Patio Costs - Am I being ripped off?

[ScottJB]

pmanson said:

We've just had our garden landscaped. It's not easy to drill down into all the details but hopefully this will give you some context.

The total was £15k

• Clad existing 11.4m rear wall in brick cladding and porcelain paving stone - £1,440
• Removal of existing side flowerbeds and create two more in engineering blocks and clad - £470
• Removal of existing shed base, excavation and disposal of circa 60 tonnes of sand, build of new retaining walls - £3,780
• Raise of height of existing front walls, modify existing steps, brick cladding and porcelain coping stone - £1,850
• New porcelain steps - £250
• Brick edging of lawn and new lawn - £1,300
• 50sqm of porcelain paving stone

Not including - new fence and electrical work

That's looking really nice.

Do you have any details of that lighting install. IP rated ribbon in a profile?

Also don't suppose you have/can take the measurements you used for those steps (tread & rise)? They look proportionally good to my eye.

[Harry Flashman]

Nothing to add except to say that is stunning, and I wish I had done something similar! Those lights!

[m3jappa]

And here we are, the garden above does look really nice! But then i would say 15k for that does appear really cheap, i cant actually see or tell how much actual paving there is though?

And then on the other hand you've got someone charging 6k labour for what sounds like a straightforward patio. £3300 materials without the slabs is also a very high figure and im sorry but he is taking the piss. That is unless it includes something like 5 muck away loads due to reduction of levels, then infilled and a retaining wall

[Burwood]

This as you can see is not particularly large. And I'm not sure of the minor detail but what you see here cost 6 figures. It won a 100-150k landscape award.

That's a lot of money for a 'patio'

[pmanson]

A few answers...

The risers on the steps mean that there 180mm from the top of the step to the top of the next.

I forgot to measure the depth of the step but circa 300mm

Lights are Aurora all the relevant IP rating. They were pre cut off site with a 1m tail on each one running back to a box under the lawn.

They are just glued onto the underside of the coping with waterproof mastic

There are four circuits which are controlled by a sonoff switch (rear wall, seating area, steps and front wall) which are then on a dusk to dawn style alexa routine.

Pricing wise, we were lucky that the existing retaining walls at the rear and front were in place, also it was a friend doing the work (a bit of a risk but we drew up a contract so that it was clear what was included)

They put bespoke edging on the coping stones (cut down paving slabs as we couldn't get hold of the coping stones

Edited by pmanson on Saturday 19th September 10:10

[XJ75]

Got a more detailed breakdown of work and materials involved:

Patio:
Scrub off grass & dispose
Excavate area to required depth to allow for slab/mortar & hardcore base
Dig footing around perimeter & fill with concrete
Supply & lay bricks (to match the house) to act as a retaining wall
Supply & paint on water proof paint above dpc
Supply Aco drains along back wall of house & install
Connect Aco drains to soakaway with 4inch underground pipe
Supply & lay hardcore base to patio area & compress (150mm thick)
Lay slabs (supplied by client) on sand & cement base
Supply & install recessed inspection chamber covers
Supply grout & install

Side path:
Bring slabs down from bottom of garden
Picked up materials to do the job
Overlay slabs on existing slabs using solid sand & cement
Supply & install inspection chamber covers
Decorative stone for french drain
Supply & install grout
Clear & dispose of all waste

Materials:
Inspection chamber covers
8 bulk bags of sharp sand
40 bags of cement
6 tubs of grout
12m aco channel
9m underground pipe
2 straight connectors
Decorative stone
Hire of wet cutter
Roughly 200 bricks
1 bulk bag of soft sand
5 bags of cement
1 x skip

[p1stonhead]

XJ75 said:

Got a more detailed breakdown of work and materials involved:

Patio:
Scrub off grass & dispose
Excavate area to required depth to allow for slab/mortar & hardcore base
Dig footing around perimeter & fill with concrete
Supply & lay bricks (to match the house) to act as a retaining wall
Supply & paint on water proof paint above dpc
Supply Aco drains along back wall of house & install
Connect Aco drains to soakaway with 4inch underground pipe
Supply & lay hardcore base to patio area & compress (150mm thick)
Lay slabs (supplied by client) on sand & cement base
Supply & install recessed inspection chamber covers
Supply grout & install

Side path:
Bring slabs down from bottom of garden
Picked up materials to do the job
Overlay slabs on existing slabs using solid sand & cement
Supply & install inspection chamber covers
Decorative stone for french drain
Supply & install grout
Clear & dispose of all waste

Materials:
Inspection chamber covers
8 bulk bags of sharp sand
40 bags of cement
6 tubs of grout
12m aco channel
9m underground pipe
2 straight connectors
Decorative stone
Hire of wet cutter
Roughly 200 bricks
1 bulk bag of soft sand
5 bags of cement
1 x skip

There is a lot more stuff on there than just laying a patio?

Quite hard now to tell whether or not you got shafted.

Photos?

[XJ75]

We had a full width rear extension so the patio was being laid where there was previously garden.

The side path was included in the 55sqm and was using the same slabs that I supplied.

I'll get some photos.

[XJ75]

I've questioned him about the retaining wall, we don't have a retaining wall so I'm not sure where that has come from.

[stuttgartmetal]

UTH said:

Yikes!!! I'm also about to move to Surrey and sorting out the current patio will be part of my to do list, and I would not want to be paying as much as you have! How does your size compare with mine below:

#


Acid Brick Cleaner and a hot jet wash, that'd look mint.

[UTH]

stuttgartmetal said:

UTH said:

Yikes!!! I'm also about to move to Surrey and sorting out the current patio will be part of my to do list, and I would not want to be paying as much as you have! How does your size compare with mine below:

#


Acid Brick Cleaner and a hot jet wash, that'd look mint.

Yeah I'm hoping so, could do without relaying the whole thing.

[XJ75]

Few bad pics here, it's about as simple as it gets, no edging, no curves, at either side the slabs just stop, no retaining walls etc.

He has confirmed that the retaining wall was for the hardcore base so is actually underneath the patio.

[XJ75]

The bricks you can see to the right of the patio are just put there loosely as an idea for a retaining wall, we didn't actually go ahead with it and now won't bother based on what we've paid so far.

[UTH]

At least it does look nice, if rather expensive. No idea if you've been ripped off, I wouldn't have a clue.

[p1stonhead]

XJ75 said:

Few bad pics here, it's about as simple as it gets, no edging, no curves, at either side the slabs just stop, no retaining walls etc.

He has confirmed that the retaining wall was for the hardcore base so is actually underneath the patio.

‘Retaining wall’ for the sub base is just

[LocoBlade]

If the "retaining wall" is buried underneath why did the bricks need to match the house?!

Also no mention of any hardcore on the materials list but 8m3 of sharp sand along with a load of cement so presumably its laid on that is it?

[XJ75]

Not sure - is it possible that they got hardcore from the extension works when knocking down walls etc?

[p1stonhead]

FWIW it looks nice at least! It’s definitely still not worth what he’s charging though.

The main thing that jumps out at me is that I have NEVER heard of pulling a footing and putting a few rows of bricks on it, just to hold back 150mm odd of sub base in a flat garden with a level lawn. That’s just ludicrous and I’d be amazed if he even did it. Did you see him do it?

You could probably have an honest chat with him that what he did with just doing whatever he wanted without consulting you on cost is just not on and you expect a handshake deal on it.

Maybe a couple grand off at least?

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 23 September 16:44

[LocoBlade]

XJ75 said:

Not sure - is it possible that they got hardcore from the extension works when knocking down walls etc?

Possibly, but if that's how they did it then 8 bags of sand seems excessive to me (although I'm not a builder and might be wrong). A quick online calculator suggests 8m3 of sand would cover 55m2 to around 15cm of depth on it's own, excluding another ton (40 bags) of cement, not sure it would need all that plus hardcore would it?

[LocoBlade]

p1stonhead said:

FWIW it looks nice at least! It’s definitely still not worth what he’s charging though.

The main thing that jumps out at me is that I have NEVER heard of pulling a footing and putting a few rows of bricks on it, just to hold back 1500mm odd of sub base in a flat garden with a level lawn. That’s just ludicrous and I’d be amazed if he even did it. Did you see him do it?

Yeh, doesn't look a bad job but seems extremely pricey, always need to be careful getting builders to do extra stuff at the end of a job because if they've under-estimated the main job it gives them an avenue to recoup their profit margin. Before you speak to him it might be worth cutting a square of lawn turf in one corner and then digging down the edge of the patio about 30cm to see if he's actually done a retaining wall and/or see how deep the footings actually are.