Grade 2 Listed Houses

[TheJimi]

nikaiyo2 said:

Fast Bug said:

Its not a house that we want or needs knocking about to be honest. The only thing that would be nice is to remove a wall between the kitchen and the breakfast room, but its not the end of the world if we couldn't.

It has a cart shed/barn/car port thats open ended. Would that be something that we could fit doors to maybe? Again, its not the end of the world if we couldn't do that

The big problem as far as I am concerned is that it is almost entirely down to the opinion of an individual. They can refuse permission to do things without seeming to have any reason for the refusal.

I had a G2 Flat and wanted to take out a divider that made the bed room tiny, it was obviously not part of the original building, but the conservation officer would not allow it.

How on earth can that position be justified if the dividing wall is demonstrably not original?

[CypSIdders]

TheJimi said:

How on earth can that position be justified if the dividing wall is demonstrably not original?

It can't be!
I had the pleasure of renovating an 18th century, grade 2 listed property, in a conservation area, in an AOONB, within a national park, deep joy.

At the back of the house, unseen by anyone but the owners, was a rotten, partially collapsed 1970's home made conservatory.
We told the conservation officer that we were going to remove it, permanently.
He said we couldn't, we removed it anyway, nothing ever came of it!
Draw your own conclusions.

[seiben]

85Carrera said:

To give another perspective, we live in a grade 2 listed house in a conservation area and have always been able to do what we want. That said, we’ve not tried to do anything outlandish.

Building and maintenance works aren’t cheap but I put that down to the age of the building rather than it being listed.

I'd agree with this (we're now on our second grade 2 listed house). We accepted that we'd have to keep/repair things like the wooden sash windows - which is fine, as they're lovely things - and that there might be a bit more red tape involved if we were to do anything outlandish, but it's not caused any headaches so far. The most adventurous thing we've done is replace the garage, which included moving it and increasing the footprint. I may change my mind when we eventually get around to things like kitchen extensions etc

Bear in mind what's on the listing information of the house, too - most only have visibility of what's on the outside. If - hypothetically, of course - a nasty 1960s concrete dividing wall were to perhaps cease to be, did it even exist in the first place?

[Lotobear]

seiben said:

I'd agree with this (we're now on our second grade 2 listed house). We accepted that we'd have to keep/repair things like the wooden sash windows - which is fine, as they're lovely things - and that there might be a bit more red tape involved if we were to do anything outlandish, but it's not caused any headaches so far. The most adventurous thing we've done is replace the garage, which included moving it and increasing the footprint. I may change my mind when we eventually get around to things like kitchen extensions etc

Bear in mind what's on the listing information of the house, too - most only have visibility of what's on the outside. If - hypothetically, of course - a nasty 1960s concrete dividing wall were to perhaps cease to be, did it even exist in the first place?

But it's worth pointing out for the unititiated that the wording of the listing is not the definitive statement of what is listed and that, contrary to what many still think, absolutely everything within the curtilage is subject to the same legal control and in effect 'listed' even though the CO may well attach lesser importance to certain features than he/she does to others. I've lost count of the number of times I'm still told well that "fireplace is listed, that door opening is listed" etc. (I write this as I compose a structural survey report for a listed building)

Edited by Lotobear on Thursday 29th October 11:12

[BigBen]

This is an interesting thread. I have been semi looking at this place

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/82149185#/

and was wondering what the scope is for internal changes. Even adding a door from the master bedroom to one of the bathrooms would make a big concession to modern living. Being able to move walls around downstairs even more of a difference.

Ben

[Mark V GTD]

seiben said:

Bear in mind what's on the listing information of the house, too - most only have visibility of what's on the outside. If - hypothetically, of course - a nasty 1960s concrete dividing wall were to perhaps cease to be, did it even exist in the first place?

The 'listing information' is just a general description of the property and not descriptive of its listing! The entre fabric of the property, be it ten year old door or 300 year old staircase, is listed. Alteration, addition or removal without listed building consent is a criminal offence.

[Nick_MSM]

Fast Bug said:

Its not a house that we want or needs knocking about to be honest. The only thing that would be nice is to remove a wall between the kitchen and the breakfast room, but its not the end of the world if we couldn't.

It has a cart shed/barn/car port thats open ended. Would that be something that we could fit doors to maybe? Again, its not the end of the world if we couldn't do that

I live in a Grade 2 house. We didn't have any problems getting permission to knock out a wall between kitchen/dining room. The wall wasn't original though, maybe a hundred years or so, but nobody even came out to check it. Overall our experiences with a near full restoration have been fine.

[nikaiyo2]

TheJimi said:

How on earth can that position be justified if the dividing wall is demonstrably not original?

I think I pissed her off I apologized for wasting her time when she arrived.

It was a plasterboard partition that was not even full height floor to ceiling, the building was a barracks converted to flats, so the MOD had occupied it for 150 years, it was so obviously something that they had thrown in at some point to make an office or store room or something. The dead give away was the Geo wired glass in the top... that was not produced until 100 years after the building was built.
All the walls that were original were brick and about 8" thick apart from the ones added during conversion or this one LOL.

[mikeiow]

CypSIdders said:

TheJimi said:

How on earth can that position be justified if the dividing wall is demonstrably not original?

It can't be!
I had the pleasure of renovating an 18th century, grade 2 listed property, in a conservation area, in an AOONB, within a national park, deep joy.

At the back of the house, unseen by anyone but the owners, was a rotten, partially collapsed 1970's home made conservatory.
We told the conservation officer that we were going to remove it, permanently.
He said we couldn't, we removed it anyway, nothing ever came of it!
Draw your own conclusions.

Ha!
My conclusion there would be that you perhaps should have removed it without asking......by asking, they *could* come back and check & get arsey!

Of course that is a dangerous suggestion on my part - you should *of course* not do work without referring to the CO.....but nonetheless.....I suspect that if you are sympathetically restoring its (or indeed, removing fugly eyesores that don't belong or add value), AND those bits are not easily visible....well....who would know, & if they knew, would they complain?!!
Shocking statement, I know.....

[ChocolateFrog]

Fast Bug said:

Just how much ball ache are they? Got a second viewing on one tomorrow, and I know that it needs a bay window replacing, and a few other windows need repair sooner rather than later.

What's the process for this? Would i need to get the local preservation person from the council approve the work before it's done? Or after?

Anything else I should know about listed buildings? I'm all ears!

I bought one once, wouldn't buy one under any circumstances now.

You're at the behest of individuals. Some are progressive, most are recalcitrant and would be better served living in Salt Lake City.

[Sford]

We're lucky enough that our 16th century isn't listed however the neighbours old pub is and they have all sorts of issues trying to get things approved. Unless it is your absolute dream house, I'm not sure I would go down the route as a result of all the hassle. Imagine you will need deep pockets and long arms too.

[anonymous-user]

I lived in a Grade II listed barn conversion for three years up until 2018 and enjoyed it immensely.

Thankfully it had already been brought up to latest build regs when I purchased it so there was no need to make any changes. If that's the situation you are in, then go ahead and enjoy the property.

[alscar]

We bought a G2 listed farmhouse ( 400 years old ) 16 years ago having previously lived in 3 different brand new houses so the change was quite a shock as you can imagine.
Whilst we were complete novices as such we have absolutely no regrets.
Over the years we have probably spent around 40% again on the original purchase price including such delightful jobs as having most of the front sole plate replaced ( ever seen a timber beamed housed jacked up and left exposed - quite scary ) ,various external beams being replaced or new timber spliced in ,a new roof , one entire gable wall being rebuilt including token horse hair from one of my wife's horses ), literally lost count of how much additional plumbing and electrical work carried out ,2 new bathrooms etc etc.
And this was from a house that had been supposedly renovated.
Full survey ,a contingency fund ,the ability to get on with the Listed Buildings Officer ( no mean feat ) and more importantly decent Builders and Other trades that also have a decent relationship with the LBO are all required in my opinion.
But when we move I don't think we would do it again so will look for a non listed house !

[gred]

Going back to your original post OP, significant window repairs will probably require permission. Window replacement certainly will. And like for like glazing will most likely be insisted on, so single glazed and possibly restoration glass will be required.

Ask me how I know....

[Jeremy-75qq8]

I had one in London.

We had no issues with the listed consents etc but everything costs £££

A window must not just look the same but be built in the same way. This is expensive and slow as not many people can do it I would not have one again.

[Fast Bug]

Had a second viewing today, loads of issues involving access, septic tanks and more windows than I first thought needing work or replacing. No matter how lovely it is, I can't be dealing with that.

Shame really, the listed status didn't put me off and I'm a whole lot wiser than I was a few days ago!