Boiler/piping woes
Discussion
Evoluzione said:
Let's start with the basics.
Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Hi. Prv pipe which runs outside has not emptied anything throughout this process sadly. Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 24th February 15:16
Evoluzione said:
Mopey said:
Evoluzione said:
Let's start with the basics.
Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Hi. Prv pipe which runs outside has not emptied anything throughout this process sadly. Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 24th February 15:16
I’ve had a bucket under it and nothing has come out that way.
ghamer said:
It's a shame you run the boiler before opening the valves the whole point of the exercise is to establish whether the leak is on the boiler or the rads.The pressure drop with boiler on was prob just negative pressure from the pump.Do it again,pressure everything to 2 bar isolate both valves on boiler.Return in the morning and check pressure.If hardly moved open the valves DO NOT run boiler at this point.If pressure then drops you will know where the problem lies.
Okay will do that tonight Thankyou. If when I open them up it drops it’s the pipes somewhere then!!!
Good job we have the wood burner!
Before opening up the valves- Barely any movement.
As soon as I opened up the valves (boiler is still off)
So it’s a leak in the pipe work somewhere. It dropped even further when switched on.
Can’t see anything leak wise. This is going to be painful.
As soon as I opened up the valves (boiler is still off)
So it’s a leak in the pipe work somewhere. It dropped even further when switched on.
Can’t see anything leak wise. This is going to be painful.
Edited by Mopey on Thursday 25th February 08:46
Lincsls1 said:
Ok. So it seems you have managed to establish you have a leak on the system as apposed to the boiler. Good.
It is clearly not a big leak. Make sure you go over every inch of visible pipework, check the radiators REALLY well.
The radiators can have a small leak from themselves, but more often have weeps around the valves unions, or even the bleed pieces and opposite side blank. Look for rusty stain marks.
Sometimes thermostatic valves leak from the pin under the plastic valve head, this makes it hard to see. Sometimes the lockshield valve at the other side can leak under the plastic decorative cap.
It only takes a small weep or two and you'll be topping the pressure regularly. 9/10 times the leak/s will be from a radiator/valve/union and just not seen.
If you get to the stage where you're 100% certain all visible pipework/radiators and valves are sound, you could try added some (decent) central heating leak sealer. This will probably sort the issue and will be long lasting.
I can't pretend its as good as finding the leak 'properly' and fixing it mechanically as it were, but its there to be used if needed and may save you a world of pain.
Some say it can clog up stuff, its designed not. Opinions, opinions. If it meant not tearing the house a part, I'd use it without concern.
Yeah I expected to see evidence of the leak though. If I am refilling the boiler twice a day that’s a heck of a lot of water that’s going somewhere? I’d have thought it would be running down walls or soaking floors to be honest. It is clearly not a big leak. Make sure you go over every inch of visible pipework, check the radiators REALLY well.
The radiators can have a small leak from themselves, but more often have weeps around the valves unions, or even the bleed pieces and opposite side blank. Look for rusty stain marks.
Sometimes thermostatic valves leak from the pin under the plastic valve head, this makes it hard to see. Sometimes the lockshield valve at the other side can leak under the plastic decorative cap.
It only takes a small weep or two and you'll be topping the pressure regularly. 9/10 times the leak/s will be from a radiator/valve/union and just not seen.
If you get to the stage where you're 100% certain all visible pipework/radiators and valves are sound, you could try added some (decent) central heating leak sealer. This will probably sort the issue and will be long lasting.
I can't pretend its as good as finding the leak 'properly' and fixing it mechanically as it were, but its there to be used if needed and may save you a world of pain.
Some say it can clog up stuff, its designed not. Opinions, opinions. If it meant not tearing the house a part, I'd use it without concern.
I’m going to check every inch of visible pipe work tomorrow.
These things you can put in- do you have a particular recommendation? And how easy is it to do as it’s a closed system?
Lincsls1 said:
If you have a few small weeps, you're likely to be having to fill it like you are. Often though, the amount of water you're putting back in 'sounds' a lot more than it really is.
If the leak was under the floors from upstairs I'd expect to see it on a ceiling at some point. If its under the ground floor, you'd never know.
Like I said, thoroughly check the radiators/valves/unions. This is generally where the leaks are.
As for the leak sealer, it is easy enough to add. Best through a radiator, ideally a ladder towel rail. Isolate and drain radiator, remove top blank piece, open opposite side bleed, pour leak sealer into radiator. Refit blank, close bleed, open valves, bleed rad till air gone, top boiler up, run heating to circulate. Allow a couple of days for effect and expect to top up once or twice again. Cross fingers!
It does work though I assure you, assuming it isn't a severe breach or another problem.
I am suggesting this solely based on the boiler being eliminated though.
The other most common pressure problem is the boiler expansion vessel being flat or too small for size of house causing PRV to blow outside.
Thankyou though got to be honest here this is beyond me and my ability when it comes to radiators and plumbing- I’m not the best at DIY was pleased with the help of this thread to have isolated the boiler and identified it’s in the system. If the leak was under the floors from upstairs I'd expect to see it on a ceiling at some point. If its under the ground floor, you'd never know.
Like I said, thoroughly check the radiators/valves/unions. This is generally where the leaks are.
As for the leak sealer, it is easy enough to add. Best through a radiator, ideally a ladder towel rail. Isolate and drain radiator, remove top blank piece, open opposite side bleed, pour leak sealer into radiator. Refit blank, close bleed, open valves, bleed rad till air gone, top boiler up, run heating to circulate. Allow a couple of days for effect and expect to top up once or twice again. Cross fingers!
It does work though I assure you, assuming it isn't a severe breach or another problem.
I am suggesting this solely based on the boiler being eliminated though.
The other most common pressure problem is the boiler expansion vessel being flat or too small for size of house causing PRV to blow outside.
As I say I will check and double check all of the valves and areas that we could have a leak. It’s been 9 days of refilling the boiler daily if not twice a day- surely it’s a matter of time till we see evidence but I would rather intercept it before a disaster!
ro250 said:
Have you kept the bag over the outside drain pipe and kept this under monitoring? I does sound like you've eliminated the boiler but when the valves are closed wouldn't there still be some water in the boiler area which may be leaving through the condensate overnight?
We had a similar situation recently and it turned out to be the heat exchanger. It wasn't the first thing our plumber checked as the boiler is only a couple of years old. I too, was thinking where's the water going as was topping up daily. Luckily fixed under warranty.
This was the result I was hoping for but evidence seems to suggest this is not the case. I still have the bag on the end of the pipe just in case. We had a similar situation recently and it turned out to be the heat exchanger. It wasn't the first thing our plumber checked as the boiler is only a couple of years old. I too, was thinking where's the water going as was topping up daily. Luckily fixed under warranty.
Lincsls1 said:
Hi Mopey, important question.
On Wednesday when your filled the boiler up to 2bar and then isolated the boiler, was the entire system AND boiler stone cold?
If you had been using the heating before you did this then you won't have got an accurate result when you open the isolation valves the following morning. This is because the pressure drop you noted could simply have been the contraction of the water as it cooled in the radiators!
If you did it all stone cold, then ignore me, otherwise you need to repeat Wednesdays test ensuring you turn the boiler totally off say 1hr before setting it to 2bar and then isolate. The next day immediately open the valves and note any drop again.
I'm saying all this because as others have said it could still be an internal leak within the main heat exchanger.
Putting a bag over the condensate pipe with the boiler off and cold will prove if it isn't leaking internally WHEN cold.
Trouble is, the leak may occur only when the boiler is running, heat expands metal and it might be this is when it weeps through to the condensate circuit. You'd struggle to tell because when the boiler is running it creates condensate water anyway and any leak will just add to it and drain away.
Hope I'm not confusing matters.
Hi Lincs. I realised this so tried again last night but from about 5pm so heating was stone cold till this morning when I went to check the boiler and put the valves on. It had hardly moved so I’m fairly sure sadly it’s a leak on the system somewhere! Boiler would have been my preference. On Wednesday when your filled the boiler up to 2bar and then isolated the boiler, was the entire system AND boiler stone cold?
If you had been using the heating before you did this then you won't have got an accurate result when you open the isolation valves the following morning. This is because the pressure drop you noted could simply have been the contraction of the water as it cooled in the radiators!
If you did it all stone cold, then ignore me, otherwise you need to repeat Wednesdays test ensuring you turn the boiler totally off say 1hr before setting it to 2bar and then isolate. The next day immediately open the valves and note any drop again.
I'm saying all this because as others have said it could still be an internal leak within the main heat exchanger.
Putting a bag over the condensate pipe with the boiler off and cold will prove if it isn't leaking internally WHEN cold.
Trouble is, the leak may occur only when the boiler is running, heat expands metal and it might be this is when it weeps through to the condensate circuit. You'd struggle to tell because when the boiler is running it creates condensate water anyway and any leak will just add to it and drain away.
Hope I'm not confusing matters.
Hey guys quick question. Heating is on after a refill- quick question how much should be coming out of the condensate pipe.
See attached picture it’s up to my finger on the picture. Have just left the bag on from opening the valves this morning.
It’s a fair amount of water??
After googling looks like it’s normal... ah man.
See attached picture it’s up to my finger on the picture. Have just left the bag on from opening the valves this morning.
It’s a fair amount of water??
After googling looks like it’s normal... ah man.
Edited by Mopey on Friday 26th February 17:06
Leak detection company found our culprit they pumped gas through the system and we got a hit—-in the loft.
There is now a little damage on the ceiling below but hardly anything, could have been far worse. think it was escaping in part down a shaft by the chimney seems there’s a bit of a hole there.
So getting some of the bits replaced as it’s a bit of a bodge apparently.
So taken a hit on the excess and paying for the repair but at least we have found our leak.
Thankyou to everyone for all your advice and help- a redeeming quality of Pistonheads. Some great community support.
There is now a little damage on the ceiling below but hardly anything, could have been far worse. think it was escaping in part down a shaft by the chimney seems there’s a bit of a hole there.
So getting some of the bits replaced as it’s a bit of a bodge apparently.
So taken a hit on the excess and paying for the repair but at least we have found our leak.
Thankyou to everyone for all your advice and help- a redeeming quality of Pistonheads. Some great community support.
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