BT Broadband monopoly on new build development
Discussion
Hello,
I'm just at the end of first 18 month contract with BT Broadband, in a 2 year old new build development.
BT put in the infrastructure, and so you automatically go into a contract with BT, obviously the developer doesn't mention this prior to your taking the keys.
It was more expensive than any of the competition, and the argument is they're clawing back their costs for infrastructure.
But now I'm at the end of the first contract, I can only upgrade via their website, and to get 100mb fibre, is £65 and can get same service from others at c£25-30.
However, when I attempted to swap, they all said that my address was not available because BT blocked it.
It's pretty annoying really, it means the developer has done a deal where they get BT to put some of the investment into the infrastructure in return for locking customers into higher tariffs for several years, with no option to move. But never made any mention of that fact that as a result, I'd need to pay double the market price for several years with no options to move.
Anyone know if there Is there any option to circumvent this?
Cheers,
HBT
I'm just at the end of first 18 month contract with BT Broadband, in a 2 year old new build development.
BT put in the infrastructure, and so you automatically go into a contract with BT, obviously the developer doesn't mention this prior to your taking the keys.
It was more expensive than any of the competition, and the argument is they're clawing back their costs for infrastructure.
But now I'm at the end of the first contract, I can only upgrade via their website, and to get 100mb fibre, is £65 and can get same service from others at c£25-30.
However, when I attempted to swap, they all said that my address was not available because BT blocked it.
It's pretty annoying really, it means the developer has done a deal where they get BT to put some of the investment into the infrastructure in return for locking customers into higher tariffs for several years, with no option to move. But never made any mention of that fact that as a result, I'd need to pay double the market price for several years with no options to move.
Anyone know if there Is there any option to circumvent this?
Cheers,
HBT
That doesn't sound very plausible, unless my understanding is incorrect.
Openreach own the network, and are entirely separate from BT.
Openreach charge internet providers (Plusnet, Sky, EE, BT, whoever) for use of the network.
And so Openreach don't care who actually provides you with internet, they get paid by whoever.
There is no logical link now, between Openreach who run the network, and your domestic internet provider.
Openreach own the network, and are entirely separate from BT.
Openreach charge internet providers (Plusnet, Sky, EE, BT, whoever) for use of the network.
And so Openreach don't care who actually provides you with internet, they get paid by whoever.
There is no logical link now, between Openreach who run the network, and your domestic internet provider.
guindilias said:
They aren't entirely separate at all. BT own the network, and also own Openreach. They are just separate entities to deal with.
Regardless - Openreach put the infrastructure in and any charges will go to any ISP going over the top of it.The only things that seem to given them an advantage is like when they put Fibre down on our cul de sac, you could only order it from BT for a few weeks, like the other suppliers couldn't get their offer in place, so everyone piled on to BT as most of where exchange line only so had been neglected when they rolled out the FTTC but quite glad now we're all FTTP
I've seen this discussed on BT's forums but the threads generally result in a massive argument about whether BT and OpenReach are separate companies.
Basically they seem to say it can't be a monoply it's just that other providers choose not to offer a service.
ie: https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Doe...
You could have a look here https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADS... and see if it offers anything illuminating.
Basically they seem to say it can't be a monoply it's just that other providers choose not to offer a service.
ie: https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Doe...
You could have a look here https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADS... and see if it offers anything illuminating.
Is 4g an option?
I get circa 100mb download speeds and unlimited data for £25 per month from Three.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I get circa 100mb download speeds and unlimited data for £25 per month from Three.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
guindilias said:
They aren't entirely separate at all. BT own the network, and also own Openreach. They are just separate entities to deal with.
Yes I know. But from a commercial point of view Openreach have to (by law) offer the same service to all their customers, of which BT is just one.
And so the situation in the OP's post seems unlikely to me because Openreach cannot lay the infrastructure and then prevent other customers from using it aside from their parent company. That is anti-competitive and exactly why Openreach were forced to become more distant from BT.
Ask over on the ADSLGuide forums, they have a lot of knowledge about these issues:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/
There is no BT monopoly.
Whilst BT own Openreach which provides the infrastructure, the arm of BT which sells customer broadband services interfaces with Openreach in the same way as any other Communications Provider - be that Sky, TalkTalk, Zen, right down to very small players.
The problem you have with new builds is that they are now fibre only - they don't get a copper connection at all - so only Fibre to the Premises solutions are available.
The wider CP market, particularly the bigger players, are only just starting to offer a consumer FTTP product. BT got their act together bringing these products to market far quicker than anyone else and this has left some FTTP customers with no viable alternative.
The problem is consumer broadband is a race to the bottom with tiny margins that are only sustainable at large volume where you get a balance of users - some heavy, some light and the heavy users are effectively subsidised by the light users, and this is exacerbated at speeds increase because you're moving more data and so you either accept contention increases or your backhaul costs increase. Quite simply there isn't a financial business case for CP's to get involved. The other issue the big players have is updating their systems to check availability for these products automatically - this is why you often see service not available because they system can't check the Openreach system automatically.
With regards to the OP's situation, you should have a few options now. Anyone reselling BT Wholesale broadband services should be able to offer you a service now, although whether the pricing will be attractive I don't know - BT Wholesale is the arm of BT that sells services to other businesses to resell on to their customers, and TalkTalk Business released their pricing a few weeks ago but I don't know if the consumer side of TT have it available yet. Of the major LLU players - LLU is where the provider has their own equipment in the BT exchange - Zen are offering FTTP now but they aren't everywhere and Sky now offer FTTP and are present in most exchanges. You might still need to talk to someone though rather than relying on automated checkers. There is a final potential issue that customer connections (FTTC or FTTP) within an exchange terminate on what Openreach refer to as an L2S and to offer services to the customer the CP needs to pay for a connection between each L2S and their equipment. FTTP is terminated on different L2S to FTTC, and so CP's need to buy new cablelinks to offer services. Each of these links costs £521 and so in areas with small FTTP deployments it's sometimes not worth doing if you're only going to get a handful of customers.
If I was in your shoes I'd ring Zen and speak to them in the first instance. If you are willing to give me your address I might be able to give you some other options.
Whilst BT own Openreach which provides the infrastructure, the arm of BT which sells customer broadband services interfaces with Openreach in the same way as any other Communications Provider - be that Sky, TalkTalk, Zen, right down to very small players.
The problem you have with new builds is that they are now fibre only - they don't get a copper connection at all - so only Fibre to the Premises solutions are available.
The wider CP market, particularly the bigger players, are only just starting to offer a consumer FTTP product. BT got their act together bringing these products to market far quicker than anyone else and this has left some FTTP customers with no viable alternative.
The problem is consumer broadband is a race to the bottom with tiny margins that are only sustainable at large volume where you get a balance of users - some heavy, some light and the heavy users are effectively subsidised by the light users, and this is exacerbated at speeds increase because you're moving more data and so you either accept contention increases or your backhaul costs increase. Quite simply there isn't a financial business case for CP's to get involved. The other issue the big players have is updating their systems to check availability for these products automatically - this is why you often see service not available because they system can't check the Openreach system automatically.
With regards to the OP's situation, you should have a few options now. Anyone reselling BT Wholesale broadband services should be able to offer you a service now, although whether the pricing will be attractive I don't know - BT Wholesale is the arm of BT that sells services to other businesses to resell on to their customers, and TalkTalk Business released their pricing a few weeks ago but I don't know if the consumer side of TT have it available yet. Of the major LLU players - LLU is where the provider has their own equipment in the BT exchange - Zen are offering FTTP now but they aren't everywhere and Sky now offer FTTP and are present in most exchanges. You might still need to talk to someone though rather than relying on automated checkers. There is a final potential issue that customer connections (FTTC or FTTP) within an exchange terminate on what Openreach refer to as an L2S and to offer services to the customer the CP needs to pay for a connection between each L2S and their equipment. FTTP is terminated on different L2S to FTTC, and so CP's need to buy new cablelinks to offer services. Each of these links costs £521 and so in areas with small FTTP deployments it's sometimes not worth doing if you're only going to get a handful of customers.
If I was in your shoes I'd ring Zen and speak to them in the first instance. If you are willing to give me your address I might be able to give you some other options.
Edited by quinny100 on Monday 30th November 11:44
The development has 600 homes, of which about 450 are built. Was a Greenfield site, built by Barratts.
I've tried Vodafone Fibre and Plusnet fibre, and both could not provide service to this address.
I'm waiting for a call back from Virgin, but not had great experience with them in the past, they do seem to offer here.
Vodafone Fibre 2 (64mb) is £18.50 for me as customer. BT are trying to charge me £64 for the same service.
I've tried Vodafone Fibre and Plusnet fibre, and both could not provide service to this address.
I'm waiting for a call back from Virgin, but not had great experience with them in the past, they do seem to offer here.
Vodafone Fibre 2 (64mb) is £18.50 for me as customer. BT are trying to charge me £64 for the same service.
Edited by handbraketurn on Monday 30th November 17:40
I’m on a similar build.
Initial 18mth contract was up in January, swapped to a 4g service that was awful.
Went back to BT but they only offered a 2yr contract.
Roll forward 6mths and openreach have finally released the cabinets to other providers beyond the half dozen or so already available (BT and Zen being the main domestic providers).
The release of the cabinets was supposed to happen in august 2019 but was delayed by 12mths for various excuses and reasons.
However that being said the fastest speeds any of the new providers (sky / plusnet / Vodafone / etc...) offer top off at 100mb whereas BT and the original provider group can offer upto 1gb dl speeds.
Initial 18mth contract was up in January, swapped to a 4g service that was awful.
Went back to BT but they only offered a 2yr contract.
Roll forward 6mths and openreach have finally released the cabinets to other providers beyond the half dozen or so already available (BT and Zen being the main domestic providers).
The release of the cabinets was supposed to happen in august 2019 but was delayed by 12mths for various excuses and reasons.
However that being said the fastest speeds any of the new providers (sky / plusnet / Vodafone / etc...) offer top off at 100mb whereas BT and the original provider group can offer upto 1gb dl speeds.
What most providers currently advertise as fibre is actually and FTTC service - Fibre to the Cabinet, then copper from the cabinet to the premises.
You cannot and will never be able to access these services because you do not and will never have a copper service to your house.
Forget paying £18 a month, it’s not going to happen. You should be able to find a 300Mbps service for around £50 a month.
You need to be looking for ultrafast services delivered using FTTP, like https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-br... or https://www.broadbandchoices.co.uk/broadband/ultra...
You cannot and will never be able to access these services because you do not and will never have a copper service to your house.
Forget paying £18 a month, it’s not going to happen. You should be able to find a 300Mbps service for around £50 a month.
You need to be looking for ultrafast services delivered using FTTP, like https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-br... or https://www.broadbandchoices.co.uk/broadband/ultra...
alorotom said:
I’m on a similar build.
Initial 18mth contract was up in January, swapped to a 4g service that was awful.
Went back to BT but they only offered a 2yr contract.
Roll forward 6mths and openreach have finally released the cabinets to other providers beyond the half dozen or so already available (BT and Zen being the main domestic providers).
The release of the cabinets was supposed to happen in august 2019 but was delayed by 12mths for various excuses and reasons.
However that being said the fastest speeds any of the new providers (sky / plusnet / Vodafone / etc...) offer top off at 100mb whereas BT and the original provider group can offer upto 1gb dl speeds.
There are no cabinets involved in FTTP deployments. I explained the reasons for the lack of availability in my post above. This BT monopoly and releasing cabinets nonsense is unhelpful.Initial 18mth contract was up in January, swapped to a 4g service that was awful.
Went back to BT but they only offered a 2yr contract.
Roll forward 6mths and openreach have finally released the cabinets to other providers beyond the half dozen or so already available (BT and Zen being the main domestic providers).
The release of the cabinets was supposed to happen in august 2019 but was delayed by 12mths for various excuses and reasons.
However that being said the fastest speeds any of the new providers (sky / plusnet / Vodafone / etc...) offer top off at 100mb whereas BT and the original provider group can offer upto 1gb dl speeds.
handbraketurn said:
The development has 600 homes, of which about 450 are built. Was a Greenfield site, built by Barratts.
I've tried Vodafone Fibre and Plusnet fibre, and both could not provide service to this address.
I'm waiting for a call back from Virgin, but not had great experience with them in the past, they do seem to offer here.
Vodafone Fibre 2 (64mb) is £18.50 for me as customer. BT are trying to charge me £64 for the same service.
I had the same lack of choice with our place until the summer when BT started harassing me to sign a new contract with them, offering me 100mbps instead of the 75mbps for the same money (around £55-£60). I've tried Vodafone Fibre and Plusnet fibre, and both could not provide service to this address.
I'm waiting for a call back from Virgin, but not had great experience with them in the past, they do seem to offer here.
Vodafone Fibre 2 (64mb) is £18.50 for me as customer. BT are trying to charge me £64 for the same service.
Edited by handbraketurn on Monday 30th November 17:40
I figured something must be up so I checked around and all of a sudden there was a new player available, TalkTalk who were offering up to 500mbps for £35.
Tried arguing with BT as they’d insisted I had to take a phone line from them for the period I was with them even though it’s not required for FTTP. I argued they missold it to be and they just played the ‘it’s a bundled package’ card.
They pretended they didn’t have a product or marketing team when I asked for them to review my complaint so I told the customer service agent where she could send my final bill and I haven’t dealt with them since.
In my experience, BT have too much leverage over these new developments and I’m glad I’m out of their clutches now
Have you checked what deals you can get as a new customer? They’ve always matched that when I’ve spoken to them.
My new build is fibre to the house, and for the past 3.5 years I’ve been locked into BT.
They’ve always been reasonable in getting prices down when challenged. I’m currently paying £50 for 150mb, plus BT sports, HD upgrade and my mobile phone.
My new build is fibre to the house, and for the past 3.5 years I’ve been locked into BT.
They’ve always been reasonable in getting prices down when challenged. I’m currently paying £50 for 150mb, plus BT sports, HD upgrade and my mobile phone.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff