Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it
Discussion
thatsprettyshady said:
Wings said:
Austin_Metro said:
When a tenant deliberately sets out not to pay and to damage a property (leaving a tap running and poo everywhere is just not acceptable) you’d think the Landlord deserves some protection.
But the tenants will say they never left the tap running, it must have been the landlord when he illegally entered their home. They will also possibly say that they have personal possessions missing, the same that the OP opened himself up to when without permission entering the tenants home.
t of a tenant was smart enough to lock the door then kick it open as he abandonned it with st and grafitti everywhere, water running, nails through water pipes and light switches made into booby traps. He was taken to court but got off with it because the door was already open/ swinging off it's hinges when we and the court officers reposessed it. it couldn't be proved that someone else hadn't broken in and done the damage after he had left it in perfect condition.Abandonment of a rental property by a tenant is a legal act, and if the OP's tenant/s were to proceed with a claim for unlawful eviction via either the police, local authority and/or Shelter through the courts, then the OP would have to prove abandonment to the court, and that the OP had taken all reasonable steps prior to taking repossession of the OP's property.
Over the last 35 years of being a LL, I have heard some horrid stories of LLs seeking repossession of a rental property, whilst damage through upstairs running water tap being quite common, a new one i recently heard of, was of a departing tenant removing all sockets and light switches, then cutting the electrical wires right back to the surface of the wall.
Over the last 35 years of being a LL, I have heard some horrid stories of LLs seeking repossession of a rental property, whilst damage through upstairs running water tap being quite common, a new one i recently heard of, was of a departing tenant removing all sockets and light switches, then cutting the electrical wires right back to the surface of the wall.
TheBinarySheep said:
The tenants have moved out, but because they can't afford to hire a van they won't hand the keys back until they have the money to hire a van and collect their larger possessions.
They've confirmed they've moved out, and we know that their UC claim has been changed to pay their new landlord, as far as I'm concerned they've abandoned the property and I want to go in, change the locks and give them two weeks to get their stuff. They're arguing that it's illegal and if they go to the property and find the locks changed, they'll call the police. It feels like they're trying to inflict more financial outlay on us just because they can.
If we wait for bailiffs we are looking at another 6 weeks at least.
I'm consulting with our solicitor on what we can and can't do next.
They have moved out and given the UC office their new address and it does not appear they have asked UC to pay rent for both dwellings for a limited period of time.They've confirmed they've moved out, and we know that their UC claim has been changed to pay their new landlord, as far as I'm concerned they've abandoned the property and I want to go in, change the locks and give them two weeks to get their stuff. They're arguing that it's illegal and if they go to the property and find the locks changed, they'll call the police. It feels like they're trying to inflict more financial outlay on us just because they can.
If we wait for bailiffs we are looking at another 6 weeks at least.
I'm consulting with our solicitor on what we can and can't do next.
So, they haven't ABANDONED the property, they've left it (to live somewhere else)
Get on with the insurance claim and forget about them.
ETA: What you want the loss adjuster to do is to get the insurance company to agree a sum to pay to you in respect of the restoration of whatever they agree is covered. Loss adjusters assessments of this sum is usually pretty high. So you kindly offer to do it for a bit less - a few hundred less. They're always happy to pay out less than what they assessed the loss to be.
Then you start unpacking your DIY skills and engaging some friendly local tradesmen of your acquaintance.
Edited by Groat on Sunday 13th February 20:26
TheBinarySheep said:
They're arguing that it's illegal and if they go to the property and find the locks changed, they'll call the police.
Grout you then reply and I quote you:
"So, they haven't ABANDONED the property"
Which is exactly the point I am making, they still retain the tenancy on the OP's property. The tenants holding a tenancy on another rental property is absolutely irrelevant. My advice to the OP is if the tenants refuse to sign over the end of their tenancy to the OP, is that the OP seek possession through instructing court bailiffs.
They're arguing that it's illegal and if they go to the property and find the locks changed, they'll call the police.
Grout you then reply and I quote you:
"So, they haven't ABANDONED the property"
Which is exactly the point I am making, they still retain the tenancy on the OP's property. The tenants holding a tenancy on another rental property is absolutely irrelevant. My advice to the OP is if the tenants refuse to sign over the end of their tenancy to the OP, is that the OP seek possession through instructing court bailiffs.
[quote=Groat]
Nope. They've SURRENDERED and vacated the tenancy, which they are perfectly entitled to do. They have vacated the dwelling and have taken up residence in another dwelling. Actually there is a way they COULD have retained tenancy rights at the OP's dwelling at the same time as the new one, but they haven't. Quite the opposite. They’ve declared to a public office that they are living at a different address and will have been required to produce a lease at the address at which they’ve declared they are living. There are very limited circumstances in which they could lawfully claim to be living at or occupying both. But they have not done this.
When they declare occupancy at dwelling B their rights to entitlements at dwelling A cease.
It's over. And given they're well aware that what they've left in the OPs house is rubbish, they won't be back for it. Nor will any solicitor seek compensation for it because (assuming the OP has documented what they've left behind) the fair value of what the departed tenants have lost aka the compensation to which they are entitled is its worth, ie...zero. If anything, they'll owe HIM for the cost of its disposal which is what landlords are meant to do with rubbish left behind by ex-tenants who are now living elsewhere.
Nope. They've SURRENDERED and vacated the tenancy, which they are perfectly entitled to do. They have vacated the dwelling and have taken up residence in another dwelling. Actually there is a way they COULD have retained tenancy rights at the OP's dwelling at the same time as the new one, but they haven't. Quite the opposite. They’ve declared to a public office that they are living at a different address and will have been required to produce a lease at the address at which they’ve declared they are living. There are very limited circumstances in which they could lawfully claim to be living at or occupying both. But they have not done this.
When they declare occupancy at dwelling B their rights to entitlements at dwelling A cease.
It's over. And given they're well aware that what they've left in the OPs house is rubbish, they won't be back for it. Nor will any solicitor seek compensation for it because (assuming the OP has documented what they've left behind) the fair value of what the departed tenants have lost aka the compensation to which they are entitled is its worth, ie...zero. If anything, they'll owe HIM for the cost of its disposal which is what landlords are meant to do with rubbish left behind by ex-tenants who are now living elsewhere.
Congrats OP on getting them out.
I helped out after my mate after they finally got rid of a bad tenant.
We managed to fill up 15 bin bags of dog st from a garden the size of a large lounge.
House reeked of piss. Reeked.
I would never rent out a property ever after seeing what my friend went through.
I helped out after my mate after they finally got rid of a bad tenant.
We managed to fill up 15 bin bags of dog s
t from a garden the size of a large lounge. House reeked of piss. Reeked.
I would never rent out a property ever after seeing what my friend went through.
Groat]roat said:
Nope. They've SURRENDERED and vacated the tenancy, which they are perfectly entitled to do. They have vacated the dwelling and have taken up residence in another dwelling. Actually there is a way they COULD have retained tenancy rights at the OP's dwelling at the same time as the new one, but they haven't. Quite the opposite. They’ve declared to a public office that they are living at a different address and will have been required to produce a lease at the address at which they’ve declared they are living. There are very limited circumstances in which they could lawfully claim to be living at or occupying both. But they have not done this.
When they declare occupancy at dwelling B their rights to entitlements at dwelling A cease.
It's over. And given they're well aware that what they've left in the OPs house is rubbish, they won't be back for it. Nor will any solicitor seek compensation for it because (assuming the OP has documented what they've left behind) the fair value of what the departed tenants have lost aka the compensation to which they are entitled is its worth, ie...zero. If anything, they'll owe HIM for the cost of its disposal which is what landlords are meant to do with rubbish left behind by ex-tenants who are now living elsewhere.
This is incorrect, they clearly haven’t surrendered as they refuse to give the keys back and empty their belongings. When they declare occupancy at dwelling B their rights to entitlements at dwelling A cease.
It's over. And given they're well aware that what they've left in the OPs house is rubbish, they won't be back for it. Nor will any solicitor seek compensation for it because (assuming the OP has documented what they've left behind) the fair value of what the departed tenants have lost aka the compensation to which they are entitled is its worth, ie...zero. If anything, they'll owe HIM for the cost of its disposal which is what landlords are meant to do with rubbish left behind by ex-tenants who are now living elsewhere.
The fact they have another rental agreement on a another property is also irrelevant.
beanoir said:
This is incorrect, they clearly haven’t surrendered as they refuse to give the keys back and empty their belongings.
The fact they have another rental agreement on a another property is also irrelevant.
Don’t be so silly. Read page 68.The fact they have another rental agreement on a another property is also irrelevant.
The most straightforward way a tenancy can end is by agreement between landlord and tenant. The landlord has told them he’d like them to leave albeit via court and he has had a message from them telling him they’ve moved out.
He has also received a message saying he can have his keys for £50, and there’s really no point in b
hing about changed locks because apparently it was the local authorities and the police who have broken the locks.Nothing except trouble remains for these people to return to, and they won’t.
It’s over. They’re gone. They’re in their new dwelling with their dwp furniture grant to replace the worthless debris they’ve dumped in the house they’ve destroyed - as witnessed by cops and council staff.
Just accept it and stop winding this victim up with nonsense he has nothing to fear from.
bennno said:
Any update OP?
Not really.Police came out to see us, advised us that if the tenant turns up a hour home, to call 999, and if the tenant breaks back into the property they'll be done for criminal damage.
We've heard nothing else from the tenant since Friday evening and regularly checks on the property seem to show they've not been out and caused any damage.
I've bought a 4G router and a ring camera, so I'm off down there today to put that up so we can keep on eye on the house.
On the subject of our actions. We're aware that potentially we may be opening ourselves up to legal action from the tenant, but we've tried our best to protect ourselves as best we can. We'd had enough and were not going to sit by and let someone try to withhold keys to the property in a bid to try and extort money from us, which is all they were doing. They were basically saying it's better for us to give them £100 than it is to pay bailiffs £400, which is correct, but purposefully holding back keys to a property just to get money or cause us more expense is disgusting IMO.
We've been checking the property every day since the date on the eviction notice and the property looked empty and un-lived in, and there had been no lights on. We did make note that all upstairs windows were wide open.
Then on Friday, when we messaged the tenant they confirmed that they're living somewhere else, and tried to extort money from us. When I went to check on the property I could hear running water from the bathroom (we have video evidence of that and 6 council employees as witnesses) and noticed that the bathroom window had been closed (as if to prevent someone climbing through it). At that point, I had reasonable justification to believe that the tenants were no longer living in the property, and as a landlord can enter a property in an emergency, I did. I then turned off the water and changed the locks to the prevent the (ex) tenants doing any further damage to the property.
We've got photographs of the property before they moved in, and after, and there is a stark difference. When I went into the property, there were no personal possessions (clothes etc), just part of a sofa, a bed, and loads of rubbish.
The people from the council that were with us, are part of a group that's been put together to improve the area, and they have emergency powers to enter a property, which they gave too. Combine that with the fact that the council arrange for the Police to attend and remove the lock from one of the door, to me, helps our case.
It was our sons birthday over the weekend, so we've just got on with enjoying the weekend.
We've been checking the property every day since the date on the eviction notice and the property looked empty and un-lived in, and there had been no lights on. We did make note that all upstairs windows were wide open.
Then on Friday, when we messaged the tenant they confirmed that they're living somewhere else, and tried to extort money from us. When I went to check on the property I could hear running water from the bathroom (we have video evidence of that and 6 council employees as witnesses) and noticed that the bathroom window had been closed (as if to prevent someone climbing through it). At that point, I had reasonable justification to believe that the tenants were no longer living in the property, and as a landlord can enter a property in an emergency, I did. I then turned off the water and changed the locks to the prevent the (ex) tenants doing any further damage to the property.
We've got photographs of the property before they moved in, and after, and there is a stark difference. When I went into the property, there were no personal possessions (clothes etc), just part of a sofa, a bed, and loads of rubbish.
The people from the council that were with us, are part of a group that's been put together to improve the area, and they have emergency powers to enter a property, which they gave too. Combine that with the fact that the council arrange for the Police to attend and remove the lock from one of the door, to me, helps our case.
It was our sons birthday over the weekend, so we've just got on with enjoying the weekend.
Catz said:
What an utter nightmare for you BinarySheep! Glad you’ve, eventually, got possession of your property.
It’s taken me 11 months to get my, non paying, tenant out but at least she left the property with no damage. I’m selling. Sod being a landlord!
going through something similar now - defaulted payments a few times over Christmas so i cut her some slack a few more part payments over the last few months but now zero payment and zero response with the property manager or me.It’s taken me 11 months to get my, non paying, tenant out but at least she left the property with no damage. I’m selling. Sod being a landlord!
time for section 21 now I guess...fun times!
SarlechS said:
.... defaulted payments a few times over Christmas so i cut her some slack a few more part payments over the last few months ....
Although morally it's a nice thing to do, NEVER cut a tenant some slack when it comes to rent.Someone who's struggling for rent one month, is not suddenly going to have next months rent plus the arrears from last month (plus whatever other life costs have cropped up in the meantime....car needing tyres, kids needing new shoes, whatever)
I’d be tempted to send details of how the tenants left the property to the organisations that helped and advised them on playing the system. Council housing, Shelter, any others. MP included to highlight the landlord side of having disgusting tenants and the actions of the “helping” organisations and council housing and benefits agency failure to act properly especially for the lack of communication for rent benefit changes. These certainly compounded the problems.
Good though, that the tenant is out and you can move on.
Good though, that the tenant is out and you can move on.
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