Patio Costs - Am I being ripped off?

[anonymous-user]

Probably a bit of Covid tax included in that invoice, still no excuse for blowing the estimate that badly without talking to the client first.

Depending upon where you are in the works I would seriously consider kicking them off site for that.

[Uncle John]

Meeten-5dulx said:

Uncle John said:

What slabs are they?
They look nice.

Thanks, it is Bradstone Natural Sandstone Imperial Green.

There are pinks, greys & ambers in the slab colours but the overall effect is of a subtle light green. This is more noticeable when it’s wet. We chose it as a transition from the colour of the house to the green of the grass.

The good thing with natural sandstone is that each slab is unique, with many different patterns.

Edited by Uncle John on Thursday 17th September 07:27

[p1stonhead]

CharlesElliott said:

p1stonhead said:

That’s extortionate.

I haven’t done it yet but am looking to do so next April so if you can do a top quality job for less, let me know! It’s 10mm tiles so there will be 70 sqm of screed to do first.

Why not just go 20mm and do away with the screed? Do you need to build up the levels? It’ll be much cheaper in sub base than screed.

Personally even with a screed I’d not want 10mm outside. Heavy stuff is often shifted about outside unlike the inside. One drop and it’ll easily crack a 10mm.

[ooid]

Done my patio with paving bricks in June. 55 sq meters in total, and needed loads of preparation and cleaning. Total cost was 3.5k, all inclusive (material + labour). The location is East London, and took about 5 days with three lads to do all, top guys I can recommend if you want their details.

[m3jappa]

It is expensive theres no doubt, what sort of spec did they do? how long did it take from dig out to finish?

Often these threads come up and its all relative and its also very regional. Muck away, aggregates, labours costs, housing and living costs vary across the country.

The you have to be aware large numbers of people in the building trade operate illegally, or at least they do round here. Cash in hand, pay their lads cash, not got proper public liability, not vat reg, nicked tools. It all goes on i assure you.

Then couple all of that type of behaviour to someone who bangs work out which isn't actually very good. Some people can be really cheap and actually earn significantly more than the 'rip off' bloke, you know the one who employs people legally, is insured properly, has legit equipment and does a perfect job and will come back if theres any issues.

It is expensive but then so is getting the cowboys in and then having to pay to have it re done properly

All the above said and done i wish i could charge that for me personaly i feel i have to be competitive, do the best job i can and not rip them off. I dont want to be doing hundreds of quotes chancing my arm ill find someone silly enough to pay it.

I suppose the blokes charged strong money as he just assumes he's got the job, mind you i just remembered he gave an estimate and then tripled it. Thats bang out of order actually. Just not acceptable.

[Harry Flashman]

Mine was around £150 a square metre, and this was two years ago. London, SW2, and done in sandstone. It did include steps which required foundations, but still. Not cheap.

At the time, I was getting far higher quotes, and nothing much cheaper. It wraps around down both sides of the house.

I have to say that whilst I got the interior of my place done for what i consider to be a pretty good price, with ruthless project management and knowing what I was doing, getting the outside done has been expensive. I only really hit my target budget because we did so well on the house. Garden, patio and driveway have all cost a bomb.

Untitled by baconrashers, on Flickr

20200325_090020 by baconrashers, on Flickr

Edited by Harry Flashman on Thursday 17th September 22:01

[XJ75]

Bit of an update, builder has said he can't breakdown the materials because the invoices were all mixed in with other works. This makes me wonder how he knows how much to charge us. But the breakdown of labour and materials is £6,000 labour and £3,300 materials. That includes one skip.

Don't forget this still doesn't include slabs, so presumably the materials can only include hardcore, sand, cement and grout.

[PrinceRupert]

XJ75 said:

Bit of an update, builder has said he can't breakdown the materials because the invoices were all mixed in with other works. This makes me wonder how he knows how much to charge us. But the breakdown of labour and materials is £6,000 labour and £3,300 materials. That includes one skip.

Don't forget this still doesn't include slabs, so presumably the materials can only include hardcore, sand, cement and grout.

That's a lot of hardcore, sand, cement and grout ...

[XJ75]

I'd imagine he would have got a fair amount of hardcore when knocking down walls as part of the main extension works too, I'm no expert though.

[Tin Hat]

XJ75 said:

Bit of an update, builder has said he can't breakdown the materials because the invoices were all mixed in with other works. This makes me wonder how he knows how much to charge us. But the breakdown of labour and materials is £6,000 labour and £3,300 materials. That includes one skip.

Don't forget this still doesn't include slabs, so presumably the materials can only include hardcore, sand, cement and grout.

It sounds a bit heavy, but not crazy expensive.

We do about £100k of building work a week, mostly using our own labour, but also using subcontractors. This type of situation also happens to us occasionally, it would not be uncommon to broker a deal to conclude it. If we found ourselves in your position, we would typically pay 60 or 70 percent of the value ‘on account’ so that the tension about cash flow is not a factor. We would then aim to wrap up a deal as part of the final account.

Pay him some money toward it and revisit the matter when he finishes everything to your satisfaction - Time often eases people’s expectations!

Good luck with it

[Tin Hat]

( and not being able to break down the materials is not an excuse that we would tolerate )

[p1stonhead]

XJ75 said:

Bit of an update, builder has said he can't breakdown the materials because the invoices were all mixed in with other works. This makes me wonder how he knows how much to charge us. But the breakdown of labour and materials is £6,000 labour and £3,300 materials. That includes one skip.

Don't forget this still doesn't include slabs, so presumably the materials can only include hardcore, sand, cement and grout.

£3300 materials excluding slabs for a 55m2 patio?!

And that means his labour rate is £120/m2 of literal labour excluding materials like sand, cement etc.

That’s just insane.

[XJ75]

During the works there were pretty much always two people on site, looking at his numbers I think he has sent two tradesmen rather than a tradesman and a labourer. Is this normal practise?

[Rick101]

garyhun said:

Admittedly this is York, not Surrey, but I'm getting a limestone patio installed by my builder for a complete price, including the slabs and all materials, of £66/sqM

Sounds reasonable.
I'm after some work doing. Will PM you.

Didn't think twice on my quote of £1800 for about 10m2 really. Not until reading this and wondering if it's excessive.
Just checked first three websites on Google. All booked up until Spring and not taking work on.
Will keep checking and at least get a second quote. I do wonder if it's superfluous as we all know a skilled tradesman that actually does the job and does it properly is worth paying the extra for.

Edited by Rick101 on Friday 18th September 12:24

[anonymous-user]

I've had a couple of people PM me so I should have stated earlier that this price is with my builder who's doing my home refurbishment project. They don't do patio work on its own.

Sorry for the misleading post

[mikeiow]

m3jappa said:

It is expensive theres no doubt, what sort of spec did they do? how long did it take from dig out to finish?

Often these threads come up and its all relative and its also very regional. Muck away, aggregates, labours costs, housing and living costs vary across the country.

The you have to be aware large numbers of people in the building trade operate illegally, or at least they do round here. Cash in hand, pay their lads cash, not got proper public liability, not vat reg, nicked tools. It all goes on i assure you.

Then couple all of that type of behaviour to someone who bangs work out which isn't actually very good. Some people can be really cheap and actually earn significantly more than the 'rip off' bloke, you know the one who employs people legally, is insured properly, has legit equipment and does a perfect job and will come back if theres any issues.

It is expensive but then so is getting the cowboys in and then having to pay to have it re done properly

All the above said and done i wish i could charge that for me personaly i feel i have to be competitive, do the best job i can and not rip them off. I dont want to be doing hundreds of quotes chancing my arm ill find someone silly enough to pay it.

I suppose the blokes charged strong money as he just assumes he's got the job, mind you i just remembered he gave an estimate and then tripled it. Thats bang out of order actually. Just not acceptable.

Yup, agree with this.
We had a quote of around £140/sqm for a small area to blend in some stone, to include tiles and all materials. Reminded me I need to chase that up & get it done!

[Lesgrandepotato]

Strong money, but laying 800 * 800 slabs outside is pretty unforgiving. Not easy to get a really nice finish without a chunk of time.

Much harder than smaller stuff in my opinion. At least the were porcelain so should have been pretty flat and well graded.

[pmanson]

We've just had our garden landscaped. It's not easy to drill down into all the details but hopefully this will give you some context.

The total was £15k

• Clad existing 11.4m rear wall in brick cladding and porcelain paving stone - £1,440
• Removal of existing side flowerbeds and create two more in engineering blocks and clad - £470
• Removal of existing shed base, excavation and disposal of circa 60 tonnes of sand, build of new retaining walls - £3,780
• Raise of height of existing front walls, modify existing steps, brick cladding and porcelain coping stone - £1,850
• New porcelain steps - £250
• Brick edging of lawn and new lawn - £1,300
• 50sqm of porcelain paving stone

Not including - new fence and electrical work

[Trophy Husband]

pmanson said:

We've just had our garden landscaped. It's not easy to drill down into all the details but hopefully this will give you some context.

The total was £15k

• Clad existing 11.4m rear wall in brick cladding and porcelain paving stone - £1,440
• Removal of existing side flowerbeds and create two more in engineering blocks and clad - £470
• Removal of existing shed base, excavation and disposal of circa 60 tonnes of sand, build of new retaining walls - £3,780
• Raise of height of existing front walls, modify existing steps, brick cladding and porcelain coping stone - £1,850
• New porcelain steps - £250
• Brick edging of lawn and new lawn - £1,300
• 50sqm of porcelain paving stone

Not including - new fence and electrical work

That is more like it. You've got an added value feature which is a usable space and well executed. I really like what you've done as you could add a lovely log burner to one of the corners, flued out, for not a lot of money and use the space all year round.
It makes north of £9k for 55m2 (lay only) look like a proper rip off.
Nice job.

[Vanden Saab]

Lesgrandepotato said:

Strong money, but laying 800 * 800 slabs outside is pretty unforgiving. Not easy to get a really nice finish without a chunk of time.

Much harder than smaller stuff in my opinion. At least the were porcelain so should have been pretty flat and well graded.

£100 per slab just for the labour... fking hell...