Energy price rises - what are you paying?
Discussion
RichB said:
Mr Whippy said:
Can anyone offer a TLDR on all this stuff? <clip>
What's a TLDR? 
I thought TL;DR meant 'Too Long Didn't Read' but that doesn't make sense...TL:DR followed by a brief summary right at the top
Then the main body of the thread with all the detail
Mr Whippy said:
Can anyone offer a TLDR on all this stuff?
Do you just stick with what you have, or is there merit in looking around/fixing now?
BG are telling me £2200/yr, or £2000 if I fix for a year, with £150 exit fees (£75 per energy source)... so arguably if I fix and then exit I'm £50 better off, before I even move to a lower rate.
But then that makes no sense to me... why would they let you fix AND save money, vs the capped prices?
This whole setup is a bloody mess. It's like a big game of gambling.
While searching for this thread I found one from 2004. People paying about £40pcm, or £500 a year. That has gone up 5x now!
5x in 20 years!
8.5% a year compounded interest. If only I'd managed to 5x my salary in that time.
Ah the modern age eh... progress. Technology. I do feel like we're actually treading backwards at a fair old rate. We'll be back in caves in 50 years.
I’m guessing the £2200 figure is based on right now.Do you just stick with what you have, or is there merit in looking around/fixing now?
BG are telling me £2200/yr, or £2000 if I fix for a year, with £150 exit fees (£75 per energy source)... so arguably if I fix and then exit I'm £50 better off, before I even move to a lower rate.
But then that makes no sense to me... why would they let you fix AND save money, vs the capped prices?
This whole setup is a bloody mess. It's like a big game of gambling.
While searching for this thread I found one from 2004. People paying about £40pcm, or £500 a year. That has gone up 5x now!
5x in 20 years!
8.5% a year compounded interest. If only I'd managed to 5x my salary in that time.
Ah the modern age eh... progress. Technology. I do feel like we're actually treading backwards at a fair old rate. We'll be back in caves in 50 years.
If they sent the same communication in april it would be £1800 or fix for £2000. Doesn’t sound as good, and why they would like you to fix now.
The whole thread is too long to now reliably catch up on, hence the kind request for a TLDR.
Yes looks like BG are just hedging on prices falling sufficiently to cover their apparent give-away vs the cap pricing.
Im not sure I’d risk the Octopus real-time pricing, it’d be a nightmare to audit it (when) they get it wrong.
Currently pay gas monthly DD (whole bill:actual), and leccy 1/4 DD (whole bill/actual) on smart meters.
I’d prefer leccy on monthly too but talking to BG is like spinning a roulette wheel on what they’ll do.
Just paying each month on DD for what you use is really handy imo, super easy to audit etc.
My electric is clearly pretty linear through the year, gas a lot more in winter, but the ‘balancing’ logic now for that fluctuation in gas seems utterly pointless.
I’m not sure why the default is guessed monthly balancing in the era of smart meters, except to dupe people out of too much money!
Yes looks like BG are just hedging on prices falling sufficiently to cover their apparent give-away vs the cap pricing.
Im not sure I’d risk the Octopus real-time pricing, it’d be a nightmare to audit it (when) they get it wrong.
Currently pay gas monthly DD (whole bill:actual), and leccy 1/4 DD (whole bill/actual) on smart meters.
I’d prefer leccy on monthly too but talking to BG is like spinning a roulette wheel on what they’ll do.
Just paying each month on DD for what you use is really handy imo, super easy to audit etc.
My electric is clearly pretty linear through the year, gas a lot more in winter, but the ‘balancing’ logic now for that fluctuation in gas seems utterly pointless.
I’m not sure why the default is guessed monthly balancing in the era of smart meters, except to dupe people out of too much money!
Mr Whippy said:
Im not sure I’d risk the Octopus real-time pricing, it’d be a nightmare to audit it (when) they get it wrong.
It isn't - a consumption figure for each day and the rate for that day, multiplied together and the cost for each day summed for a total.Not sure quite what there is to 'audit'.
PF62 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Im not sure I’d risk the Octopus real-time pricing, it’d be a nightmare to audit it (when) they get it wrong.
It isn't - a consumption figure for each day and the rate for that day, multiplied together and the cost for each day summed for a total.Not sure quite what there is to 'audit'.
You'd want to do your own calculation. For just a single month that's 30 calcs and look ups you'd need.
From an article I was reading the other day even smart meters aren't immune to getting things wrong for whatever reason.
Trying to untangle the monthly average DDs can be a nightmare/impossible fight with a supplier. Imagine having a dodgy smart meter and hundreds of units*unit costs to go back over, over several months, if you suspected/found a problem.
Fair play if you want all that extra hassle/risk... which I'd assume are broadly evens... as nothing comes free these days.
Personally I just like the monthly DD actual payments being as low as possible and so it seems like just staying on the variable running against the cap is still the best bet
OVO are stopping their 5% interest credit payment on accounts that are in credit due to changes in the way that they are permitted to set direct debits to avoid people acquiring huge credit balances.
Our credit balance based on last month's use stands at about two month's charges, though equal to around 3-4 months of direct debit. Their suggestion is that the direct debit be reduced to £5 per month and then be reassessed end of March, which really doesn't make much sense at the moment. Have reduced it significantly but not that far.
Our credit balance based on last month's use stands at about two month's charges, though equal to around 3-4 months of direct debit. Their suggestion is that the direct debit be reduced to £5 per month and then be reassessed end of March, which really doesn't make much sense at the moment. Have reduced it significantly but not that far.
Mr Whippy said:
PF62 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Im not sure I’d risk the Octopus real-time pricing, it’d be a nightmare to audit it (when) they get it wrong.
It isn't - a consumption figure for each day and the rate for that day, multiplied together and the cost for each day summed for a total.Not sure quite what there is to 'audit'.
You'd want to do your own calculation. For just a single month that's 30 calcs and look ups you'd need.
From an article I was reading the other day even smart meters aren't immune to getting things wrong for whatever reason.
Trying to untangle the monthly average DDs can be a nightmare/impossible fight with a supplier. Imagine having a dodgy smart meter and hundreds of units*unit costs to go back over, over several months, if you suspected/found a problem.
Fair play if you want all that extra hassle/risk... which I'd assume are broadly evens... as nothing comes free these days.
Personally I just like the monthly DD actual payments being as low as possible and so it seems like just staying on the variable running against the cap is still the best bet
That said I've never known a smart meter to send wrong readings, they either send HH usage figures or they don't. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a case where it sends the wrong readings. And believe me, legacy meters are not immune to problems, especially if they get mixed up between accounts (new build estates etc) - the problems can take years to resolve.
On Agile I've consistently paid around 20-30% less than the price cap since joining last year, my December average bill was 16.8p/kWh versus price cap average of 28p/kWh.
I've not got any special kit like batteries or solar either. I literally just avoid putting on the washer/dryer and the dishwasher during peak rate (4pm to 7pm) and the rest of the savings happen naturally for me.
Blue Oval84 said:
The Octopus Agile tariff (if that's the one you mean) relies on the meter sending Half Hourly meter readings each day, so 48 prices per day. On the bill it's all laid out quite clearly and easy enough to cast your eye over. I'd argue discrepencies are even easier to spot than a normal tariff as they literally draw a graph for each day's usage, so it would be easy to spot something like a load of usage when you were on holiday or something.
That said I've never known a smart meter to send wrong readings, they either send HH usage figures or they don't. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a case where it sends the wrong readings. And believe me, legacy meters are not immune to problems, especially if they get mixed up between accounts (new build estates etc) - the problems can take years to resolve.
On Agile I've consistently paid around 20-30% less than the price cap since joining last year, my December average bill was 16.8p/kWh versus price cap average of 28p/kWh.
I've not got any special kit like batteries or solar either. I literally just avoid putting on the washer/dryer and the dishwasher during peak rate (4pm to 7pm) and the rest of the savings happen naturally for me.
Sounds interesting… I might take a good look at that given the possible savings! Thanks.That said I've never known a smart meter to send wrong readings, they either send HH usage figures or they don't. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a case where it sends the wrong readings. And believe me, legacy meters are not immune to problems, especially if they get mixed up between accounts (new build estates etc) - the problems can take years to resolve.
On Agile I've consistently paid around 20-30% less than the price cap since joining last year, my December average bill was 16.8p/kWh versus price cap average of 28p/kWh.
I've not got any special kit like batteries or solar either. I literally just avoid putting on the washer/dryer and the dishwasher during peak rate (4pm to 7pm) and the rest of the savings happen naturally for me.
Just need to hope the Middle East doesn’t all go to crap as I guess prices will go way above the cap if so?!
PS, no idea on smart meter issues, just read a guardian article the other day on bill issues and ofgem etc.
Given what you’ve said about daily logging/breakdown, then yes if you’re actively looking it’s likely you’ll spot issues before they cause big problems.
Mr Whippy said:
PF62 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Im not sure I’d risk the Octopus real-time pricing, it’d be a nightmare to audit it (when) they get it wrong.
It isn't - a consumption figure for each day and the rate for that day, multiplied together and the cost for each day summed for a total.Not sure quite what there is to 'audit'.
You'd want to do your own calculation. For just a single month that's 30 calcs and look ups you'd need.
Total unit cost charged divided by closing read minus opening read = average daily unit rate. The rate doesn't wildly change day by day, so that will give you a quick sense check - and actually they provide that already done on the bill for you.
Mr Whippy said:
From an article I was reading the other day even smart meters aren't immune to getting things wrong for whatever reason.
Telegraph/Mail with their 'anti-smart meter / EV / whatever' rants?Mr Whippy said:
Trying to untangle the monthly average DDs can be a nightmare/impossible fight with a supplier. Imagine having a dodgy smart meter and hundreds of units*unit costs to go back over, over several months, if you suspected/found a problem.
Not really, and if you are that worried just look at their app and it will give you the amount and cost of energy used daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly.And if you did want to do the calculations you can just download the smart meter data as a CSV to do it yourself.
Mr Whippy said:
Fair play if you want all that extra hassle/risk... which I'd assume are broadly evens... as nothing comes free these days.
Well the price you are paying for that lack of perceived hassle - perceived because it doesn't actually exist - is around a 30% to 50% premium. If you are happy with that...Mr Whippy said:
Personally I just like the monthly DD actual payments being as low as possible and so it seems like just staying on the variable running against the cap is still the best bet
Yes, but my DD payments are lower than yours because the unit costs are cheaper for me!PF62 said:
Mr Whippy said:
PF62 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Im not sure I’d risk the Octopus real-time pricing, it’d be a nightmare to audit it (when) they get it wrong.
It isn't - a consumption figure for each day and the rate for that day, multiplied together and the cost for each day summed for a total.Not sure quite what there is to 'audit'.
You'd want to do your own calculation. For just a single month that's 30 calcs and look ups you'd need.
Total unit cost charged divided by closing read minus opening read = average daily unit rate. The rate doesn't wildly change day by day, so that will give you a quick sense check - and actually they provide that already done on the bill for you.
Mr Whippy said:
From an article I was reading the other day even smart meters aren't immune to getting things wrong for whatever reason.
Telegraph/Mail with their 'anti-smart meter / EV / whatever' rants?Mr Whippy said:
Trying to untangle the monthly average DDs can be a nightmare/impossible fight with a supplier. Imagine having a dodgy smart meter and hundreds of units*unit costs to go back over, over several months, if you suspected/found a problem.
Not really, and if you are that worried just look at their app and it will give you the amount and cost of energy used daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly.And if you did want to do the calculations you can just download the smart meter data as a CSV to do it yourself.
Mr Whippy said:
Fair play if you want all that extra hassle/risk... which I'd assume are broadly evens... as nothing comes free these days.
Well the price you are paying for that lack of perceived hassle - perceived because it doesn't actually exist - is around a 30% to 50% premium. If you are happy with that...Mr Whippy said:
Personally I just like the monthly DD actual payments being as low as possible and so it seems like just staying on the variable running against the cap is still the best bet
Yes, but my DD payments are lower than yours because the unit costs are cheaper for me!Wrt calculating stuff, yes easier said than done.
I’m pretty sure I’m correct in saying a single calc and fixed price/units usage is easier to keep track of vs fine grained intra-day usage and costing but fair enough.
Clearly you’ve got some stress issues over all this and I’ve “set you off”
Sorry, I was simply looking for advice on what’s best to do.
Mr Whippy said:
Clearly you’ve got some stress issues over all this and I’ve “set you off”
Not at all.It is just when someone asks a question but then comes up with a whole bunch of non-existent issues or 'it is too hard' excuses...
Mr Whippy said:
Sorry, I was simply looking for advice on what’s best to do.
And that was pay the standard variable rate or pay 1/3 to 1/2 less on a tariff that follows the market.Well the issues are existent.
I’ve ‘technically’ still got a £380 iou to avro… and despite being shifted to Octopus and being in the clear when moving home, and having moved on for a few months in another house, Octopus suddenly said I owe them £380, passing through the avro bill, but being unable to dispute it as it was a real mess of averages and estimated readings and tarrif swaps.
Then BG at my current place took almost a year to sort out billing as they were making up estimates over almost but not quite 2 months iirc, then applying it to a 1 month period, voila, double the cost.
Then they said I had no smart meter, then they did, then they didn’t. Or electric was, gas wasn’t, estimating readings for both despite one being smart, etc.
So the idea of giving a supplier that much free reign isn’t ideal if you believe that some of those risks may be borne (ie, meter readings out/wrong, estimated badly etc)
So when I say hard to audit, I mean going over a years worth of avros s
tty pdfs, which eventually weren’t even available as their site went down, in some cases I’m sure done were revised vs ones I’d downloaded etc… then that’s the st storm I’m wanting to avoid.
Which is why a month to month DD full payment on the cap seems very appealing as no one is trying to, or easily can, fk me over because some muppet somewhere pressed the wrong buttons on their computer.
But yes on the costs, seems worth the savings, doing the bit if extra monitoring/DD to assure it runs smoothly.
You could sink 50pc of the saving vs capped tariff into an account just in case shtf on prices.
I’ll take a look on that basis
I’ve ‘technically’ still got a £380 iou to avro… and despite being shifted to Octopus and being in the clear when moving home, and having moved on for a few months in another house, Octopus suddenly said I owe them £380, passing through the avro bill, but being unable to dispute it as it was a real mess of averages and estimated readings and tarrif swaps.
Then BG at my current place took almost a year to sort out billing as they were making up estimates over almost but not quite 2 months iirc, then applying it to a 1 month period, voila, double the cost.
Then they said I had no smart meter, then they did, then they didn’t. Or electric was, gas wasn’t, estimating readings for both despite one being smart, etc.
So the idea of giving a supplier that much free reign isn’t ideal if you believe that some of those risks may be borne (ie, meter readings out/wrong, estimated badly etc)
So when I say hard to audit, I mean going over a years worth of avros s
tty pdfs, which eventually weren’t even available as their site went down, in some cases I’m sure done were revised vs ones I’d downloaded etc… then that’s the st storm I’m wanting to avoid.Which is why a month to month DD full payment on the cap seems very appealing as no one is trying to, or easily can, f
k me over because some muppet somewhere pressed the wrong buttons on their computer.But yes on the costs, seems worth the savings, doing the bit if extra monitoring/DD to assure it runs smoothly.
You could sink 50pc of the saving vs capped tariff into an account just in case shtf on prices.
I’ll take a look on that basis
Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 2nd February 21:19
Mr Whippy said:
But yes on the costs, seems worth the savings, doing the bit if extra monitoring/DD to assure it runs smoothly.
You could sink 50pc of the saving vs capped tariff into an account just in case shtf on prices.
That's my view, but in addition you are not locked into the tracker tariff and can move out and back onto the standard variable capped tariff whenever you want if you think prices are going significantly the wrong way.You could sink 50pc of the saving vs capped tariff into an account just in case shtf on prices.
However they don't want people 'dipping in and dipping out' so if you do leave the tracker tariff then you can't come back to it for 9 months.
Mr Whippy said:
I’ll take a look on that basis
Sounds a good idea, and there are apps that will use your smart meter data to do a comparison between tariffs to show what any saving might have been.FiF said:
PF62 said:
Sounds a good idea, and there are apps that will use your smart meter data to do a comparison between tariffs to show what any saving might have been.
Any suggestion as to a recommended app. Yes being lazy, sorry. Otherwise will do some research when got more time.Thanks for the last few days' posts, folks - it has encouraged me to get off my arse (well, actaully, sit down on my arse) and check Tracker prices vs capped... looks like the tracker prices have only just touched the capped rates a couple of times around here in the last year. We use a fair bit of electric and it's fairly constant across the year, so pretty much a no brainer.
Tracker application in
Now, I'm not going to be checking unit prices every day, or even every week - it's enough to know it's most likely cheaper; money's not that tight... I'm just going to rely on this thread and the Octopus one to wave any major red flags going forwards, so please don't let me down!
Tracker application in
Now, I'm not going to be checking unit prices every day, or even every week - it's enough to know it's most likely cheaper; money's not that tight... I'm just going to rely on this thread and the Octopus one to wave any major red flags going forwards, so please don't let me down!
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