Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it
Discussion
I've replied just saying that as per my previous email, I'll speak with an engineering tomorrow and let her know when we can attend.
I don't know how she can say I'm bulling her. I have plenty of emails here since the day she moved in asking if we can check the property, then asking if we can do a gas safety cert, each time we're met with hurdles and obstacles. It's clear as day that from the day they moved in they've not wanted us anywhere near the property.
I don't know how she can say I'm bulling her. I have plenty of emails here since the day she moved in asking if we can check the property, then asking if we can do a gas safety cert, each time we're met with hurdles and obstacles. It's clear as day that from the day they moved in they've not wanted us anywhere near the property.
JulianHJ said:
OP.
If you're going to ask for advice, at least consider taking it. Stick to your guns, don't fork out for an engineer until you've checked it yourself, keep everything in writing, with reference to the contract.
Also, the police will not be in the slightest bit interested.
I think you're being played.
Best of luck, people like this are parasites.
I appreciate all of the advice so far. Apologies if it seems like I'm not taking onboard the advice.If you're going to ask for advice, at least consider taking it. Stick to your guns, don't fork out for an engineer until you've checked it yourself, keep everything in writing, with reference to the contract.
Also, the police will not be in the slightest bit interested.
I think you're being played.
Best of luck, people like this are parasites.
They say they've performed the basics checks that I would have checked, so I thought it just looks like I'm being awkward if I persist in saying that I need to check the problem first, hence why I've said I'll attend with an engineer once I can get one. I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not putting any obstacles in the way so that if this goes any further I want it to look like I've been willing and trying to help as much as reasonably possible.
It's a Saturday night and now both myself and my wife are stressed to bits over this just trying to what we can without getting emotionally involved.
Again, apologies if anyone feels like we're not taking on board their advice.
Carbon Sasquatch said:
I know I said I was out - but one last thing for you to ponder.....
There is a very valid - and contractually covered - reason for you to go and inspect BEFORE engaging an engineer.
There is really no valid reason for you to attend with a qualified engineer.
It;'s not too late to wise (man) uo - but it's really up to you....
I've asked the tenant to let me know what time I can go down to check the boiler tomorrow, and said I won't be arranging/paying for an engineer callout until I've checked the issue myself.There is a very valid - and contractually covered - reason for you to go and inspect BEFORE engaging an engineer.
There is really no valid reason for you to attend with a qualified engineer.
It;'s not too late to wise (man) uo - but it's really up to you....
QuickQuack said:
Give notice for inspection within 48 hours anyway See how she likes that.
You can insist on inspection prior to engaging an engineer. Tell her that you you will not authorise an engineer prior to an inspection; however, if she decides to engage and pay for an engineer out of her own pocket while denying you access, she's legally free to do so. She should bear in mind that she can't claim any excess costs as a result her action back from you as she didn't allow the inspection.
Having said that, chances are, she's not going to pay you a penny of rent anyway. You're legally entitled to stand your ground on inspection prior to engaging an engineer. If she calls someone out and pays for them, she was never going to pay that money to you so you haven't lost anything. In fact, you've saved yourself the cost of a plumber to fix the boiler.
Thanks, that makes perfect sense.You can insist on inspection prior to engaging an engineer. Tell her that you you will not authorise an engineer prior to an inspection; however, if she decides to engage and pay for an engineer out of her own pocket while denying you access, she's legally free to do so. She should bear in mind that she can't claim any excess costs as a result her action back from you as she didn't allow the inspection.
Having said that, chances are, she's not going to pay you a penny of rent anyway. You're legally entitled to stand your ground on inspection prior to engaging an engineer. If she calls someone out and pays for them, she was never going to pay that money to you so you haven't lost anything. In fact, you've saved yourself the cost of a plumber to fix the boiler.
ok, another response
"it is against the law for anyone other then a gas safety engineer to fix the problem i have been on the phone with several companys tonight that are able to come and fix the boiler and invoice yourself i will glady provide you witha video of the problem and it not working and at a time like this and how you have responded and the fact we are in lockdown and iowe u arrears i find it very awkward and uncomfortable that you a forceable trying to force your way into my property justto be nosey and when you are not registered to touch the boiler you can not refuse to send a engineer to fix my boiler before you view the boiler i have no heating or water at all and by law you have 24hours to fix this i suffer with ptsd and you are making things very uncomfortable for me and it is a very strange demand you demanding to see it before a enginerr comes out you are not trained qualified registered to touch the boiler so if you won't arrange a enginner before 4pm tomorrow i will contact relavant contacts tomorrow and get a engineer to come out and send you the invoice"
I've replied
"There are a number of problems that can occur with a boiler that DO NOT require an engineer to fix, which I would be perfectly capable of fixing myself.
If you let me know when I can look at the problem I’ll come down and have a look, if I can’t fix it then I will arrange an engineer to fix the problem and perform a gas safety check at the same time.
If you continue to prevent me from attending and looking at the problem then I can only suggest that you arrange for the problem to be fixed at your own cost."
"it is against the law for anyone other then a gas safety engineer to fix the problem i have been on the phone with several companys tonight that are able to come and fix the boiler and invoice yourself i will glady provide you witha video of the problem and it not working and at a time like this and how you have responded and the fact we are in lockdown and iowe u arrears i find it very awkward and uncomfortable that you a forceable trying to force your way into my property justto be nosey and when you are not registered to touch the boiler you can not refuse to send a engineer to fix my boiler before you view the boiler i have no heating or water at all and by law you have 24hours to fix this i suffer with ptsd and you are making things very uncomfortable for me and it is a very strange demand you demanding to see it before a enginerr comes out you are not trained qualified registered to touch the boiler so if you won't arrange a enginner before 4pm tomorrow i will contact relavant contacts tomorrow and get a engineer to come out and send you the invoice"
I've replied
"There are a number of problems that can occur with a boiler that DO NOT require an engineer to fix, which I would be perfectly capable of fixing myself.
If you let me know when I can look at the problem I’ll come down and have a look, if I can’t fix it then I will arrange an engineer to fix the problem and perform a gas safety check at the same time.
If you continue to prevent me from attending and looking at the problem then I can only suggest that you arrange for the problem to be fixed at your own cost."
More random replies...
"we have never contacted you with any issues we have ever had and fixed them ourselfs and we were willing to sort rent arrears and stay here but at this present moment as you a being very pushy just to gain access to the property and are making me feel very uncomfortable as a tenant we might have to b looking for alternative accommodation "
"and we will not change our mind for you to come amd try fix the boiler you have 24hours to fix it by law by a gas safety enginerr you are not corgi registered and certainly not touching any part of my boiler"
"we will arrange for a proper gas engineer and will pay for the repair "
My reply to the last email.
"Thanks for letting me know".
"we have never contacted you with any issues we have ever had and fixed them ourselfs and we were willing to sort rent arrears and stay here but at this present moment as you a being very pushy just to gain access to the property and are making me feel very uncomfortable as a tenant we might have to b looking for alternative accommodation "
"and we will not change our mind for you to come amd try fix the boiler you have 24hours to fix it by law by a gas safety enginerr you are not corgi registered and certainly not touching any part of my boiler"
"we will arrange for a proper gas engineer and will pay for the repair "
My reply to the last email.
"Thanks for letting me know".
h and dont let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.....Just to add some context.
When these people came to view the property last year, they said they were leaving the old property because the landlord kept letting himself in when she was in the bath. They couldn't afford the full deposit, but agreed to pay X amount on the day of moving in and the rest over the few month. We put the deposit they paid straight into a deposit scheme. Guess what, we've received no more monies towards the deposit. We provided a copy of a valid gas cert at the time, along with the necessary leaflets that a landlord has to provide.
Early on, we have some complains from one of the neighbours about screaming and shouting and the guy being rude to this particular neighbour. The neighbour didn't want us to do anything and was going to handle it herself.
Just before Christmas we had a call from the council. I can't remember what act it was, but the girl in the property was being monitored as part of some sort of abuse/domestic abuse Act. They asked if we'd had contact as they'd not been able to get in touch. We said we only had contact by email but not for a while. The council said they'd drop off some domestic violence leaflets as the couldn't do any more for her.
It's sounds to me like her partner is over protective and abusive to her.
We think that they're druggies, that there'll be needles all over and damage to the property from his temper. We sent them a letter once with a date and time that we were visiting the property to perform an inspection. When we got there, she answered the door but didn't know anything about the inspect. First thing my wife said was "She's on drugs" and she's got a good eye for that sort of thing.
The tenant hasn't been back in touch.
We're waiting for them to be 6 month in arrears so we can get them out. Our only concern is whether or not we can raise a section 21 without a valid gas cert. What I'm reading says we only have to have provided one when they moved in. I'm going to speak to the council on Monday and let them know about them refusing access for the cert and see if they have any suggestions, at least they'll have it on record that we've spoke to them about it.
It took me hours to get to sleep last night, kept thinking the guy was going to turn up and throw brick through a car window or something.
When these people came to view the property last year, they said they were leaving the old property because the landlord kept letting himself in when she was in the bath. They couldn't afford the full deposit, but agreed to pay X amount on the day of moving in and the rest over the few month. We put the deposit they paid straight into a deposit scheme. Guess what, we've received no more monies towards the deposit. We provided a copy of a valid gas cert at the time, along with the necessary leaflets that a landlord has to provide.
Early on, we have some complains from one of the neighbours about screaming and shouting and the guy being rude to this particular neighbour. The neighbour didn't want us to do anything and was going to handle it herself.
Just before Christmas we had a call from the council. I can't remember what act it was, but the girl in the property was being monitored as part of some sort of abuse/domestic abuse Act. They asked if we'd had contact as they'd not been able to get in touch. We said we only had contact by email but not for a while. The council said they'd drop off some domestic violence leaflets as the couldn't do any more for her.
It's sounds to me like her partner is over protective and abusive to her.
We think that they're druggies, that there'll be needles all over and damage to the property from his temper. We sent them a letter once with a date and time that we were visiting the property to perform an inspection. When we got there, she answered the door but didn't know anything about the inspect. First thing my wife said was "She's on drugs" and she's got a good eye for that sort of thing.
The tenant hasn't been back in touch.
We're waiting for them to be 6 month in arrears so we can get them out. Our only concern is whether or not we can raise a section 21 without a valid gas cert. What I'm reading says we only have to have provided one when they moved in. I'm going to speak to the council on Monday and let them know about them refusing access for the cert and see if they have any suggestions, at least they'll have it on record that we've spoke to them about it.
It took me hours to get to sleep last night, kept thinking the guy was going to turn up and throw brick through a car window or something.
Louis Balfour said:
A lesson learnt then. If a prospective tenant doesn't have the necessary money to move in, and wants to pay "a bit extra on the rent" to make it up they will in all probability be a PITA.
We have a standard list of questions for applicants, the last of which is "this is how much you will need to move in, have you got that sum of money?" If their answer is no, so is ours.
It's all good in theory, but because of the area that this property is in, hardly anyone has a deposit because almost everyone in these houses are on benefits. I can't stress how much of a dump the area is. There are almost full streets of boarded up houses along with some having been burnt out. No respectable person wants to live in these streets. It's sad, because the area used to be half decent. It was never great, but it was far better than it is now. We paid £47k for the house back in 2005, had it valued at £65k in 2009, and in 2021 a half decent one might sell for £25k. Some of them have sold at auction for £14k!!!We have a standard list of questions for applicants, the last of which is "this is how much you will need to move in, have you got that sum of money?" If their answer is no, so is ours.
We've already decided that once they're out, we're taking the money out of our main home, paying the rental mortgage off and selling it. We're just going to have to take the hit. The money we lose per year on the property could be paid towards our own mortgage to pay off the money we've lost.
On another note. Could I raise a section 21 today telling them that they have 6 month, and then next month raise another section 21 that replaces the first one and tells them that they have 1 month (they'll be six month in arrears). Or do we just wait until next month?
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Sunday 10th January 08:13
I've emailed the tenant this morning just asking how she got on.
I've also said that I'm arranging a gas safety check for the 20th January and I've stressed how delaying these checks any further is putting themselves at risk. No doubt she'll come back telling me the date/time in unsuitable, or she'll cancel the day before giving some BS excuse.
I've also said that I'm arranging a gas safety check for the 20th January and I've stressed how delaying these checks any further is putting themselves at risk. No doubt she'll come back telling me the date/time in unsuitable, or she'll cancel the day before giving some BS excuse.
Wacky Racer said:
This.
Then the engineer can let you know whether the place is trashed or she is running a weed factory in there.
The problem here is, I suspect that they only want an engineer to go in the front door, up the stairs and straight to the boiler. Fix it, and leave. I have a feeling that they would prevent even the engineer having access to the rest of the house to service/check gas fire and gas hob.Then the engineer can let you know whether the place is trashed or she is running a weed factory in there.
This is a bit long winded, but I've put together a document detailing all of our communication since they moved in. I have a copy of letters and emails to back up most of this.
12th May 2020
Tenancy started - deposit of £300 required, only £100 paid. Tenant agree to pay per month, but no further payments received.
6th June 2020
Letter sent advising tenant to get in touch to arrange a suitable time to perform the gas safety check. No response from tenant.
14th June 2020
Gas Safety Cert Expired.
Unknown date
Tenant emailed landlord, they were short in benefits, could they have £50 of their deposit back. £50 refunded to tenant as a loan. No further deposit/loan payments received from the tenant.
30th June 2020
Email sent to tenant querying why the tenant has not made any further payments towards the deposit. Also raised the point that we’ve tried to contact them via phone, WhatApp and email and have had no response. Advised tenant that as per the contract we would be visiting the property on the 3rd of July to perform a property inspection.
3rd July 2020
Email from tenant advising that they couldn’t make the inspection that day as the tenant has an emergency doctors appointment.
22nd July 2020
Email sent to tenant about property inspection and how we asked them to provide a suitable date but they have no done so. We said that a property inspection would take place on the 29th July.
28th July 2020
Email from tenant saying that they’ve not been in touch because they lost their auntie two weeks ago and have been told that her dad has prostate cancer and won’t make it past Christmas. Tenant asked if the inspection could be put off for two weeks as they are very stressed.
August (exact date not known) Communication sent to tenant advising that we’d be attending to perform a property inspection. At least 24 hours notice was provided. Landlord and wife attended property, tenant answered door but was unaware of the inspection and denied access. Tenant was asked to get in touch with us to arrange a date/time that would be suitable.
24th September 2020
Emailed tenant advising that we need to arrange a gas safety check, and that we would arrange one between the 5th - 9th October if she could let us know which date would be suitable.
29th September 2020
Letter sent to tenant advising that we need to arrange a gas safety inspection, could they please get in touch to arrange a suitable date/time.
6th October 2020
Email from tenant saying they’ve only just seen the email and that they won’t be available for any of the days we suggested in our previous email because it’s a busy month for them as they have lots of birthdays. They suggested we arrange one for November.
12th November 2020
Letter sent to client advising them that we had arranged a has engineer to attend on the 25th November to perform a gas safety check/service. The tenant was advised that if the date wasn’t suitable, to get in touch as soon as possible.
19th November 2020
Emailed tenant advising them that we hadn’t received rent payment and could we have an update.
24th November 2020
Email from tenant to say her auntie has died from Covid and they’ve been told that they have to isolate for two weeks. Rent will be with us soon. Tenant said that she’ll been ill, and that once she is back to 100% she will get in touch to arrange inspection and gas safety check.
7th January 2020
Email sent to tenant, letter posted through letter box and letter sent recorded delivery. Raised to point that tenant is in arrears and asked how they were going to pay rent and clear arrears. Also raised concerns that we’ve been prevented access to the property since they moved in and that we need to hear from them before the 11th January 2021.
9th January 2020
Email from tenant advising us she has been in hospital with her mental health. Rent will be with us as normal from the 18th January and they are speaking with a parent to clear any arrears. Tenant advised landlord that the boiler is broke, could landlord arrange an engineer to fix this evening.
Tenant was advised that landlord would attend to investigate the issue with the boiler, and arrange an engineer if the problem couldn’t be fixed.
Tenant refused landlord having access to the property saying that the property was untidy. The landlord suggested that the tenant spends a little time tidying up so that he could visit. The tenant suggested that that they feel like the landlord is bulling them to get access to the property and because she has been unwell the tenant has underwear laying around that she didn’t want the landlord to see. Tenant also suggested that the boiler can only be touched by a certified gas engineer and there was nothing that the landlord could do to fix the problem. Tenant also suggested that they didn’t want the landlord touching the boiler as it would put them at risk. The tenant said that if the landlord attends the property, they will call the police and threatened the landlord with having their partner remove the landlord from the premises.
The landlord advised the tenant that an engineer will not be engaged until the problem has been investigated by the landlord. The tenant was advised that there are a number of boiler related issues that can be fixed without a gas certified engineer and that the landlord wanted to cover the basics before engaging an engineer at the landlords cost. The landlord wanted access to check things such as the boiler pressure, that the boiler had electric, to perform a reset on the boiler and to check that the boiler overflow pipe had not frozen up and become blocked due to the snow and freezing temperatures. Resolving some of these issues would not require a gas engineer.
Tenant advised landlord that the boiler has to be fixed within 24 hours, and that they’d be speaking to their solicitor.
Landlord re-affirmed to the tenant that the problem needed to be investigated first, and if they were going to continue to deny the landlord access to investigate the problem that the only solution was for the tenant to engage their own engineer to fix the problem at their own cost. Tenant agreed to source their own engineer.
10th January 2020
Email sent to tenant politely asking how they got on arranging an engineer. Also advised tenant that a gas safety inspection will be booked for 20th January. Tenant has been advised to let landlord know if this isn’t suitable.
12th May 2020
Tenancy started - deposit of £300 required, only £100 paid. Tenant agree to pay per month, but no further payments received.
6th June 2020
Letter sent advising tenant to get in touch to arrange a suitable time to perform the gas safety check. No response from tenant.
14th June 2020
Gas Safety Cert Expired.
Unknown date
Tenant emailed landlord, they were short in benefits, could they have £50 of their deposit back. £50 refunded to tenant as a loan. No further deposit/loan payments received from the tenant.
30th June 2020
Email sent to tenant querying why the tenant has not made any further payments towards the deposit. Also raised the point that we’ve tried to contact them via phone, WhatApp and email and have had no response. Advised tenant that as per the contract we would be visiting the property on the 3rd of July to perform a property inspection.
3rd July 2020
Email from tenant advising that they couldn’t make the inspection that day as the tenant has an emergency doctors appointment.
22nd July 2020
Email sent to tenant about property inspection and how we asked them to provide a suitable date but they have no done so. We said that a property inspection would take place on the 29th July.
28th July 2020
Email from tenant saying that they’ve not been in touch because they lost their auntie two weeks ago and have been told that her dad has prostate cancer and won’t make it past Christmas. Tenant asked if the inspection could be put off for two weeks as they are very stressed.
August (exact date not known) Communication sent to tenant advising that we’d be attending to perform a property inspection. At least 24 hours notice was provided. Landlord and wife attended property, tenant answered door but was unaware of the inspection and denied access. Tenant was asked to get in touch with us to arrange a date/time that would be suitable.
24th September 2020
Emailed tenant advising that we need to arrange a gas safety check, and that we would arrange one between the 5th - 9th October if she could let us know which date would be suitable.
29th September 2020
Letter sent to tenant advising that we need to arrange a gas safety inspection, could they please get in touch to arrange a suitable date/time.
6th October 2020
Email from tenant saying they’ve only just seen the email and that they won’t be available for any of the days we suggested in our previous email because it’s a busy month for them as they have lots of birthdays. They suggested we arrange one for November.
12th November 2020
Letter sent to client advising them that we had arranged a has engineer to attend on the 25th November to perform a gas safety check/service. The tenant was advised that if the date wasn’t suitable, to get in touch as soon as possible.
19th November 2020
Emailed tenant advising them that we hadn’t received rent payment and could we have an update.
24th November 2020
Email from tenant to say her auntie has died from Covid and they’ve been told that they have to isolate for two weeks. Rent will be with us soon. Tenant said that she’ll been ill, and that once she is back to 100% she will get in touch to arrange inspection and gas safety check.
7th January 2020
Email sent to tenant, letter posted through letter box and letter sent recorded delivery. Raised to point that tenant is in arrears and asked how they were going to pay rent and clear arrears. Also raised concerns that we’ve been prevented access to the property since they moved in and that we need to hear from them before the 11th January 2021.
9th January 2020
Email from tenant advising us she has been in hospital with her mental health. Rent will be with us as normal from the 18th January and they are speaking with a parent to clear any arrears. Tenant advised landlord that the boiler is broke, could landlord arrange an engineer to fix this evening.
Tenant was advised that landlord would attend to investigate the issue with the boiler, and arrange an engineer if the problem couldn’t be fixed.
Tenant refused landlord having access to the property saying that the property was untidy. The landlord suggested that the tenant spends a little time tidying up so that he could visit. The tenant suggested that that they feel like the landlord is bulling them to get access to the property and because she has been unwell the tenant has underwear laying around that she didn’t want the landlord to see. Tenant also suggested that the boiler can only be touched by a certified gas engineer and there was nothing that the landlord could do to fix the problem. Tenant also suggested that they didn’t want the landlord touching the boiler as it would put them at risk. The tenant said that if the landlord attends the property, they will call the police and threatened the landlord with having their partner remove the landlord from the premises.
The landlord advised the tenant that an engineer will not be engaged until the problem has been investigated by the landlord. The tenant was advised that there are a number of boiler related issues that can be fixed without a gas certified engineer and that the landlord wanted to cover the basics before engaging an engineer at the landlords cost. The landlord wanted access to check things such as the boiler pressure, that the boiler had electric, to perform a reset on the boiler and to check that the boiler overflow pipe had not frozen up and become blocked due to the snow and freezing temperatures. Resolving some of these issues would not require a gas engineer.
Tenant advised landlord that the boiler has to be fixed within 24 hours, and that they’d be speaking to their solicitor.
Landlord re-affirmed to the tenant that the problem needed to be investigated first, and if they were going to continue to deny the landlord access to investigate the problem that the only solution was for the tenant to engage their own engineer to fix the problem at their own cost. Tenant agreed to source their own engineer.
10th January 2020
Email sent to tenant politely asking how they got on arranging an engineer. Also advised tenant that a gas safety inspection will be booked for 20th January. Tenant has been advised to let landlord know if this isn’t suitable.
steveo3002 said:
not being a c0ck here ...but couldnt pay the deposit , on benefits , maybe a druggie , why didnt you wait for someone thats in work /appears to not be a scum bag?
anyway best of luck...what a horror
The property has already been empty for months by this point. Honestly, I can't stress what a horrible place it is around this property. Anyone wanting to live in those houses will never pass a credit check and will never be able to provide a positive reference from a previous landlord. You take on a tenant and just hope for the best.anyway best of luck...what a horror
All of the warning signs where there, but they were with everyone that came to see the property and all of those that rented it before them.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff