Trades - moan!!
Discussion
Saleen836 said:
Some tradesmen I know (i'm a tradesman) have a fixation with a price,lets use a plasterer as an example,most of the time they command and get for example £200 a day,this price gets etched into their brain and any job is a minimum of £200 a day,if a builder tells them they have a job and it's £160 a day the plasterer would rather sit at home earning nothing rather than work for £40 a day less, if a regular punter such as the OP says they have a job the plasterer will look at the job, know that it will take 3 or 4 hours but still want paying for a full day so states it's £200 which in most cases the regular punter thinks is too much
I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
If it was going to take me 4 hours I’d want £200 for the job, stuff rushing around to try to get to another job lined up and shoehorned into the day. I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
The construction industry generally is absolutely flat out at every level at the moment, and decent tradesmen are booked a long time in advance and commanding good money.
Whether a lot of the Eastern Europeans that everyone has been moaning about for the past few years have gone home because of Covid / Brexit, who knows!?
Whether a lot of the Eastern Europeans that everyone has been moaning about for the past few years have gone home because of Covid / Brexit, who knows!?
I am a tradesperson and can confirm like others have said it mad out there at the moment , so busy BUT that does not and should not account for poor customer service , when I first started being self employed 15 yrs ago , I was always amazed how some jobs I went to look at the clients would start off worth saying thank you so much for coming round or actually providing us with a quote .
With so much work we can be more selective and I am afraid a lot of tradespeople either wont bother turning up or turn up and never quote ?.
Praps try to pop in to say some of your local building merchants or say howdens or electrical suppliers etc and ask the counter staff , if they could recommend anyone , I know you wont be able to tell of there quality of work etc , but if they made a nice impression to the counter staff then you would of thought they have some morals and would at least turn up to quote for you ?
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful .
With so much work we can be more selective and I am afraid a lot of tradespeople either wont bother turning up or turn up and never quote ?.
Praps try to pop in to say some of your local building merchants or say howdens or electrical suppliers etc and ask the counter staff , if they could recommend anyone , I know you wont be able to tell of there quality of work etc , but if they made a nice impression to the counter staff then you would of thought they have some morals and would at least turn up to quote for you ?
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful .
Blakeatron said:
Honestly i am knackered, i am working over 100hrs a week and so are most of my lads. Crazy just to get the holiday lets opens again - now another massive push to complete the hotel work before early may. Tonight is the first night i have been home before 10pm for a few weeks!
Blimey. You need some balance.If you've got that much demand for your skills you need to control it by putting your prices up and cherry pick and manage your clients rather than let them manage you. The moment you do that the whingers and fusspots and cheapskates and pain in the arse clients get somebody else in who needs the work more than you do which leaves you the easy premium jobs you really want.
Dick potential new clients about a bit and play the long game. If they want you to do the work more than anybody else then happy days and that's a really useful filter mechanism to discover who'll accept top end pricing and the job being done when it suits you and who won't.
paulw123 said:
Saleen836 said:
Some tradesmen I know (i'm a tradesman) have a fixation with a price,lets use a plasterer as an example,most of the time they command and get for example £200 a day,this price gets etched into their brain and any job is a minimum of £200 a day,if a builder tells them they have a job and it's £160 a day the plasterer would rather sit at home earning nothing rather than work for £40 a day less, if a regular punter such as the OP says they have a job the plasterer will look at the job, know that it will take 3 or 4 hours but still want paying for a full day so states it's £200 which in most cases the regular punter thinks is too much
I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
If it was going to take me 4 hours I’d want £200 for the job, stuff rushing around to try to get to another job lined up and shoehorned into the day. I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
A case in point, if I have to crawl round under a floor all day I want £180 a day. Crawling round will knacker my back up so that £180 will pay for a nice comfy armchair to sit in when I'm 80. If someone is only prepared to pay me £150 for the day then I won't be able to afford the armchair so I'm better off not doing the job and saving my back so I don't need the armchair in the first place. Toil has a price.
Edited by scottyp123 on Friday 9th April 21:57
It is a 2 way battle to be fair as well, customers are just as bad as some tradesmen most of the time. This thread just reminded me of a quote we had to do a couple of days ago, this is the spec titled "TO DO LIST Easy"
TO DO LIST
Full House electrical rewire / new power box / Switches / New water pipes.
Roof and external checkimng
Remove ALL wallpapers and Repaint the Walls / Doors / Radiators
Remove ALL Carpet into Laminate
Fitted for new W.C & Kitchen
Remove all existing fitted furniture
Ground Floor
Hallway / Stairs
1) Under stair W.C
2) Relocate electric meter and boxes
3) Fix the overhead ceiling height of stairs
Lounge (Entertainment Room)
4) Relocate radiator to the bay window
5) Install a ceiling fan and LED lighting
6) Add a new Door for entering to the Lounge
7) Alcove Bookcase next to Chimney
8) Light Switch with appropriate power plug
Extension (Extended Kitchen and Dining Room)
9) Build a house end extension with brickwork, tiles roof and Velux)
10) LED lighting
11) Door to rear garden (As Priscilla’s)
12) Fixed Glass Window below the hanging Cabinet
13) New radiator.
14) Kitchen cooking hood ready (exhaust to outside from the house)
15) Light Switch with appropriate power plug
Living Room
16) Block the “Hole” at the wall
17) Rebuild the wall between Lounge and Living Room with power plug, antenna and internet plug
18) Install ceiling fan and LED lighting
19) Light Switch with appropriate power plug, antenna and internet plug.
Utility Room
20) Plan Subject to Floorplan
21) LED lighting with Switches
22) Fitting a New Boiler
23) Sewage and Drain ready for Washing Machine and Tumble Dryer
24) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs for kitchen applicants, built in applicants and refrigerators.
25) Relocate radiator if needed
First Floor
Landing and Corridor
26) Fitting a new Ceiling Lamp
27) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs Add Power Plug
28) With a huge loft access and new ladder
W.C ./ throom
29) Combine (Break the wall in between), 4 pieces toilet design
30) Floor rework (Tiles)
31) Install a Towel Warmer / Radiator
32) Floor drain outlet if it can be
33) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs Add Power Plug
34) LED lighting
Master Bedroom
35) Build in wardrobe
36) Install ceiling fan with Light
37) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs Add Power Plug
Second Bedroom
38) Install ceiling fan with Light
39) Remove Wall partially for built in wardrobe for third bedroom
40) Break the wall partially with third bedroom for fitting a “ build in wardrobe for third room”
Third Bedroom
41) Build in wardrobe
42) Install a new ceiling lamp
Loft
43) Check and Sightly renovate for storage
Sometimes the odd thing gets overlooked and ends up on the snagging list, so item 9 nestled away in the list is quite a biggie no?
Imagine the snagging list at the end of the job
1 :- socket not straight in bedroom 2
2 :- drip on paintwork on kitchen door.
3 :- kitchen extension not built
TO DO LIST
Full House electrical rewire / new power box / Switches / New water pipes.
Roof and external checkimng
Remove ALL wallpapers and Repaint the Walls / Doors / Radiators
Remove ALL Carpet into Laminate
Fitted for new W.C & Kitchen
Remove all existing fitted furniture
Ground Floor
Hallway / Stairs
1) Under stair W.C
2) Relocate electric meter and boxes
3) Fix the overhead ceiling height of stairs
Lounge (Entertainment Room)
4) Relocate radiator to the bay window
5) Install a ceiling fan and LED lighting
6) Add a new Door for entering to the Lounge
7) Alcove Bookcase next to Chimney
8) Light Switch with appropriate power plug
Extension (Extended Kitchen and Dining Room)
9) Build a house end extension with brickwork, tiles roof and Velux)
10) LED lighting
11) Door to rear garden (As Priscilla’s)
12) Fixed Glass Window below the hanging Cabinet
13) New radiator.
14) Kitchen cooking hood ready (exhaust to outside from the house)
15) Light Switch with appropriate power plug
Living Room
16) Block the “Hole” at the wall
17) Rebuild the wall between Lounge and Living Room with power plug, antenna and internet plug
18) Install ceiling fan and LED lighting
19) Light Switch with appropriate power plug, antenna and internet plug.
Utility Room
20) Plan Subject to Floorplan
21) LED lighting with Switches
22) Fitting a New Boiler
23) Sewage and Drain ready for Washing Machine and Tumble Dryer
24) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs for kitchen applicants, built in applicants and refrigerators.
25) Relocate radiator if needed
First Floor
Landing and Corridor
26) Fitting a new Ceiling Lamp
27) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs Add Power Plug
28) With a huge loft access and new ladder
W.C ./ throom
29) Combine (Break the wall in between), 4 pieces toilet design
30) Floor rework (Tiles)
31) Install a Towel Warmer / Radiator
32) Floor drain outlet if it can be
33) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs Add Power Plug
34) LED lighting
Master Bedroom
35) Build in wardrobe
36) Install ceiling fan with Light
37) Light Switch with appropriate power plugs Add Power Plug
Second Bedroom
38) Install ceiling fan with Light
39) Remove Wall partially for built in wardrobe for third bedroom
40) Break the wall partially with third bedroom for fitting a “ build in wardrobe for third room”
Third Bedroom
41) Build in wardrobe
42) Install a new ceiling lamp
Loft
43) Check and Sightly renovate for storage
Sometimes the odd thing gets overlooked and ends up on the snagging list, so item 9 nestled away in the list is quite a biggie no?
Imagine the snagging list at the end of the job
1 :- socket not straight in bedroom 2
2 :- drip on paintwork on kitchen door.
3 :- kitchen extension not built
I had an electrician for a while. Lovely chap, always happy to come over when needed, basically rewired the whole house over the course of a year or so as we progressed through doing up the various rooms. He was very chatty and liked to talk about his hobbies and other ‘business ventures,’ which at the very least were usually worth a raised eyebrow. Despite his potentially plod-bothering leisure activities, however, he was always prompt, polite and did a good job. I thought I was onto a winner.
Then, a couple of years ago, he just disappeared. Wouldn’t return messages, phone just rang out. I tried him a few times over the next few months and got the same result. To this day I’ve not heard of or from him. I did, rather uncharitably, wonder if perhaps he’d been banged up. Unless he was into something significantly worse than he told me about, though, I’d have thought he’d have got out by now. Very strange...
Then, a couple of years ago, he just disappeared. Wouldn’t return messages, phone just rang out. I tried him a few times over the next few months and got the same result. To this day I’ve not heard of or from him. I did, rather uncharitably, wonder if perhaps he’d been banged up. Unless he was into something significantly worse than he told me about, though, I’d have thought he’d have got out by now. Very strange...
I go to look at every job that comes to me. It is why I am always as busy as I want to be and why everybody who I do work for recommends me to others. However I also know within 5 minutes of talking to somebody if I am going to do the job and politely suggest they find someone else if I do not get a good feeling about them. It irritates that most trades do not even bother to turn up or give a quote as it reflects badly on us all it is not surprising though as most are very busy and have no clue about customer service or selling themselves although it is great for my business.
My business model entails not booking up further than two or three weeks as I then know that I am the only person able to do the job at short notice and can price accordingly, most trades around here are now booked up until at least Xmas and it will only get worse as we unlock.
I am expecting to have a very profitable year as desperate customers make good customers
My business model entails not booking up further than two or three weeks as I then know that I am the only person able to do the job at short notice and can price accordingly, most trades around here are now booked up until at least Xmas and it will only get worse as we unlock.
I am expecting to have a very profitable year as desperate customers make good customers
buy_cheap_pay_later said:
I had an electrician for a while. Lovely chap, always happy to come over when needed, basically rewired the whole house over the course of a year or so as we progressed through doing up the various rooms. He was very chatty and liked to talk about his hobbies and other ‘business ventures,’ which at the very least were usually worth a raised eyebrow. Despite his potentially plod-bothering leisure activities, however, he was always prompt, polite and did a good job. I thought I was onto a winner.
Then, a couple of years ago, he just disappeared. Wouldn’t return messages, phone just rang out. I tried him a few times over the next few months and got the same result. To this day I’ve not heard of or from him. I did, rather uncharitably, wonder if perhaps he’d been banged up. Unless he was into something significantly worse than he told me about, though, I’d have thought he’d have got out by now. Very strange...
Similar with me. Had a really good joiner. Guys work would be spot on everytime. Done work, had about 20 mins of work left and he would get paid as usual. Think it was about 3/400, said he would be back in the morning to finish off. Never turned up to finish it and never seen him again... well until last week 10 years later. Came into my work chatting like old pals whose not vanished for 10 years... Then, a couple of years ago, he just disappeared. Wouldn’t return messages, phone just rang out. I tried him a few times over the next few months and got the same result. To this day I’ve not heard of or from him. I did, rather uncharitably, wonder if perhaps he’d been banged up. Unless he was into something significantly worse than he told me about, though, I’d have thought he’d have got out by now. Very strange...
bristolracer said:
Gosh has it been a week since the last slag off a tradesmen thread?
Next new thread due should be about elderly drivers followed by some snowflake vs boomer handbag duel.
Apologies. I don't frequent this section often enough to know it's a regular topic. Had a very frustrating week with this. Next new thread due should be about elderly drivers followed by some snowflake vs boomer handbag duel.
Thanks for all inputs folks. Got a few things to follow up.
scottyp123 said:
paulw123 said:
Saleen836 said:
Some tradesmen I know (i'm a tradesman) have a fixation with a price,lets use a plasterer as an example,most of the time they command and get for example £200 a day,this price gets etched into their brain and any job is a minimum of £200 a day,if a builder tells them they have a job and it's £160 a day the plasterer would rather sit at home earning nothing rather than work for £40 a day less, if a regular punter such as the OP says they have a job the plasterer will look at the job, know that it will take 3 or 4 hours but still want paying for a full day so states it's £200 which in most cases the regular punter thinks is too much
I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
If it was going to take me 4 hours I’d want £200 for the job, stuff rushing around to try to get to another job lined up and shoehorned into the day. I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
A case in point, if I have to crawl round under a floor all day I want £180 a day. Crawling round will knacker my back up so that £180 will pay for a nice comfy armchair to sit in when I'm 80. If someone is only prepared to pay me £150 for the day then I won't be able to afford the armchair so I'm better off not doing the job and saving my back so I don't need the armchair in the first place. Toil has a price.
Edited by scottyp123 on Friday 9th April 21:57
How long does it take to write an email, quick phone call or Facebook message to say ‘Sorry I’m too busy to take any more work on at present’
I’ve looked for people to quote for a bit of garden work. 2 turned up and quoted, I went with one but emailed the other to say sorry you weren’t successful. (btw how many people do that? Not many I bet) I might use either of them again if needed. The other 3 that I contacted and either didn’t reply or didn’t show up I’ll never consider again.
Treating customers as disposable unfortunately works in the present climate because there is too much work and not enough tradesmen. If they ignore a potential job well who cares another will be along shortly.
Random story...I used to be a milkman in the SE of Scotland. I got home one day to a message on my answerphone from a woman wanting a delivery. The only problem was she lived in London. Obviously got my name off the net and didn’t look any further. Did I ignore it? No I phoned her back , explained she was slightly out of my area and we had a good laugh about it. That’s called being a decent member of society.
Saleen836 said:
scottyp123 said:
paulw123 said:
Saleen836 said:
Some tradesmen I know (i'm a tradesman) have a fixation with a price,lets use a plasterer as an example,most of the time they command and get for example £200 a day,this price gets etched into their brain and any job is a minimum of £200 a day,if a builder tells them they have a job and it's £160 a day the plasterer would rather sit at home earning nothing rather than work for £40 a day less, if a regular punter such as the OP says they have a job the plasterer will look at the job, know that it will take 3 or 4 hours but still want paying for a full day so states it's £200 which in most cases the regular punter thinks is too much
I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
If it was going to take me 4 hours I’d want £200 for the job, stuff rushing around to try to get to another job lined up and shoehorned into the day. I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
A case in point, if I have to crawl round under a floor all day I want £180 a day. Crawling round will knacker my back up so that £180 will pay for a nice comfy armchair to sit in when I'm 80. If someone is only prepared to pay me £150 for the day then I won't be able to afford the armchair so I'm better off not doing the job and saving my back so I don't need the armchair in the first place. Toil has a price.
Edited by scottyp123 on Friday 9th April 21:57
Saleen836 said:
Some tradesmen I know (i'm a tradesman) have a fixation with a price,lets use a plasterer as an example,most of the time they command and get for example £200 a day,this price gets etched into their brain and any job is a minimum of £200 a day,if a builder tells them they have a job and it's £160 a day the plasterer would rather sit at home earning nothing rather than work for £40 a day less, if a regular punter such as the OP says they have a job the plasterer will look at the job, know that it will take 3 or 4 hours but still want paying for a full day so states it's £200 which in most cases the regular punter thinks is too much
I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
did you pick plasterer for a reason, as most spreads won't entertain part days, you got them for a day wages or not at all!I had the same recently but with window cleaners! contacted 5/6 local ones asking for a price for a regular clean, the one that has the job is the only one that turned up to look at the house and give me a price
I sometimes think they're doing something smarter than sparks plumbers etc for whom the 1,2 hour bitty jobs are part + parcel, but I guess I can bundle bit jobs together or round other stuff wheras most people require spreads for larger stuff so they'll struggle to fill gaps.
Plus its precedence, if I had to sell my skills to people who want to negotiate markedly downwards (and undoubtedly set that precedence) then b0llocks I'd rather sit on my arse/go flip burgers, my experience informs me Itd be more satisfying anyway! They can deal with the monkeys they'll get.
LocoBlade said:
Bain of my life at the moment too, it seems being competent at a trade and competent at customer relations are two traits that a single human is incapable of possessing. We even had an electrician thats a friend of the family promise to turn up twice to quote, didn't show for either and then when chased again said they're to busy to commit to doing the work.
I think that's the key. There are two core skills required by a tradesman, the ability to actually do the job professionally and the ability to put their own socks and pants on. Finding someone with both skill sets is quite difficult. Over the years I have come to appreciate that the best tradesmen are the ones who have a 'mother' to take care of the complexity of getting dressed in the morning. That means either using a company that schedules everything or finding a tradesman whose wife handles the admin and tells him where and when to be somewhere to carry out the more simple of the two tasks.
I have a good handyman, a good electrician and now a good plumber and what they all have in common is that you coordinate everything with their wife. All the tradesman has to do is follow his wife's basic instructions. All three are good at their jobs but what saves me a fortune in time is that they leave the really difficult stuff such as arriving where and when agreed to people much better suited.
Ring all the local numbers and just hang up if the phone isn't answered by a woman. That really does filter out a huge number of time wasters.
Something strange is going on with the replies, I am trying to quote Saleen but it just says 403 forbidden for some strange reason.
Thats absolutely fine with me though, where do you end it, £30 a day would pay my bills now but if I start working for that then everyone will want me to work for it. If I say go on then I'll do it for £150 then I will never be able to charge them £180 a day again.
The only way I will ever entertain it is if we are guaranteed more hours per day, then we will drop our hourly rate but work harder and still finish at the same time. We did this a couple of years ago shop fitting at night. We dropped our hourly rate down to £16 per hour for him but he guaranteed us 12 hours per night. I don't think we even did an 8 hour shift on any of the shops, we could start at 6PM when they shut and only once do I remember being in one until 2AM, we mostly finished about 11-12PM. Some jobs were two night affairs and a lot of the time we were only at the shop for an hour or two the second night. We were even given a pair of new Transits to use, hotels and fuel was all paid for as well, Easy work just swapping lights for LED's mainly, I think it was one of the best jobs we ever did.
We very rarely work on hourly or day rate now though, unless its for a builder and there are very few of them we will work for, we mostly just price jobs and the price is the price, how long we are there for doesn't come into it, usually its in the customers own interest for us to hurry the job up.
Thats absolutely fine with me though, where do you end it, £30 a day would pay my bills now but if I start working for that then everyone will want me to work for it. If I say go on then I'll do it for £150 then I will never be able to charge them £180 a day again.
The only way I will ever entertain it is if we are guaranteed more hours per day, then we will drop our hourly rate but work harder and still finish at the same time. We did this a couple of years ago shop fitting at night. We dropped our hourly rate down to £16 per hour for him but he guaranteed us 12 hours per night. I don't think we even did an 8 hour shift on any of the shops, we could start at 6PM when they shut and only once do I remember being in one until 2AM, we mostly finished about 11-12PM. Some jobs were two night affairs and a lot of the time we were only at the shop for an hour or two the second night. We were even given a pair of new Transits to use, hotels and fuel was all paid for as well, Easy work just swapping lights for LED's mainly, I think it was one of the best jobs we ever did.
We very rarely work on hourly or day rate now though, unless its for a builder and there are very few of them we will work for, we mostly just price jobs and the price is the price, how long we are there for doesn't come into it, usually its in the customers own interest for us to hurry the job up.
DonkeyApple said:
LocoBlade said:
Bain of my life at the moment too, it seems being competent at a trade and competent at customer relations are two traits that a single human is incapable of possessing. We even had an electrician thats a friend of the family promise to turn up twice to quote, didn't show for either and then when chased again said they're to busy to commit to doing the work.
I think that's the key. There are two core skills required by a tradesman, the ability to actually do the job professionally and the ability to put their own socks and pants on. Finding someone with both skill sets is quite difficult. Over the years I have come to appreciate that the best tradesmen are the ones who have a 'mother' to take care of the complexity of getting dressed in the morning. That means either using a company that schedules everything or finding a tradesman whose wife handles the admin and tells him where and when to be somewhere to carry out the more simple of the two tasks.
I have a good handyman, a good electrician and now a good plumber and what they all have in common is that you coordinate everything with their wife. All the tradesman has to do is follow his wife's basic instructions. All three are good at their jobs but what saves me a fortune in time is that they leave the really difficult stuff such as arriving where and when agreed to people much better suited.
Ring all the local numbers and just hang up if the phone isn't answered by a woman. That really does filter out a huge number of time wasters.
We had a looney the other day, we had problems with a CCTV system, it was the only thing left to do on the job and as soon as it was working we could collect £6K but it just wouldn't play ball. We were meant to finish that job at noon and go on to the next job which was a £50 job, move a socket in the hallway, thats all. I got a screenshot of a text conversation along the lines of how she had wasted a day waiting in for us, even though another tradesman was on-site anyway and she didn't even have to be there. Yep, of course we will abandon the £6K just to appease her Karenistic ego.
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