Energy price rises - what are you paying?

[B'stard Child]

Scottish Power

Gas unit (per kWh) from 6.784p to 7.309p (inc vat)

Gas SC (per day) from 29.62p to 29.60p (inc vat)

Elec unit (per kWh) from 27.931p to 29.215p (inc vat)

Elec SC (per day) from 44.02p to 44.00p (inc vat)

[Scabutz]

I'm a bit mystified by a couple of things.

1. The wholesale price of energy has been on a downward trend for a while. I know seasonal demand increases prices buy why is the cap going up again if the main trend is down.

2. Why does the standing charge keep going up? Is it progressively getting more and more expensive to provide the service?

Maybe I'm over simplifying things.

[Ham_and_Jam]

Scabutz said:

I'm a bit mystified by a couple of things.

1. The wholesale price of energy has been on a downward trend for a while. I know seasonal demand increases prices buy why is the cap going up again if the main trend is down.

2. Why does the standing charge keep going up? Is it progressively getting more and more expensive to provide the service?

Maybe I'm over simplifying things.

Moreover, why the fk are energy companies making obscene profits.

British Gas posted £939m in the last operating year, and yet we’re told how to scrimp and save and look after every penny when it comes to our energy bills.

I got a email telling me to heat the person not the house if I was struggling, whilst they made record profits from this crisis.

fking obscene and can’t believe there hasn’t been a bigger outcry.

[Scabutz]

Ham_and_Jam said:

Scabutz said:

I'm a bit mystified by a couple of things.

1. The wholesale price of energy has been on a downward trend for a while. I know seasonal demand increases prices buy why is the cap going up again if the main trend is down.

2. Why does the standing charge keep going up? Is it progressively getting more and more expensive to provide the service?

Maybe I'm over simplifying things.

Moreover, why the fk are energy companies making obscene profits.

British Gas posted £939m in the last operating year, and yet we’re told how to scrimp and save and look after every penny when it comes to our energy bills.

I got a email telling me to heat the person not the house if I was struggling, whilst they made record profits from this crisis.

fking obscene and can’t believe there hasn’t been a bigger outcry.

I could be wrong but I think the mega profits come from the oil and gas extraction and selling it.

The little providers like Octopus etc aren't making bns

Should be a bigger windfall tax on those big people though as they are doing what they always did and just making more because the price is higher

[soupdragon1]

Ham_and_Jam said:

Scabutz said:

I'm a bit mystified by a couple of things.

1. The wholesale price of energy has been on a downward trend for a while. I know seasonal demand increases prices buy why is the cap going up again if the main trend is down.

2. Why does the standing charge keep going up? Is it progressively getting more and more expensive to provide the service?

Maybe I'm over simplifying things.

Moreover, why the fk are energy companies making obscene profits.

British Gas posted £939m in the last operating year, and yet we’re told how to scrimp and save and look after every penny when it comes to our energy bills.

I got a email telling me to heat the person not the house if I was struggling, whilst they made record profits from this crisis.

fking obscene and can’t believe there hasn’t been a bigger outcry.

That's not a lot of annual profit. BP make that kind of profit in just over a fortnight.

[Cupid-stunt]

Scabutz said:

I'm a bit mystified by a couple of things.

1. The wholesale price of energy has been on a downward trend for a while. I know seasonal demand increases prices buy why is the cap going up again if the main trend is down.

2. Why does the standing charge keep going up? Is it progressively getting more and more expensive to provide the service?

Maybe I'm over simplifying things.

you are correct - wholesale prices are coming off. This should be reflected in the next price cap that is set.
When the current price cap was set, it was based on prices over a previous time span - and prices had increased marginally.

As for the S/C - that is a function of a number of things, but failure of firms that offered unstustainable prices (see how many have failed) is included in that.

[FiF]

It's got to the stage that people are getting seriously brassed off, eg the £16 charge to cover the debts of those who can't pay their bills.

Bad debts is part of doing business, unless you're a privatised utility it seems. Must pay the shareholders etc.

See water companies, we need to increase prices to deal with infrastructure updates. Years later, oh there's an issue with old infrastructure. So we need to increase prices. But but but...

Bad decisions is part of doing business, seems only one set pays for it though.

[PF62]

FiF said:

It's got to the stage that people are getting seriously brassed off, eg the £16 charge to cover the debts of those who can't pay their bills.

Bad debts is part of doing business, unless you're a privatised utility it seems. Must pay the shareholders etc.

Two issues -

Firstly you are not comparing 'like for like' as most businesses can tell people to FO and not supply them if they don't pay, but with the utilities the government tells them they cannot cut off vulnerable people and have restricted the use of pre-payment meters.

Secondly those businesses that do suffer losses for non-payment do add that cost to the customers that do pay, it is just you don't see it because they are not regulated and it is not explicitly set out as a charge.

Other than that...

[FiF]

PF62 said:

FiF said:

It's got to the stage that people are getting seriously brassed off, eg the £16 charge to cover the debts of those who can't pay their bills.

Bad debts is part of doing business, unless you're a privatised utility it seems. Must pay the shareholders etc.

Two issues -

Firstly you are not comparing 'like for like' as most businesses can tell people to FO and not supply them if they don't pay, but with the utilities the government tells them they cannot cut off vulnerable people and have restricted the use of pre-payment meters.

Secondly those businesses that do suffer losses for non-payment do add that cost to the customers that do pay, it is just you don't see it because they are not regulated and it is not explicitly set out as a charge.

Other than that...

That's all fair enough, my real gripe is with water industry, as a customer of X I can't tell them to FO as I'm going with Y.

[Cupid-stunt]

Scabutz said:

I'm a bit mystified by a couple of things.

1. The wholesale price of energy has been on a downward trend for a while. I know seasonal demand increases prices buy why is the cap going up again if the main trend is down.

2. Why does the standing charge keep going up? Is it progressively getting more and more expensive to provide the service?

Maybe I'm over simplifying things.

This is timely....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67772757

Annual energy bills for a typical household are expected to fall by £268 in April, a new forecast suggests.
"The recent stabilisation of international energy markets has trickled down to April's price cap predictions, raising hopes that this downward path will continue throughout the remainder of 2024," he said.

[Nitro182]

Scabutz said:

Ham_and_Jam said:

Scabutz said:

I'm a bit mystified by a couple of things.

1. The wholesale price of energy has been on a downward trend for a while. I know seasonal demand increases prices buy why is the cap going up again if the main trend is down.

2. Why does the standing charge keep going up? Is it progressively getting more and more expensive to provide the service?

Maybe I'm over simplifying things.

Moreover, why the fk are energy companies making obscene profits.

British Gas posted £939m in the last operating year, and yet we’re told how to scrimp and save and look after every penny when it comes to our energy bills.

I got a email telling me to heat the person not the house if I was struggling, whilst they made record profits from this crisis.


While i agree that companies should pay a windfall tax i also have to say that most energy businesses were barely scraping through for years prior to the Ukraine War , check out Centrica's share price , it was forever falling for years due to super cheap gas provided by the Russians. People werent moaning then when gas and electric were pennies.................. I have shares in Harbour Energy and they have been penalized massively and are paying a 75% tax on all profits even though oil and gas prices are pretty much average ! Look at the size of the financing it takes to run an upstream company , exploration and hardware costs billions !

I wouldnt blame the oil and gas companies , id blame the government , they are the ones milking it !!

fking obscene and can’t believe there hasn’t been a bigger outcry.

I could be wrong but I think the mega profits come from the oil and gas extraction and selling it.

The little providers like Octopus etc aren't making bns

Should be a bigger windfall tax on those big people though as they are doing what they always did and just making more because the price is higher

[Nitro182]

While i agree that companies should pay a windfall tax i also have to say that most energy businesses were barely scraping through for years prior to the Ukraine War , check out Centrica's share price , it was forever falling for years due to super cheap gas provided by the Russians. People werent moaning then when gas and electric were pennies.................. I have shares in Harbour Energy and they have been penalized massively and are paying a 75% tax on all profits even though oil and gas prices are pretty much average ! Look at the size of the financing it takes to run an upstream company , exploration and hardware costs billions !

I wouldnt blame the oil and gas companies , id blame the government , they are the ones milking it !!

"my post messed up so posted again"

[Nitro182]

also the only reason why Centrica are making obscene profits , its because they took on a massive market share when the smaller companies went bust , thankfully they were able to do that otherwise the whole country would of been even more screwed. Id say the energy system is very fair here in the UK (remember when every household was gifted money to help towards bill , this was from the windfall taxes) , if it wasnt for the North Sea industry we would of not had that !

[colin79666]

If you don’t like the price cap/regulated prices then there is always Octopus Agile or Tracker. The risk of price spikes shifts to you but so does benefiting when the wholesale price is low. I’m paying 12.8p per kWh of electricity today

Edited by colin79666 on Thursday 21st December 08:23

[Blue Oval84]

I think my average across today is 11p/kWh on Agile, around the evening peak it will reach 35p/kWh, but overnight it was negative pricing.

Across my last bill the total average came in at about 23p/kWh, so still usefully below the price cap. Having a relatively constant and chunky baseload means that Agile works out quite well for me.

[Cupid-stunt]

Ham_and_Jam said:

Moreover, why the fk are energy companies making obscene profits.

British Gas posted £939m in the last operating year, and yet we’re told how to scrimp and save and look after every penny when it comes to our energy bills.

I got a email telling me to heat the person not the house if I was struggling, whilst they made record profits from this crisis.

fking obscene and can’t believe there hasn’t been a bigger outcry.

And when they had to write off bilions should the government help out?
It's a very assymetric position that you call for....

[ashleyman]

Weirdly enough I used 199 kWh of electricity between 28/11/2022 - 27/12/2022 and I also used 199KWh between the same period in 2023.

I think it would have actually been less this year had we not had our bathroom redone which involved running a dehumidifier most evenings to dry the room out and also using a portable fan heater as builders love to keep doors and windows open.

Gas use for the same period was down by 488KWh versus last year.

[Mr Whippy]

Can anyone offer a TLDR on all this stuff?

Do you just stick with what you have, or is there merit in looking around/fixing now?

BG are telling me £2200/yr, or £2000 if I fix for a year, with £150 exit fees (£75 per energy source)... so arguably if I fix and then exit I'm £50 better off, before I even move to a lower rate.
But then that makes no sense to me... why would they let you fix AND save money, vs the capped prices?


This whole setup is a bloody mess. It's like a big game of gambling.



While searching for this thread I found one from 2004. People paying about £40pcm, or £500 a year. That has gone up 5x now!
5x in 20 years!
8.5% a year compounded interest. If only I'd managed to 5x my salary in that time.

Ah the modern age eh... progress. Technology. I do feel like we're actually treading backwards at a fair old rate. We'll be back in caves in 50 years.

[PF62]

Mr Whippy said:

Can anyone offer a TLDR on all this stuff?

Predictions are that prices are falling and the cap will drop by 14% or so in April, so fixing will result in you overpaying in the long term even if the fix was below the current capped rate.

Other than the standard variable tariffs that are subject to the price cap, then you could look at the tariffs offered by Octopus that track the underlying cost of the energy.

Their Tracker tariff changes the unit rate cost of electricity and gas every day based on the wholesale price plus a mark up, and can be substantially cheaper than the standard variable tariffs.

This tariff *does* require you to have smart electricity and gas meters and although you are not exposed to unlimited risk if the wholesale price shoots up, the unit rates have a cap that are a **lot** higher than the standard variable rate price cap - 100p/kWh for electricity and 30p/kWh for gas - the unit costs have never gone that high but they have very occasionally exceeded the standard variable rate price and there is obviously a risk they could go up rapidly if something unexpected hit the energy supply market.

So the TLDR is - assume the industry knowledge is correct and prices are falling so stick with the standard variable capped rate, or if you are prepared to take a gamble then look at the Octopus Tracker tariff.

[Crafty_]

Never mind what they are telling you, if you look over the last year, what is your actual usage ?

Octopus told me to pay £235 a month, they now advise I should pay £163 so don't rely on their estimates, use actual usage to predict your bills.