considering the windows get absolutely battered in the winter up here in the wilds of Wales. Nice pad btw
Harry Flashman said:
Thanks for the tip on the window paint. The Dulux Weathershield black the window guy used when refurbishing the sash windows is rubbish and has not stood up well. Needs a good oil paint I think.
I never used water based wood paint, I am really picky about the finish and a terrible brush painter, and that just doesn't work out for me with water based gunk!Weathershield used to be awesome 20 years or so back - my parents were very much the "money no object" types when it came to outside stuff and my dad would always specify Weathershield for masonry and woodwork. They would go about ten years between painting binges and the stuff was never even looking tatty by then, they just wanted a change to another variation of off white.
The removal of VOC’s from oil paint has affected the performance.
It’ll get better (I hope), just as it did after they stopped adding lead, but it will take years.
Dulux still struggle - if you have a tin of their trade oil satinwood, when it’s been opened and used the next time you open it there’s a layer of water on top of the paint.
Oil and water...
Back in the early 1980’s, weathershield didn’t really exist and we always used just normal Dulux oil undercoat and gloss externally, without any issues or longevity problems.
It’ll get better (I hope), just as it did after they stopped adding lead, but it will take years.
Dulux still struggle - if you have a tin of their trade oil satinwood, when it’s been opened and used the next time you open it there’s a layer of water on top of the paint.
Oil and water...
Back in the early 1980’s, weathershield didn’t really exist and we always used just normal Dulux oil undercoat and gloss externally, without any issues or longevity problems.
Harry Flashman said:
Thanks for the tip on the window paint. The Dulux Weathershield black the window guy used when refurbishing the sash windows is rubbish and has not stood up well. Needs a good oil paint I think.
The painter coming to do our external woodwork said Weathershield was "ok" in terms of quality for the price and obviously has the advantage of being easily available from the local DIY shop if you ever need to colour match or do some touch ups, but that it just didn't last. He suggested the Dulux Trade Opaque solvent based, so that's what we are going with - just need to decide the colour - (another advantage of the Weathershield - they have a selection of colours and you don't need to overthink which particular shade of grey you want...)
A vote for Benjamin Moore paint. I've just started doing our internal woodwork using their water based eggshell. Applies nicely with a good synthetic brush or short pile roller, good coverage (self undercoating) and drys with a nice low sheen. Wet the brush first and I've not had any issues & it leaves a nice smooth finish with no brush marks.
Not easy to get hold (other than direct) & reasonably expensive but you can get near on 4 litres for £80. The Chantilly lace is a nice white but not a cold in your face pure brilliant white.
Not easy to get hold (other than direct) & reasonably expensive but you can get near on 4 litres for £80. The Chantilly lace is a nice white but not a cold in your face pure brilliant white.
I cant add much more to it than that.
There is nothing wrong with dulux/johnsons emulsion, infact its good for what it is. It is what I used on my first house, in my 20's with two lodgers and mainly in the garage or garden anyway if not at a mates house. It is often as said also more durable, so suitable for the kitchen, bathroom, back porch, likely more child friendly. Only ever used matt, nothing 'washable' or with a shean. Mosto of it goes on as well as any other, dont get suckers into cheap paints such as the bottom step crown white which went on like water, and some tp trade magnolia left behind by the previous owners was also hateful to apply and powdering once on.
However while I have not used F&B or LittleGreen yet (simply as we keep picking colours from other brands) the likes of Designers Guild, Paint and Paper, Sandersons have a finish and a depth of colour that you don't get elsewhere, which they say is down to the use of natural pigments and I am sure they are right. I also find them a pleasure to apply and to cover really well. Only thing I would add is if using them over new lining paper on a large room again I would likely do the first coat either in a plain white or something mixed up to match.
For ceilings we are using Macphersons Eclipse for hall/landing/kitchen etc and Dulux Trade SuperMatt for the posh rooms, including for the mist coat on freshly repaired ceilings.
Daniel
There is nothing wrong with dulux/johnsons emulsion, infact its good for what it is. It is what I used on my first house, in my 20's with two lodgers and mainly in the garage or garden anyway if not at a mates house. It is often as said also more durable, so suitable for the kitchen, bathroom, back porch, likely more child friendly. Only ever used matt, nothing 'washable' or with a shean. Mosto of it goes on as well as any other, dont get suckers into cheap paints such as the bottom step crown white which went on like water, and some tp trade magnolia left behind by the previous owners was also hateful to apply and powdering once on.
However while I have not used F&B or LittleGreen yet (simply as we keep picking colours from other brands) the likes of Designers Guild, Paint and Paper, Sandersons have a finish and a depth of colour that you don't get elsewhere, which they say is down to the use of natural pigments and I am sure they are right. I also find them a pleasure to apply and to cover really well. Only thing I would add is if using them over new lining paper on a large room again I would likely do the first coat either in a plain white or something mixed up to match.
For ceilings we are using Macphersons Eclipse for hall/landing/kitchen etc and Dulux Trade SuperMatt for the posh rooms, including for the mist coat on freshly repaired ceilings.
Daniel
MellowshipSlinky said:
The removal of VOC’s from oil paint has affected the performance.
It’ll get better (I hope), just as it did after they stopped adding lead, but it will take years.
Dulux still struggle - if you have a tin of their trade oil satinwood, when it’s been opened and used the next time you open it there’s a layer of water on top of the paint.
Oil and water...
Back in the early 1980’s, weathershield didn’t really exist and we always used just normal Dulux oil undercoat and gloss externally, without any issues or longevity problems.
I think someone here a while remarked that little greene had come up with an oil based paint that slipped in just below the absolute max VOC content? May not be the case now though.It’ll get better (I hope), just as it did after they stopped adding lead, but it will take years.
Dulux still struggle - if you have a tin of their trade oil satinwood, when it’s been opened and used the next time you open it there’s a layer of water on top of the paint.
Oil and water...
Back in the early 1980’s, weathershield didn’t really exist and we always used just normal Dulux oil undercoat and gloss externally, without any issues or longevity problems.
Heh. Actually I need to paint the flat rads wall coloured, or house them, one of the many jobs left to do. The house had already had the plumbing done when we bought it, so only the kitchen, hallways, and living room have fancier rads fitted by me, and tI fitted towel rails in the bathrooms as they were all new (house only had one bathroom when we bought it!
Bedrooms (and TV room) have the standard Type 22 radiators that came with the place still installed. So on a paint thread, tips for a decent radiator primer would be good! I can use Zinsser BIN, but it is smelly and evil stuff and I avoid it if possible.I think I will colour match to the walls and then use a matt lacquer of some description.
The "fake cast iron" rads are tubular steel in a raw finish. Wall hung, so cast iron would be too heavy, and also takes too long to heat up - I use a smart heating system so radiators need to heat up quickly, rather than take a while to get hot and then stay warm for ages.
Bedrooms (and TV room) have the standard Type 22 radiators that came with the place still installed. So on a paint thread, tips for a decent radiator primer would be good! I can use Zinsser BIN, but it is smelly and evil stuff and I avoid it if possible.I think I will colour match to the walls and then use a matt lacquer of some description.
The "fake cast iron" rads are tubular steel in a raw finish. Wall hung, so cast iron would be too heavy, and also takes too long to heat up - I use a smart heating system so radiators need to heat up quickly, rather than take a while to get hot and then stay warm for ages.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Monday 6th July 12:58
guindilias said:
MellowshipSlinky said:
The removal of VOC’s from oil paint has affected the performance.
It’ll get better (I hope), just as it did after they stopped adding lead, but it will take years.
Dulux still struggle - if you have a tin of their trade oil satinwood, when it’s been opened and used the next time you open it there’s a layer of water on top of the paint.
Oil and water...
Back in the early 1980’s, weathershield didn’t really exist and we always used just normal Dulux oil undercoat and gloss externally, without any issues or longevity problems.
I think someone here a while remarked that little greene had come up with an oil based paint that slipped in just below the absolute max VOC content? May not be the case now though.It’ll get better (I hope), just as it did after they stopped adding lead, but it will take years.
Dulux still struggle - if you have a tin of their trade oil satinwood, when it’s been opened and used the next time you open it there’s a layer of water on top of the paint.
Oil and water...
Back in the early 1980’s, weathershield didn’t really exist and we always used just normal Dulux oil undercoat and gloss externally, without any issues or longevity problems.
DSC_0711.jpg by baconrashers, on Flickr
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