Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it
Discussion
digimeistter said:
Only skim read so apologies if this has been said.
Send her written notice giving her 24 hours notice of intention to enter the property, you have every right to go in legally then.
Attend with engineer get boiler fixed.
The bad news is you cannot issue a section 21 without a valid GSC - well you can but the Court will throw it out - and from end of March a valid EICR ( electrical certificate)
Under new Covid legislation you now have to give 6 months notice to the tenant.
The problem is, we can attend but she doesn't have to let us in.Send her written notice giving her 24 hours notice of intention to enter the property, you have every right to go in legally then.
Attend with engineer get boiler fixed.
The bad news is you cannot issue a section 21 without a valid GSC - well you can but the Court will throw it out - and from end of March a valid EICR ( electrical certificate)
Under new Covid legislation you now have to give 6 months notice to the tenant.
KingofKong said:
It’s classed as harassment now, at a possession hearing it’s heavily frowned upon.
We never needed to gain access, nearly all of our gas meters are external for exactly this reason.
We also used to lock tenants out of the property if they were in large arrears, again not something you can do these days, sadly.
To the op - Tell the tenant you’re selling the property to a Mr P Rachmaninov or Mr N V Hoogstraten, that might focus her mind a little
I remember back in the 90's a friends dad used to rent out properties. He'd turn up with a baseball bat in his boot and take his german shepherd with him when evicting people. Back then you could do stuff that you couldn't possibly get away with now.We never needed to gain access, nearly all of our gas meters are external for exactly this reason.
We also used to lock tenants out of the property if they were in large arrears, again not something you can do these days, sadly.
To the op - Tell the tenant you’re selling the property to a Mr P Rachmaninov or Mr N V Hoogstraten, that might focus her mind a little
digimeistter said:
You have the right to let yourself in with a key, if she's changed the locks then you can't get in but that will also constitute a breach of contract.
If I were you I would be going down The Section 8 route for eviction immediately.
It will cost more initially but save a huge rent arrears bill and potentially more damage to the property.
Do we raise the section 8 today and give them 6 month notice, or do we wait until next month when they'll be six month in arrears and give them 1 month notice?If I were you I would be going down The Section 8 route for eviction immediately.
It will cost more initially but save a huge rent arrears bill and potentially more damage to the property.
digimeistter said:
You have to provide two counts of breach of contract rent arrears being one. You can go straight for a section 8 now.
Correct me if I'm wrong. If we issue a section 8 now, we have to give them 6 month notice to vacate as they're less than 6 month in arrears.If we wait until Feb they'll be 6 month in arrears and because of that we only need to give them 4 weeks notice to vacate.
So do we issue a section 8 now, or wait until Feb? It seems to make sense to wait until February as that might get them out in 2 month rather than 6.
Or do we raise a section 8 now, then raise another next month to replace the first?
Fckitdriveon said:
Huge sympathies for the OP, as has already been alluded too youre a soft touch which in a world full of aholes isn’t anything to be ashamed of.
Unfortunately as you’re well aware you’ve been taken for a ride , and they are continuing to do so.
I can only assume the place is trashed and/or being used a drug den, or grow house .
It is now time to ramp up things and there has been some great advice given, if you don’t like confrontation (which there will be an element of here) then engage a professional to do it for you.
You have a tenant who isn’t engaging with you (unless they want something for nothing ) and is being Obstructive at every turn, you have documented everything ,let them go to court , any magistrate with half a brain cell will see what’s going on here. Covid or not , 6 months is nearly upon you- get that eviction notice served the minute you can.
In the meantime , I wouldn’t be doing anything she asked, there’s tenants rights but she has forfeited any of those with her behaviour , she’s run out of relatives who’ve died or got covid by now and of course it’s all b*llocks.
Wish you well and do feel for you ....it’s so weighted against landlords now more than ever.
We always try to treat others in the same way that we'd like to be treat. It's one of our many faults.Unfortunately as you’re well aware you’ve been taken for a ride , and they are continuing to do so.
I can only assume the place is trashed and/or being used a drug den, or grow house .
It is now time to ramp up things and there has been some great advice given, if you don’t like confrontation (which there will be an element of here) then engage a professional to do it for you.
You have a tenant who isn’t engaging with you (unless they want something for nothing ) and is being Obstructive at every turn, you have documented everything ,let them go to court , any magistrate with half a brain cell will see what’s going on here. Covid or not , 6 months is nearly upon you- get that eviction notice served the minute you can.
In the meantime , I wouldn’t be doing anything she asked, there’s tenants rights but she has forfeited any of those with her behaviour , she’s run out of relatives who’ve died or got covid by now and of course it’s all b*llocks.
Wish you well and do feel for you ....it’s so weighted against landlords now more than ever.
Austin_Metro said:
I found this helpful:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/evic...
Seems you can issue both notices provided the right arises. So if you issue the ‘long’ notice will it make her pay a little or make sure she doesn’t. Tactically, at this stage, don’t you want to encourage non payment so that the right to the ‘short’ notice arises?
Yes, if we're being tactical about it, we don't really want them to pay any more money so that they reach 6 month of arrears. If we raise a section 8 today it could make them aware (if they're not already) and they'll make a payment.https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/evic...
Seems you can issue both notices provided the right arises. So if you issue the ‘long’ notice will it make her pay a little or make sure she doesn’t. Tactically, at this stage, don’t you want to encourage non payment so that the right to the ‘short’ notice arises?
digimeistter said:
I don't think that link takes into account the changes made to notice periods during the Covid crisis.bobbysmithy said:
This. Which is a shame as I am sure he is a nice guy.
But when he posted this...: 'I've emailed the tenant this morning just asking how she got on'.
OP seems more willing to post repeat questions than look at who is providing the advice.
Again, apologies if it seems like I'm not taking advice on board. I've got it coming from all different directions at the minute and sadly I'm not familiar enough with PH to check profiles etc. Now I know about it, I'm checking.But when he posted this...: 'I've emailed the tenant this morning just asking how she got on'.
OP seems more willing to post repeat questions than look at who is providing the advice.
I'm learning every day.
digimeistter said:
So looking at that. If the tenant is in less than 6 month of arrears, we have to give them 6 month notice. Once they're in 6 month of arrears then we only need to give them 4 weeks notice.It seems to make sense to sit back until next month, hope they don't make any more payments and raise a section 8 in February on the grounds of unpaid rent and breach of tenancy agreement (failure to provide access for repairs/inspections). The only issue with waiting until next month is, if they do make a payment in February, then we'll have to raise a section 8 (6 month notice) and will have wasted a month waiting.
Wings said:
It is always preferable for a landlord/agent to make an appointment to either inspect, attend a boiler and/or another type of repair, then to attend in person at the appointed time. Only then, by the tenant refusing access to the landlord/agent/contractor etc., will the court recognise that the tenant has refused access.
In the OP's situation, I would be talking to local neighbours of the rental property, and try to obtain some local information on the tenant/s, occupants, property etc.
I would already have served a Section 8 Notice on the tenant, 4 weeks Notice for over 6 months rental arrears, under 6 months arrears 6 months Notice. Section 21 Notice if preferred needs a 6 months Notice, but is in force for 10 months
Lots of hurdles a landlord needs to cross before a valid Notice can be served, and if in doubt the OP should ensure any Deposit monies are protected, either under the original Assured Tenancy Agreement, and/or a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.
Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate.
In thirty plus years of being a landlord, I have only ever had one tenant refuse me inspection access to a property, that end with the property being completely trashed, with many months of unpaid rent, and police in attendance when the bailiffs removed the tenants.
Apologies, I missed this one.In the OP's situation, I would be talking to local neighbours of the rental property, and try to obtain some local information on the tenant/s, occupants, property etc.
I would already have served a Section 8 Notice on the tenant, 4 weeks Notice for over 6 months rental arrears, under 6 months arrears 6 months Notice. Section 21 Notice if preferred needs a 6 months Notice, but is in force for 10 months
Lots of hurdles a landlord needs to cross before a valid Notice can be served, and if in doubt the OP should ensure any Deposit monies are protected, either under the original Assured Tenancy Agreement, and/or a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.
Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate.
In thirty plus years of being a landlord, I have only ever had one tenant refuse me inspection access to a property, that end with the property being completely trashed, with many months of unpaid rent, and police in attendance when the bailiffs removed the tenants.
You suggest raising a section 8 notice. The tenant is 5 month in arrears, would you suggest raising a section 8 now anyway giving 6 month notice, or wait until next month, hope they don't make a rent payment and then issue a section 8 giving 4 weeks notice?
I've drove past the property a couple of times, it looks ok outside other than some rubbish and an old fridge/freezer in the yard. We used to live in the property so we still know the neighbours. There were some concerns initially from a neighbour about screaming and shouting during the night, but she didn't want us to get involved and was handling it herself. The local council have some concerns about the female tenant which relate to abuse/domestic abuse, so we suspect that she has an abusive/protective partner (based on the information we've gathered).
Any deposit paid by the tenant was put in the DPS (https://depositprotection.com/switch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA6Or_BRC_ARIsAPzuer_aYp_JfeGZGvQnvrAGBk4KYYAtJL5qHSPwA-4E1ggFYEAzZ5kgmcEaAkPTEALw_wcB) as soon as we received it. The tenancy started in May 2020 so the tenant was provided with a copy of the gas safety cert which was valid at the time, along with a copy of the "How to rent leaflet".
Wacky Racer said:
So looking in the bright side (I know it's difficult) You have had £1600 whereas if the house was empty you would have had zilch.
I appreciate this does not jn any way make up for the stress you have had to endure.....
In the meantime we've pulled out almost £5k in mortgage payment and landlords insurance. We're currently -£4,400 and that's not including any repairs we'll have to do or any legal fees we might need to pay to evict them. Yet another year where this property costs us money at the end of the year.I appreciate this does not jn any way make up for the stress you have had to endure.....
In hindsight, we wish we'd just sold the property back in 2009 when we moved out. We did have a run where the same tenant lived in the house for three years, up until the point where he stopped paying his rent as well and we have to serve a section 21 to evict him.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Sunday 10th January 10:34
This situation may not occur, but, if I receive a call from the tenants engineer saying that they can fix the problem with the boiler for £x at my cost, is it reasonable for me to reject? or would I just be seen as being awkward?
I have this feeling that she's going to get an engineer out and tell them that the landlord will be paying for the repair, so I'll get a call asking me to authorise the repair from the engineer.
I have this feeling that she's going to get an engineer out and tell them that the landlord will be paying for the repair, so I'll get a call asking me to authorise the repair from the engineer.
The_Nugget said:
In my opinion, allowing them to get their engineer is a mistake.
You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
Sadly based on other advice I've already picked a route and for now I need to persist down that route and stick to my guns. Which is not to say that I don't appreciate your input or that I'm completely ignoring it. At this stage if I arrange an engineer it looks like I'm chopping and changing my mind and makes it look like I don't know what I'm doing. I may not know what I'm doing, but I don't want the tenants to know that.You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
I have every confidence that the tenant would prevent an engineer from accessing any other part of the property other than where the boiler is located. So if I arrange an engineer, they'll end up with the boiler fixed and I'll be no further forward.
Thats What She Said said:
You've shot yourself in the foot by allowing them to take control of it. It's not in their best interests to keep the costs down. They will likely call someone like British Gas who will charge £xxx to fix it (no doubt they will need to replace X/Y/Z on the boiler to get it working). Alternaitively you could have arranged for a local indy to take a look and fix it for £xx.
Either get it sorted yourself and take responibility for it, or be prepared to bend over for British Gas.
It doesn't matter how much it's going to cost, they've agreed to pay for the repair.Either get it sorted yourself and take responibility for it, or be prepared to bend over for British Gas.
Surely if someone like British Gas contacts me with a big bill, I'll reject the work on the basis of wanting to get a second opinion/quote from another engineer.
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