How to improve this house, in Penn, Bucks?
Discussion
motco said:
These days we have The Whip Inn, Black Lion, The Boot, or The Pink and Lily - you'll guess where we moved to!
I know where you are. There used to be a smashing country pub I used to go to, nestled in a bend in the road, used to park in grassy land on the other side. It used to sell good beer and had great outside BBQ in the days before pubs really did that sort of thing but last time I went looking it had closed down, that was 15-20 years ago. May have been in Speen but I can't even see evidence of it now on Google maps. Remember it? RichB said:
motco said:
These days we have The Whip Inn, Black Lion, The Boot, or The Pink and Lily - you'll guess where we moved to!
I know where you are. There used to be a smashing country pub I used to go to, nestled in a bend in the road, used to park in grassy land on the other side. It used to sell good beer and had great outside BBQ in the days before pubs really did that sort of thing but last time I went looking it had closed down, that was 15-20 years ago. May have been in Speen but I can't even see evidence of it now on Google maps. Remember it? 
Thanks, that's great advice. 
We purchased a similar vintage bungalow that had various extensions over the years and a loft conversion that didn’t work. Found a decent architect and he has transformed what was ok into something we love and will be our forever home.
mattman said:
wax lyrical said:
UPDATE - Due to exchange on this property in a week or so. Turns out it's actually originally a 50's bungalow that has steadily been improved and added to over the last 30 years. Big structural changes, but all done really well it seems.
Anyway, come warmer weather - time to pain the timber windows black and add white render to the brick. Will then decide what shade the cladding will be.
Congrats OP - after you move in and before you do anything, I would suggest getting a couple of architects around and get their thoughts on what you could do.Anyway, come warmer weather - time to pain the timber windows black and add white render to the brick. Will then decide what shade the cladding will be.
We purchased a similar vintage bungalow that had various extensions over the years and a loft conversion that didn’t work. Found a decent architect and he has transformed what was ok into something we love and will be our forever home.
Lovely looking house - really like that style.
It's difficult to see properly because the pics aren't great, but that cladding looks like weathered larch (or similar). It's meant to look that silvery grey colour - I think it looks great. I've just spent a small fortune on pre-weathered Siberian larch for our build - just so I didn't need to wait for it to go that colour
Would think very carefully about painting or stripping that. You'll spend your life maintaining it, whereas you can just leave it as it is to weather naturally. Doesn't look great with that brick. We've got a similar situation and we're covering all the brick in smooth white render. There is a bit of upkeep in that obviously, but it looks great with the weathered larch.
It's difficult to see properly because the pics aren't great, but that cladding looks like weathered larch (or similar). It's meant to look that silvery grey colour - I think it looks great. I've just spent a small fortune on pre-weathered Siberian larch for our build - just so I didn't need to wait for it to go that colour
Would think very carefully about painting or stripping that. You'll spend your life maintaining it, whereas you can just leave it as it is to weather naturally. Doesn't look great with that brick. We've got a similar situation and we're covering all the brick in smooth white render. There is a bit of upkeep in that obviously, but it looks great with the weathered larch.
Thanks - I agree actually, I like the 'greyish' weathered timber and will try and convince the wife it doesn't need staining back to a medium oak colour.
Priority jobs - paint all the timber windows black/dark charcoal, change the garage door to (perhaps) match front door and put white render all over the brick. That should all suit the greyish cladding pretty well.
Priority jobs - paint all the timber windows black/dark charcoal, change the garage door to (perhaps) match front door and put white render all over the brick.
That should all suit the greyish cladding pretty well. Junior Bianno said:
Lovely looking house - really like that style.
It's difficult to see properly because the pics aren't great, but that cladding looks like weathered larch (or similar). It's meant to look that silvery grey colour - I think it looks great. I've just spent a small fortune on pre-weathered Siberian larch for our build - just so I didn't need to wait for it to go that colour
Would think very carefully about painting or stripping that. You'll spend your life maintaining it, whereas you can just leave it as it is to weather naturally. Doesn't look great with that brick. We've got a similar situation and we're covering all the brick in smooth white render. There is a bit of upkeep in that obviously, but it looks great with the weathered larch.
It's difficult to see properly because the pics aren't great, but that cladding looks like weathered larch (or similar). It's meant to look that silvery grey colour - I think it looks great. I've just spent a small fortune on pre-weathered Siberian larch for our build - just so I didn't need to wait for it to go that colour
Would think very carefully about painting or stripping that. You'll spend your life maintaining it, whereas you can just leave it as it is to weather naturally. Doesn't look great with that brick. We've got a similar situation and we're covering all the brick in smooth white render. There is a bit of upkeep in that obviously, but it looks great with the weathered larch.
I'm slightly confused, but I think you're recommending painting the gutters and downpipes in black? That would be done to match the black windows.
RedAndy said:
waste of money if they work ok, but you asked about aesthetics not practicality: gutters n downpipes in black? next door looks much nicer like that.
wax lyrical said:
How do you know though that it’s been cheaply extended/ modified?
The timber cladding is likely to cover a lightweight, softwood timber substructure for the first floor extension. This is not in itself a bad thing - many houses are constructed this way - but it has a finite life span and limits your options for adapting layout and structure.ClaphamGT3 said:
Originally a small 2 bed bungalow from the 1970s that has been massively - and very cheaply - extended. Pulling it down and starting again is the only way you’ll prevent that being a compromised bungalow extension - and it would still be on a small plot.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
The 'quality' of the timber cladding is also another indicator of a cheap/poorly executed conversion; look at the detailing where the cladding meets the storm porch and, again, where the cladding interfaces with the top left-hand corner of the garage door. Also look at the bargeboard detail on the gable end nearest the road.
Leaving aside the compromised layout, especially down stairs, you have cheap, off-the-shelf joinery throughout, the kitchen and sanitary-ware are all low spec and there was at least one room with a pitched internal roof where the spotlights were basic flush fits that will be pointing across the space at an angle rather than gimballing to direct their light directly downwards.
The whole thing smacks of a probate sale bungalow that was bought and cheaply extended by a 2-bob 'developer' on the old 'more is more' trope. Everything you ever try to do will uncover things that were done cheaply and badly and, by the time you've got it 'right' you'll have spent far more than if you'd bought a better house in the first place.
Sorry - not what you want to hear having put an offer in but my suggestion based on what I can see from the particulars would be, if you haven't already exchanged, pull out and spend your money on something better.
Thanks for your comments - I appreciate the time. We're due to exchange this week. 
A lot of food for thought... I haven't actually had a full survey done as it all looked pretty good, inside and out (but I'm no expert).
The 'quality' of the timber cladding is also another indicator of a cheap/poorly executed conversion; look at the detailing where the cladding meets the storm porch and, again, where the cladding interfaces with the top left-hand corner of the garage door. Also look at the bargeboard detail on the gable end nearest the road.
Leaving aside the compromised layout, especially down stairs, you have cheap, off-the-shelf joinery throughout, the kitchen and sanitary-ware are all low spec and there was at least one room with a pitched internal roof where the spotlights were basic flush fits that will be pointing across the space at an angle rather than gimballing to direct their light directly downwards.
The whole thing smacks of a probate sale bungalow that was bought and cheaply extended by a 2-bob 'developer' on the old 'more is more' trope. Everything you ever try to do will uncover things that were done cheaply and badly and, by the time you've got it 'right' you'll have spent far more than if you'd bought a better house in the first place.
Sorry - not what you want to hear having put an offer in but my suggestion based on what I can see from the particulars would be, if you haven't already exchanged, pull out and spend your money on something better.
A lot of food for thought... I haven't actually had a full survey done as it all looked pretty good, inside and out (but I'm no expert).
ClaphamGT3 said:
wax lyrical said:
How do you know though that it’s been cheaply extended/ modified?
The timber cladding is likely to cover a lightweight, softwood timber substructure for the first floor extension. This is not in itself a bad thing - many houses are constructed this way - but it has a finite life span and limits your options for adapting layout and structure.ClaphamGT3 said:
Originally a small 2 bed bungalow from the 1970s that has been massively - and very cheaply - extended. Pulling it down and starting again is the only way you’ll prevent that being a compromised bungalow extension - and it would still be on a small plot.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
The 'quality' of the timber cladding is also another indicator of a cheap/poorly executed conversion; look at the detailing where the cladding meets the storm porch and, again, where the cladding interfaces with the top left-hand corner of the garage door. Also look at the bargeboard detail on the gable end nearest the road.
Leaving aside the compromised layout, especially down stairs, you have cheap, off-the-shelf joinery throughout, the kitchen and sanitary-ware are all low spec and there was at least one room with a pitched internal roof where the spotlights were basic flush fits that will be pointing across the space at an angle rather than gimballing to direct their light directly downwards.
The whole thing smacks of a probate sale bungalow that was bought and cheaply extended by a 2-bob 'developer' on the old 'more is more' trope. Everything you ever try to do will uncover things that were done cheaply and badly and, by the time you've got it 'right' you'll have spent far more than if you'd bought a better house in the first place.
Sorry - not what you want to hear having put an offer in but my suggestion based on what I can see from the particulars would be, if you haven't already exchanged, pull out and spend your money on something better.
motco said:
RichB said:
motco said:
These days we have The Whip Inn, Black Lion, The Boot, or The Pink and Lily - you'll guess where we moved to!
I know where you are. There used to be a smashing country pub I used to go to, nestled in a bend in the road, used to park in grassy land on the other side. It used to sell good beer and had great outside BBQ in the days before pubs really did that sort of thing but last time I went looking it had closed down, that was 15-20 years ago. May have been in Speen but I can't even see evidence of it now on Google maps. Remember it? and
Youtube
He never went there personally, but a friend took his mother there for a birthday treat and he said that the food was good but pricey.
I've thought about it and these are all valid points - but more points of (relatively) minor detail and ultimate finish, as opposed to anything fundamental?
If this house had been finished to such an exacting standard, with high quality fittings throughout, I probably wouldn't be able to afford it.
70% of the value is in the land I suppose and Penn is a sought-after location.
If this house had been finished to such an exacting standard, with high quality fittings throughout, I probably wouldn't be able to afford it.
70% of the value is in the land I suppose and Penn is a sought-after location.
wax lyrical said:
Thanks for your comments - I appreciate the time. We're due to exchange this week.
A lot of food for thought... I haven't actually had a full survey done as it all looked pretty good, inside and out (but I'm no expert).
The 'quality' of the timber cladding is also another indicator of a cheap/poorly executed conversion; look at the detailing where the cladding meets the storm porch and, again, where the cladding interfaces with the top left-hand corner of the garage door. Also look at the bargeboard detail on the gable end nearest the road.
Leaving aside the compromised layout, especially down stairs, you have cheap, off-the-shelf joinery throughout, the kitchen and sanitary-ware are all low spec and there was at least one room with a pitched internal roof where the spotlights were basic flush fits that will be pointing across the space at an angle rather than gimballing to direct their light directly downwards.
The whole thing smacks of a probate sale bungalow that was bought and cheaply extended by a 2-bob 'developer' on the old 'more is more' trope. Everything you ever try to do will uncover things that were done cheaply and badly and, by the time you've got it 'right' you'll have spent far more than if you'd bought a better house in the first place.
Sorry - not what you want to hear having put an offer in but my suggestion based on what I can see from the particulars would be, if you haven't already exchanged, pull out and spend your money on something better.
A lot of food for thought... I haven't actually had a full survey done as it all looked pretty good, inside and out (but I'm no expert).
ClaphamGT3 said:
wax lyrical said:
How do you know though that it’s been cheaply extended/ modified?
The timber cladding is likely to cover a lightweight, softwood timber substructure for the first floor extension. This is not in itself a bad thing - many houses are constructed this way - but it has a finite life span and limits your options for adapting layout and structure.ClaphamGT3 said:
Originally a small 2 bed bungalow from the 1970s that has been massively - and very cheaply - extended. Pulling it down and starting again is the only way you’ll prevent that being a compromised bungalow extension - and it would still be on a small plot.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
The 'quality' of the timber cladding is also another indicator of a cheap/poorly executed conversion; look at the detailing where the cladding meets the storm porch and, again, where the cladding interfaces with the top left-hand corner of the garage door. Also look at the bargeboard detail on the gable end nearest the road.
Leaving aside the compromised layout, especially down stairs, you have cheap, off-the-shelf joinery throughout, the kitchen and sanitary-ware are all low spec and there was at least one room with a pitched internal roof where the spotlights were basic flush fits that will be pointing across the space at an angle rather than gimballing to direct their light directly downwards.
The whole thing smacks of a probate sale bungalow that was bought and cheaply extended by a 2-bob 'developer' on the old 'more is more' trope. Everything you ever try to do will uncover things that were done cheaply and badly and, by the time you've got it 'right' you'll have spent far more than if you'd bought a better house in the first place.
Sorry - not what you want to hear having put an offer in but my suggestion based on what I can see from the particulars would be, if you haven't already exchanged, pull out and spend your money on something better.
wax lyrical said:
I've thought about it and these are all valid points - but more points of (relatively) minor detail and ultimate finish, as opposed to anything fundamental?
If this house had been finished to such an exacting standard, with high quality fittings throughout, I probably wouldn't be able to afford it.
70% of the value is in the land I suppose and Penn is a sought-after location.
Neither I nor anyone could possibly tell from 12 random photos what the structural condition of the property is but 30 years in the industry have taught me that when the obvious things are so substandard, the things that need more thorough investigation won't be any better.If this house had been finished to such an exacting standard, with high quality fittings throughout, I probably wouldn't be able to afford it.
70% of the value is in the land I suppose and Penn is a sought-after location.
wax lyrical said:
Thanks for your comments - I appreciate the time. We're due to exchange this week.
A lot of food for thought... I haven't actually had a full survey done as it all looked pretty good, inside and out (but I'm no expert).
The 'quality' of the timber cladding is also another indicator of a cheap/poorly executed conversion; look at the detailing where the cladding meets the storm porch and, again, where the cladding interfaces with the top left-hand corner of the garage door. Also look at the bargeboard detail on the gable end nearest the road.
Leaving aside the compromised layout, especially down stairs, you have cheap, off-the-shelf joinery throughout, the kitchen and sanitary-ware are all low spec and there was at least one room with a pitched internal roof where the spotlights were basic flush fits that will be pointing across the space at an angle rather than gimballing to direct their light directly downwards.
The whole thing smacks of a probate sale bungalow that was bought and cheaply extended by a 2-bob 'developer' on the old 'more is more' trope. Everything you ever try to do will uncover things that were done cheaply and badly and, by the time you've got it 'right' you'll have spent far more than if you'd bought a better house in the first place.
Sorry - not what you want to hear having put an offer in but my suggestion based on what I can see from the particulars would be, if you haven't already exchanged, pull out and spend your money on something better.
A lot of food for thought... I haven't actually had a full survey done as it all looked pretty good, inside and out (but I'm no expert).
ClaphamGT3 said:
wax lyrical said:
How do you know though that it’s been cheaply extended/ modified?
The timber cladding is likely to cover a lightweight, softwood timber substructure for the first floor extension. This is not in itself a bad thing - many houses are constructed this way - but it has a finite life span and limits your options for adapting layout and structure.ClaphamGT3 said:
Originally a small 2 bed bungalow from the 1970s that has been massively - and very cheaply - extended. Pulling it down and starting again is the only way you’ll prevent that being a compromised bungalow extension - and it would still be on a small plot.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
I’d be spending my money on something that was originally intended to be a four bedroom house.
The 'quality' of the timber cladding is also another indicator of a cheap/poorly executed conversion; look at the detailing where the cladding meets the storm porch and, again, where the cladding interfaces with the top left-hand corner of the garage door. Also look at the bargeboard detail on the gable end nearest the road.
Leaving aside the compromised layout, especially down stairs, you have cheap, off-the-shelf joinery throughout, the kitchen and sanitary-ware are all low spec and there was at least one room with a pitched internal roof where the spotlights were basic flush fits that will be pointing across the space at an angle rather than gimballing to direct their light directly downwards.
The whole thing smacks of a probate sale bungalow that was bought and cheaply extended by a 2-bob 'developer' on the old 'more is more' trope. Everything you ever try to do will uncover things that were done cheaply and badly and, by the time you've got it 'right' you'll have spent far more than if you'd bought a better house in the first place.
Sorry - not what you want to hear having put an offer in but my suggestion based on what I can see from the particulars would be, if you haven't already exchanged, pull out and spend your money on something better.
You talk about the real value being in the land. I wouldn't disagree. If I found myself wanting to buy in this location and this being the available property, I would be pulling it down and re-building.
Probably the best advice I can give at this stage is to defer exchange until you have had a full survey carried out. Make your decision from there.
Thank you - good advice and that's what I'll do. I'll be taking out quite a big mortgage, so better safe than sorry.
Incidentally, looking at the 1993 plans for the main renovation, under the wood cladding there appears to be asbestos cement (ASBESTOS FIBRE CEMENT SLATES). I assume I'll therefore need an asbestos survey too?
Edit - I think it's just the roof tiles that are asbestos cement and not under the cladding (doesn't make sense to be under cladding). Me just having a blonde moment and misinterpreting the drawings.
Incidentally, looking at the 1993 plans for the main renovation, under the wood cladding there appears to be asbestos cement (ASBESTOS FIBRE CEMENT SLATES). I assume I'll therefore need an asbestos survey too?
Edit - I think it's just the roof tiles that are asbestos cement and not under the cladding (doesn't make sense to be under cladding). Me just having a blonde moment and misinterpreting the drawings.
ClaphamGT3 said:
Neither I nor anyone could possibly tell from 12 random photos what the structural condition of the property is but 30 years in the industry have taught me that when the obvious things are so substandard, the things that need more thorough investigation won't be any better.
You talk about the real value being in the land. I wouldn't disagree. If I found myself wanting to buy in this location and this being the available property, I would be pulling it down and re-building.
Probably the best advice I can give at this stage is to defer exchange until you have had a full survey carried out. Make your decision from there.
You talk about the real value being in the land. I wouldn't disagree. If I found myself wanting to buy in this location and this being the available property, I would be pulling it down and re-building.
Probably the best advice I can give at this stage is to defer exchange until you have had a full survey carried out. Make your decision from there.
Edited by wax lyrical on Monday 18th January 16:12
Edited by wax lyrical on Monday 18th January 16:18
This probably doesn't help, but when we moved in to our house it all looked fine and the survey results were OK as well
When we started peeling the plasterboard and floorboards off to do the renovations, that's when we uncovered a few "interesting" construction methods that would never get through building control today. None of them were major enough to stop us in our tracks and everything can be fixed.
At the end of the day, doesn't really matter how old the house is, unless its brand new it will have undergone some level of maintenance and improvement by previous owners - good and bad - as long as you love the house and can live it as you improve to your own standards, that's all that matters
When we started peeling the plasterboard and floorboards off to do the renovations, that's when we uncovered a few "interesting" construction methods that would never get through building control today. None of them were major enough to stop us in our tracks and everything can be fixed.
At the end of the day, doesn't really matter how old the house is, unless its brand new it will have undergone some level of maintenance and improvement by previous owners - good and bad - as long as you love the house and can live it as you improve to your own standards, that's all that matters
Thanks. You're right - sometimes one just has to take a punt. However I think I need a full survey done.
mattman said:
This probably doesn't help, but when we moved in to our house it all looked fine and the survey results were OK as well
When we started peeling the plasterboard and floorboards off to do the renovations, that's when we uncovered a few "interesting" construction methods that would never get through building control today. None of them were major enough to stop us in our tracks and everything can be fixed.
At the end of the day, doesn't really matter how old the house is, unless its brand new it will have undergone some level of maintenance and improvement by previous owners - good and bad - as long as you love the house and can live it as you improve to your own standards, that's all that matters
When we started peeling the plasterboard and floorboards off to do the renovations, that's when we uncovered a few "interesting" construction methods that would never get through building control today. None of them were major enough to stop us in our tracks and everything can be fixed.
At the end of the day, doesn't really matter how old the house is, unless its brand new it will have undergone some level of maintenance and improvement by previous owners - good and bad - as long as you love the house and can live it as you improve to your own standards, that's all that matters
Looking at the floor plan, does anyone have a rough idea how much it would cost to combine (and make good/re-plaster) Bed 4, 'study' and downstairs shower room into a single space, plus wood flooring in the hall? Assuming no structural walls. Also converting one of the hall windows into a 'picture window'.
Many thanks
Many thanks
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