Neighbour and retaining garden wall
Discussion
Looking at your plan, it appears that approximately a third of that wall is bordering your MIL’s property. So if we accept that it is a shared wall, then your MIL would be responsible for half of the portion of wall pertaining to her property - ie they could only expect her to pay 1/6 and not a third of the total cost.
If however you are satisfied that there is nothing dangerous about the wall, then simply tell them that you have no concerns re the wall and you will not be paying, but if they wish to upgrade it then they are quite welcome to do so.
If however you are satisfied that there is nothing dangerous about the wall, then simply tell them that you have no concerns re the wall and you will not be paying, but if they wish to upgrade it then they are quite welcome to do so.
Haven't read the full thread but one thing pops to mind...
If the boundary is a shared boundary and you do feel like contributing your contribution wouldn't necessarily be 1/3. E.g if the two bungalows shared an equal distance of boundary with the house your contribution would be half of a half, so 1/4 rather than 1/3.
EDIT: Nevermind reading the full thread, should have just read the last post. Doh!
If the boundary is a shared boundary and you do feel like contributing your contribution wouldn't necessarily be 1/3. E.g if the two bungalows shared an equal distance of boundary with the house your contribution would be half of a half, so 1/4 rather than 1/3.
EDIT: Nevermind reading the full thread, should have just read the last post. Doh!
pquinn said:
Really?? They can get the materials & equipment in via their own side access, which has the advantage of actually being at the right level.
Price seems steep too (to me at least) for a short wall little retaining wall, rebarred hollow block + concrete + a skin is hardly a complicated job.
And what are they proposing to do at the boundary of their little run of the wall? Just stop their shiny new bit? Unless there's a convenient joint at each fenceline (which I doubt) then they aren't exactly helping the rest of it stay upright.
The builder has suggested steel re-enforcement in the formPrice seems steep too (to me at least) for a short wall little retaining wall, rebarred hollow block + concrete + a skin is hardly a complicated job.
And what are they proposing to do at the boundary of their little run of the wall? Just stop their shiny new bit? Unless there's a convenient joint at each fenceline (which I doubt) then they aren't exactly helping the rest of it stay upright.
Of rods inserted and concrete infill. The main reason for access is they say pumping concrete all the way up the garden isn’t possible, it’s too far.
Price wise they did have other quotes that were more expensive, which We’ve not yet seen.
I think I foresee a chat over the garden wall (literally) myself with these people. Let them know my thoughts on them bullying an old lady out of what little money she might have left.
I'd start, as part of the chat, by asking to come round to their side to see the problem (with camera). Then politely & calmly saying that you've been brought in to see what's what as their current approach is stressing an old lady who hasn't got a pot to piss in......just setting the scene etc etc
And find out the true boundary ownership etc etc.
Even if I had a pot of money, I wouldn't be offering to meet their demands without really understanding the true lie of the land.....and possibly never at all unless they can prove it really is dangerous.....and then I'd only be paying for the basic reinforcing that was required, not some shiny & pretty thing.
And find out the true boundary ownership etc etc.
Even if I had a pot of money, I wouldn't be offering to meet their demands without really understanding the true lie of the land.....and possibly never at all unless they can prove it really is dangerous.....and then I'd only be paying for the basic reinforcing that was required, not some shiny & pretty thing.
eltax91 said:
01WE01 said:
Does this mean that same wall carries on off to the left of the bit in question, along the yellow line to behind the far left shed of the neigbour?
Yes. Sort of. Where red meets yellow, there’s a 45 degree angle and the wall ‘starts again’ of that makes sense?Therefore, I would expect, in the absence of anything saying otherwise, the bungalows own and are liable for them.
I think 10k is too expensive, but it is to a much higher standard - near double the height. You could offer to pay 1/3 of the cost of a replacement spec wall, which I think would be more like 2k (6k overall). This is obviously, if it needs doing. You could alternatively say you don't have the money, but if it is truely dangerous and may cause slippage etc. then they could report it to the council.
You may also run the risk that the neighbours who want the section replacing speak to their neighbours who also identify a need for the yellow bit of retaining wall being replaced...
eltax91 said:
One particular house changed owners about 2 years ago and soon after moving in, they ripped out a bunch of bushes at the bottom of their garden, which were along the boundary wall, covering it.
Going back to your 1st post & this bit.How big were the bushes?
Did they dig the roots out & so possibly undermine the wall, causing it tilt a bit if it has? If so & the wall does turn out to be your MiL's, throw it back at them that they now need to fix you MiL's wall at their expense! & thank them for raising the problem
Inspect the wall along the other properties to see if its the same or better to possibly show if they could have undermined it.
bristoltype603 said:
Pit Pony said:
You don't need a solicitor, you need 2 surveyors.
This. Get a Land Surveyor (i.e. boundary specialist).pquinn said:
Why make any effort at all? Leave it up to the other party to provide proper documentation
I agree, do nothing at all. Don't correspond with them and don't enter int any discussions. Let then mod all the work and pay for the experts.One you start contributing money, who's to say they won't suddenly need more money as they've come across a problem, need more materials etc.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Friday 5th March 15:00
Good advice on here so far, especially around getting the people who want the wall rebuilding to do all the research around liabilities.
If you do end up being responsible, make sure you build your fence on top of the new wall and grab yourself a couple more feet of land - they'll love that.
If you do end up being responsible, make sure you build your fence on top of the new wall and grab yourself a couple more feet of land - they'll love that.
The wall has probably been the same for many years, previously hidden by bushes.
Now they have uncovered the wall and thought it would look better if it was taller with nicer materials.
They probably realise that cosmetic upgrades are unlikely to be shared, so are using the fact it's not 100% straight as a reason for replacement being shared.
I can't get over the cheek to share the quote including the upgrades that go beyond like for like. If they were really smart they would have left those details off.
Also find it cheeky they are asking for the access. Paying 1/3 of the cost for a nicer and taller wall than was ever their before, without the upheaval and mess over their own access.
Really does open you MIL up to the full stretch as when neighbours see that nicer wall and get talking to learn that you MIL and others paid a share and accepted liability, they will all want a nicer wall for 1/3 of the cost.
As others have said, I'd be stating she don't have reserves for such upgrades where not deemed urgent/necessary. If they continue to push on the safety aspect, step in and inspect it/get a second opinion. Even say as she's a keyworker with limited time to focus on this, you will act on her behalf. They can try and bully you instead then and hopefully won't have too much ill feeling towards your MIL when they invariably fall out over it.
Now they have uncovered the wall and thought it would look better if it was taller with nicer materials.
They probably realise that cosmetic upgrades are unlikely to be shared, so are using the fact it's not 100% straight as a reason for replacement being shared.
I can't get over the cheek to share the quote including the upgrades that go beyond like for like. If they were really smart they would have left those details off.
Also find it cheeky they are asking for the access. Paying 1/3 of the cost for a nicer and taller wall than was ever their before, without the upheaval and mess over their own access.
Really does open you MIL up to the full stretch as when neighbours see that nicer wall and get talking to learn that you MIL and others paid a share and accepted liability, they will all want a nicer wall for 1/3 of the cost.
As others have said, I'd be stating she don't have reserves for such upgrades where not deemed urgent/necessary. If they continue to push on the safety aspect, step in and inspect it/get a second opinion. Even say as she's a keyworker with limited time to focus on this, you will act on her behalf. They can try and bully you instead then and hopefully won't have too much ill feeling towards your MIL when they invariably fall out over it.
Chipstick said:
I can't get over the cheek to share the quote including the upgrades that go beyond like for like. If they were really smart they would have left those details off.
I skimmed over that part; massive brass neck on this one.eltax91 said:
Remove existing ‘leaning’ wall
Dig new foundations
Build replacement wall from hollow blocks
Reinforce with steel rebar and infill with concrete
Backfill with 20mm gravel and install land drain
Build to 2ft higher than existing wall
Buold new decorative brick facade in front of concrete
Use decorative concrete cappings
£9950
Cheeky prick; if he wants it nice to look at and higher he can pay for it himself, none of that has anything to do with holding back gravity. The quote and the spec seem high for a fairly pedestrian retaining wall.Dig new foundations
Build replacement wall from hollow blocks
Reinforce with steel rebar and infill with concrete
Backfill with 20mm gravel and install land drain
Build to 2ft higher than existing wall
Buold new decorative brick facade in front of concrete
Use decorative concrete cappings
£9950
Thanks all. The plot thickens a little. I decided to spring the £6 to buy each of the land registry titles. Here's a snipped from theirs. With a suitable covenent?
I have them bang to right here don't i? If i am correct as i think i am, i shall be asking them tomorrow why, after purchasing in 2018 and for sure will have seen the plans, they decided to try and mug off two old ladies. I will also raise the subject of how much they'd like to pay us for access to rebuild this dangerous wall.
As a side note, further chat with morhter in law suggest they cut down 2 large oak trees as well as some bushes! So this certainly will have undermined the walls construction by removing the roots and of course leaving all that water no longer being sucked up by the trees.
I have them bang to right here don't i? If i am correct as i think i am, i shall be asking them tomorrow why, after purchasing in 2018 and for sure will have seen the plans, they decided to try and mug off two old ladies. I will also raise the subject of how much they'd like to pay us for access to rebuild this dangerous wall.
As a side note, further chat with morhter in law suggest they cut down 2 large oak trees as well as some bushes! So this certainly will have undermined the walls construction by removing the roots and of course leaving all that water no longer being sucked up by the trees.
If the wall has started to lean then there should be evidence of such in your MILs garden, along the line where the fence is, things like cracks in the soil, slumping of the ground etc, same with the other bungalow.
The wall was probably built in order to level out the plots for the bungalows originally, and as such is likely to be on the bungalows land, but its sole purpose is to retain the land, not look pretty, so as long as its doing that then that is where the conversation should stop. I imagine it was never the best looking, as access would have been required onto the neighbours land to do so, more than likely the brickie just lent over and did the best he could so I doubt it was perfectly vertical anyway.
Before any conversation goes beyond that then the other party firstly need to provide proof that they do not own or are responsible for the wall, they then need to provide an engineers report confirming movement, as mentioned previously this would need to be monitored over a period of time. with tell tales fitted to the wall to show any movement.
They are just chancing their arm, put all the above to them and then ignore until it is supplied. Block their number on her phone and tell them its harassment if they continue.
The wall was probably built in order to level out the plots for the bungalows originally, and as such is likely to be on the bungalows land, but its sole purpose is to retain the land, not look pretty, so as long as its doing that then that is where the conversation should stop. I imagine it was never the best looking, as access would have been required onto the neighbours land to do so, more than likely the brickie just lent over and did the best he could so I doubt it was perfectly vertical anyway.
Before any conversation goes beyond that then the other party firstly need to provide proof that they do not own or are responsible for the wall, they then need to provide an engineers report confirming movement, as mentioned previously this would need to be monitored over a period of time. with tell tales fitted to the wall to show any movement.
They are just chancing their arm, put all the above to them and then ignore until it is supplied. Block their number on her phone and tell them its harassment if they continue.
Edited by PAUL500 on Friday 5th March 18:03
That covenant will have been put in place when those houses were first built, and long before the bungalows and the retaining wall were installed I would imagine.
The mentioned fence will be long gone, probably replaced by the retaining wall and the fence on top of it when the bungalows came along
There will be no one to enforce it anyway. Worth rattling their cage though by mentioning its in their deeds.
The mentioned fence will be long gone, probably replaced by the retaining wall and the fence on top of it when the bungalows came along
There will be no one to enforce it anyway. Worth rattling their cage though by mentioning its in their deeds.
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