Boiler/piping woes
Discussion
Let's start with the basics.
Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 24th February 15:16
Evoluzione said:
Let's start with the basics.
Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Hi. Prv pipe which runs outside has not emptied anything throughout this process sadly. Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 24th February 15:16
Mopey said:
Evoluzione said:
Let's start with the basics.
Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Hi. Prv pipe which runs outside has not emptied anything throughout this process sadly. Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 24th February 15:16
Evoluzione said:
Mopey said:
Evoluzione said:
Let's start with the basics.
Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Hi. Prv pipe which runs outside has not emptied anything throughout this process sadly. Look under the boiler for the pressure relief valve:
https://www.google.com/search?q=baxi+pressure+reli...
I think it's on the right hand side. Follow the pipe away from the boiler and tell us where it goes, where it exits from.
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 24th February 15:16
I’ve had a bucket under it and nothing has come out that way.
It's a shame you run the boiler before opening the valves the whole point of the exercise is to establish whether the leak is on the boiler or the rads.The pressure drop with boiler on was prob just negative pressure from the pump.Do it again,pressure everything to 2 bar isolate both valves on boiler.Return in the morning and check pressure.If hardly moved open the valves DO NOT run boiler at this point.If pressure then drops you will know where the problem lies.
ghamer said:
It's a shame you run the boiler before opening the valves the whole point of the exercise is to establish whether the leak is on the boiler or the rads.The pressure drop with boiler on was prob just negative pressure from the pump.Do it again,pressure everything to 2 bar isolate both valves on boiler.Return in the morning and check pressure.If hardly moved open the valves DO NOT run boiler at this point.If pressure then drops you will know where the problem lies.
Okay will do that tonight Thankyou. If when I open them up it drops it’s the pipes somewhere then!!!
Good job we have the wood burner!
Before opening up the valves- Barely any movement.
As soon as I opened up the valves (boiler is still off)
So it’s a leak in the pipe work somewhere. It dropped even further when switched on.
Can’t see anything leak wise. This is going to be painful.
As soon as I opened up the valves (boiler is still off)
So it’s a leak in the pipe work somewhere. It dropped even further when switched on.
Can’t see anything leak wise. This is going to be painful.
Edited by Mopey on Thursday 25th February 08:46
Ok. So it seems you have managed to establish you have a leak on the system as apposed to the boiler. Good.
It is clearly not a big leak. Make sure you go over every inch of visible pipework, check the radiators REALLY well.
The radiators can have a small leak from themselves, but more often have weeps around the valves unions, or even the bleed pieces and opposite side blank. Look for rusty stain marks.
Sometimes thermostatic valves leak from the pin under the plastic valve head, this makes it hard to see. Sometimes the lockshield valve at the other side can leak under the plastic decorative cap.
It only takes a small weep or two and you'll be topping the pressure regularly. 9/10 times the leak/s will be from a radiator/valve/union and just not seen.
If you get to the stage where you're 100% certain all visible pipework/radiators and valves are sound, you could try added some (decent) central heating leak sealer. This will probably sort the issue and will be long lasting.
I can't pretend its as good as finding the leak 'properly' and fixing it mechanically as it were, but its there to be used if needed and may save you a world of pain.
Some say it can clog up stuff, its designed not. Opinions, opinions. If it meant not tearing the house a part, I'd use it without concern.
It is clearly not a big leak. Make sure you go over every inch of visible pipework, check the radiators REALLY well.
The radiators can have a small leak from themselves, but more often have weeps around the valves unions, or even the bleed pieces and opposite side blank. Look for rusty stain marks.
Sometimes thermostatic valves leak from the pin under the plastic valve head, this makes it hard to see. Sometimes the lockshield valve at the other side can leak under the plastic decorative cap.
It only takes a small weep or two and you'll be topping the pressure regularly. 9/10 times the leak/s will be from a radiator/valve/union and just not seen.
If you get to the stage where you're 100% certain all visible pipework/radiators and valves are sound, you could try added some (decent) central heating leak sealer. This will probably sort the issue and will be long lasting.
I can't pretend its as good as finding the leak 'properly' and fixing it mechanically as it were, but its there to be used if needed and may save you a world of pain.
Some say it can clog up stuff, its designed not. Opinions, opinions. If it meant not tearing the house a part, I'd use it without concern.
One other point, with these Baxi's, the pressure gauge suffers from what I call 'pump flick'.
This is not a problem, but it can confuse people.
Set the boiler to say 1.5 cold with it off. Turn the boiler on with a demand, and the gauge immediately reads significantly different. It is the pump either pushing or pulling, creating a false reading. Turn boiler to off, gauge immediately returns to 1.5.
IIRC on the these Baxi's, it pulls on the gauge showing a lower pressure. My point being it hasn't just suddenly lost a load of water!
I think this example happened in your pictures on page 2, effect being more obvious with the isolation valves closed.
This is not a problem, but it can confuse people.
Set the boiler to say 1.5 cold with it off. Turn the boiler on with a demand, and the gauge immediately reads significantly different. It is the pump either pushing or pulling, creating a false reading. Turn boiler to off, gauge immediately returns to 1.5.
IIRC on the these Baxi's, it pulls on the gauge showing a lower pressure. My point being it hasn't just suddenly lost a load of water!
I think this example happened in your pictures on page 2, effect being more obvious with the isolation valves closed.
Lincsls1 said:
Ok. So it seems you have managed to establish you have a leak on the system as apposed to the boiler. Good.
It is clearly not a big leak. Make sure you go over every inch of visible pipework, check the radiators REALLY well.
The radiators can have a small leak from themselves, but more often have weeps around the valves unions, or even the bleed pieces and opposite side blank. Look for rusty stain marks.
Sometimes thermostatic valves leak from the pin under the plastic valve head, this makes it hard to see. Sometimes the lockshield valve at the other side can leak under the plastic decorative cap.
It only takes a small weep or two and you'll be topping the pressure regularly. 9/10 times the leak/s will be from a radiator/valve/union and just not seen.
If you get to the stage where you're 100% certain all visible pipework/radiators and valves are sound, you could try added some (decent) central heating leak sealer. This will probably sort the issue and will be long lasting.
I can't pretend its as good as finding the leak 'properly' and fixing it mechanically as it were, but its there to be used if needed and may save you a world of pain.
Some say it can clog up stuff, its designed not. Opinions, opinions. If it meant not tearing the house a part, I'd use it without concern.
Yeah I expected to see evidence of the leak though. If I am refilling the boiler twice a day that’s a heck of a lot of water that’s going somewhere? I’d have thought it would be running down walls or soaking floors to be honest. It is clearly not a big leak. Make sure you go over every inch of visible pipework, check the radiators REALLY well.
The radiators can have a small leak from themselves, but more often have weeps around the valves unions, or even the bleed pieces and opposite side blank. Look for rusty stain marks.
Sometimes thermostatic valves leak from the pin under the plastic valve head, this makes it hard to see. Sometimes the lockshield valve at the other side can leak under the plastic decorative cap.
It only takes a small weep or two and you'll be topping the pressure regularly. 9/10 times the leak/s will be from a radiator/valve/union and just not seen.
If you get to the stage where you're 100% certain all visible pipework/radiators and valves are sound, you could try added some (decent) central heating leak sealer. This will probably sort the issue and will be long lasting.
I can't pretend its as good as finding the leak 'properly' and fixing it mechanically as it were, but its there to be used if needed and may save you a world of pain.
Some say it can clog up stuff, its designed not. Opinions, opinions. If it meant not tearing the house a part, I'd use it without concern.
I’m going to check every inch of visible pipe work tomorrow.
These things you can put in- do you have a particular recommendation? And how easy is it to do as it’s a closed system?
If you have a few small weeps, you're likely to be having to fill it like you are. Often though, the amount of water you're putting back in 'sounds' a lot more than it really is.
If the leak was under the floors from upstairs I'd expect to see it on a ceiling at some point. If its under the ground floor, you'd never know.
Like I said, thoroughly check the radiators/valves/unions. This is generally where the leaks are.
As for the leak sealer, it is easy enough to add. Best through a radiator, ideally a ladder towel rail. Isolate and drain radiator, remove top blank piece, open opposite side bleed, pour leak sealer into radiator. Refit blank, close bleed, open valves, bleed rad till air gone, top boiler up, run heating to circulate. Allow a couple of days for effect and expect to top up once or twice again. Cross fingers!
It does work though I assure you, assuming it isn't a severe breach or another problem.
I am suggesting this solely based on the boiler being eliminated though.
The other most common pressure problem is the boiler expansion vessel being flat or too small for size of house causing PRV to blow outside.
If the leak was under the floors from upstairs I'd expect to see it on a ceiling at some point. If its under the ground floor, you'd never know.
Like I said, thoroughly check the radiators/valves/unions. This is generally where the leaks are.
As for the leak sealer, it is easy enough to add. Best through a radiator, ideally a ladder towel rail. Isolate and drain radiator, remove top blank piece, open opposite side bleed, pour leak sealer into radiator. Refit blank, close bleed, open valves, bleed rad till air gone, top boiler up, run heating to circulate. Allow a couple of days for effect and expect to top up once or twice again. Cross fingers!
It does work though I assure you, assuming it isn't a severe breach or another problem.
I am suggesting this solely based on the boiler being eliminated though.
The other most common pressure problem is the boiler expansion vessel being flat or too small for size of house causing PRV to blow outside.
Have you kept the bag over the outside drain pipe and kept this under monitoring? I does sound like you've eliminated the boiler but when the valves are closed wouldn't there still be some water in the boiler area which may be leaving through the condensate overnight?
We had a similar situation recently and it turned out to be the heat exchanger. It wasn't the first thing our plumber checked as the boiler is only a couple of years old. I too, was thinking where's the water going as was topping up daily. Luckily fixed under warranty.
We had a similar situation recently and it turned out to be the heat exchanger. It wasn't the first thing our plumber checked as the boiler is only a couple of years old. I too, was thinking where's the water going as was topping up daily. Luckily fixed under warranty.
Looks like it’s on the system. The pressure drop when boiler runs is because of the pump turning and also a load of air will leave the boiler via the auto air vent.
I’d recommend disconnecting the PRV connection under the boiler and looking inside the valve for signs of damp, if possible. It’s not always obvious enough to fill a bag up tied on the end outside. Have seen this many times. It’s also possible your expansion vessel, although recharged, has now perforated and is filling up with water. Not to say this eliminates a leak on the system, but could be happing at the same time to make the system leak appear worse than it is.
Failing that and nothing visible after thoroughly checking above ground, it’s leaking under the floor somewhere.
I’d recommend disconnecting the PRV connection under the boiler and looking inside the valve for signs of damp, if possible. It’s not always obvious enough to fill a bag up tied on the end outside. Have seen this many times. It’s also possible your expansion vessel, although recharged, has now perforated and is filling up with water. Not to say this eliminates a leak on the system, but could be happing at the same time to make the system leak appear worse than it is.
Failing that and nothing visible after thoroughly checking above ground, it’s leaking under the floor somewhere.
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