Trades - moan!!

[Antony Moxey]

I think the entire point of the thread is trades not doing what they’ve promised, not the quality of their work. If you can’t quote for six weeks then say so, if you’re too busy to quote then fine, so be it, but to tell people you’ll quote then don’t bother turning up is people’s main beef, not how good their work is or what they charge.

[DonkeyApple]

C Lee Farquar said:

DonkeyApple said:

Ring all the local numbers and just hang up if the phone isn't answered by a woman. That really does filter out a huge number of time wasters.

If you want concrete next week, I'm afraid my wife is away.

Thanks for the warning. I'll wait then. No point in having it delivered on the wrong day and through the drawing room window!

[bristoltype603]

scottyp123 said:

It is a 2 way battle to be fair as well, customers are just as bad as some tradesmen most of the time. This thread just reminded me of a quote we had to do a couple of days ago, this is the spec titled "TO DO LIST Easy"

Do you get many this bad?

scottyp123 said:

11) Door to rear garden (As Priscilla’s)

Particularly liked this bit...WTF is a Priscilla

[Square Leg]

I’ve got so much work this year it really is an odd one, considering the state of the country.
Currently booked well into September but getting constant enquiries.
I always, always tell them on the initial call how busy I am, that I’m happy to come and quote, but I can’t do the work until at least September- recently they’ve said ‘that’s fine, come and have a look’...

So I spend time driving there, an hour or so making notes, taking pictures, small talk about her husbands dodgy stomach and to mind the smell from the bathroom, then the drive home and to an hour of writing out the quote, getting materials prices etc.

I email the quote and then wait....sometimes it’s a day, often a week or more.
Then the reply - ‘happy to accept the quote but we need the work doing in June, July - can you squeeze us in please?’

So my time utterly wasted.

[mart 63]

Square Leg said:

I’ve got so much work this year it really is an odd one, considering the state of the country.
Currently booked well into September but getting constant enquiries.
I always, always tell them on the initial call how busy I am, that I’m happy to come and quote, but I can’t do the work until at least September- recently they’ve said ‘that’s fine, come and have a look’...

So I spend time driving there, an hour or so making notes, taking pictures, small talk about her husbands dodgy stomach and to mind the smell from the bathroom, then the drive home and to an hour of writing out the quote, getting materials prices etc.

I email the quote and then wait....sometimes it’s a day, often a week or more.
Then the reply - ‘happy to accept the quote but we need the work doing in June, July - can you squeeze us in please?’

So my time utterly wasted.

Yep, private customers are a joke. I only contract to a couple of County Councils now. Life is so much easier now, even with supplying RAMS. Than some tool saying do you think if you do it this way, could I save money. fk off and find somebody off Facebook.

[Johnnytheboy]

Presumably *someone* has to work for private customers?

Or do we just deserve to have our houses gradually disintegrate for being so awkward to deal with?

[Gareth79]

When you see tired (or even dilapidated) houses on Rightmove being sold after the owner has died, you can understand how when people get to 70+ they'd rather just live with what they have rather than the hassle of paying somebody money to get stuff repaired/updated

[mart 63]

Johnnytheboy said:

Presumably *someone* has to work for private customers?

Or do we just deserve to have our houses gradually disintegrate for being so awkward to deal with?

Facebook or check a trade

[Square Leg]

Johnnytheboy said:

Presumably *someone* has to work for private customers?

Or do we just deserve to have our houses gradually disintegrate for being so awkward to deal with?

I only do domestic work - builders are worse than private customers and generally want everything at the lowest price possible

Tradesmen are also customers of other tradesmen - I’ve recently had a bd of a job getting various trades to quote for work on my own house.
Missed appointments, no shows and promised quotes never appearing.
We also know what it’s like, from a customers pov.

[C Lee Farquar]

DonkeyApple said:

Thanks for the warning. I'll wait then. No point in having it delivered on the wrong day and through the drawing room window!

No problem, I'll concentrate on perfecting sucking air through my teeth when you ask the price

[DonkeyApple]

Square Leg said:

I’ve got so much work this year it really is an odd one, considering the state of the country.
Currently booked well into September but getting constant enquiries.
I always, always tell them on the initial call how busy I am, that I’m happy to come and quote, but I can’t do the work until at least September- recently they’ve said ‘that’s fine, come and have a look’...

So I spend time driving there, an hour or so making notes, taking pictures, small talk about her husbands dodgy stomach and to mind the smell from the bathroom, then the drive home and to an hour of writing out the quote, getting materials prices etc.

I email the quote and then wait....sometimes it’s a day, often a week or more.
Then the reply - ‘happy to accept the quote but we need the work doing in June, July - can you squeeze us in please?’

So my time utterly wasted.

It's definitely something that cuts both ways with no shortage of time wasting customers. However, what you have described seems to be akin to your own personal choice to kick yourself in the balls.

I think that what I would be doing is collecting the basic contact details of enquiries while making it extremely clear that you are not taking business until September and then just bulk message them in August and process any that come back.

On the client side, we are well aware of other time wasting clients but that still doesn't mean we want our time wasted. It's one of those two wrongs not making a right. Just because Mr Smith is a tyre kicking bellend doesn't excuse Mr Tradesman from being one. It's even more enraging when you've taken a half day out of the office and the bloke either doesn't bother to turn up, doesn't even bother to have the most basic of manners to even tell you that he is reneging on an agreement or they do turn up, take two hours of your time going through everything, explains that a quote will follow and then bizarrely that's the last you ever hear from them. But the final one is the cretin who manages to turn up, takes up your time and then sends you a one line quote with a number that he's made up based on the length of your driveway and the baffling belief that because you can walk upright and speak normally you must be some kind of retard who throws thousands of pounds at anyone who asks.

Good tradesmen are worth their weight in gold but there are quite a few who are good at the work but don't appreciate that the administration side is equally important.

It's also interesting on these threads as the tradesmen who absolutely know that half the people in their profession are incompetent or dishonest gibbons seem to prefer to blame the customers while down the pub will talk all evening about how crap Dave is down the road.

One of the worst professions for administrative incompetence and creating accounting that I've had to deal with over the years is roofers. I've no idea why but the chances of one ever doing anything that they agree to do seems as remote as finding one who can price a job without measuring the drive. I've finally found a chap down in the village who is excellent because he'll work by SMS, doesn't need you to be there and you leave the payment with the publican whenever you're next passing. Prior to that chance encounter it had been a total farce of practically needing to book 3 or 4 roofers for the same time in the hopes that at least one might appear and then it was just a case of waiting for the comedy number they had dreamt up.

[Square Leg]

Contacting people in August isn’t viable as by then I’d be booked up until December..
I don’t see how I can do anymore than I do by making it abundantly clear as to when I can do the work, and they confirm that’ll be fine on the initial contact.
People just don’t listen, or want to listen when you tell them it’ll be 4 months wait, and generally don’t plan ahead.
My regular customers all know how busy I get and they do plan ahead, hence I always have work to go to without advertising.

As I alluded to in my later post, tradesmen are also at the mercy of other tradesmen - even when we plan well ahead....

[DonkeyApple]

Square Leg said:

Contacting people in August isn’t viable as by then I’d be booked up until December..
I don’t see how I can do anymore than I do by making it abundantly clear as to when I can do the work, and they confirm that’ll be fine on the initial contact.
People just don’t listen, or want to listen when you tell them it’ll be 4 months wait, and generally don’t plan ahead.
My regular customers all know how busy I get and they do plan ahead, hence I always have work to go to without advertising.

As I alluded to in my later post, tradesmen are also at the mercy of other tradesmen - even when we plan well ahead....

It doesn't have to specifically be August. . It just seems logical from what you have explained that you'd be better off taking their details but not spending your time going to see them until you as the professional in the equation know that when you'd be able to do the work fits in with the typical client expectation. They then either respond that they've found someone already or that they haven't.

Personally, if I was booked until Sept I wouldn't be wasting any of my time attending potential quotes as you'd be pretty much spot on in the assumption that anyone who has been triggered by a bit of Spring sunshine to start something will almost certainly be wanting it done for Summer. Let them big down your competition and just contact them when your timing fits your understanding of typical client timing. Chances are that they won't have found anyone, changed their plans, sobered up, got divorced or have a clear idea of what they want to do, are ready to go and have been worn down by the incompetence of your competitors.

[Rick101]

Similar stories here but thankfully I now have a few reasonable trades on hand.

I did manage to get a small job kitchen job done last year. Replace crappy hob hood with a decent one with external extraction.
Obviously the kitchen fitting companies were not interested because it wasn't £20K.
Found a local guy through a friend. He came out, measured job, checked (supplied hood) and sucked his teeth a bit.

Eventually came back with a price and I replied to say yep great, when can you do it.
When he did arrive to do the fitting he mentioned he was very surprised I went for it as he didn't think I'd like the price.

Maybe that's an issue, somewhat like car sales, if they *think you can't afford the price they want to trade at, they don't waste their time.
Whilst a lot of trades say people just want everything on the cheap. In my experience from friends and family folk are happy to pay more if you do what you are supposed to do!

[DonkeyApple]

Rick101 said:

Similar stories here but thankfully I now have a few reasonable trades on hand.

I did manage to get a small job kitchen job done last year. Replace crappy hob hood with a decent one with external extraction.
Obviously the kitchen fitting companies were not interested because it wasn't £20K.
Found a local guy through a friend. He came out, measured job, checked (supplied hood) and sucked his teeth a bit.

Eventually came back with a price and I replied to say yep great, when can you do it.
When he did arrive to do the fitting he mentioned he was very surprised I went for it as he didn't think I'd like the price.

Maybe that's an issue, somewhat like car sales, if they *think you can't afford the price they want to trade at, they don't waste their time.
Whilst a lot of trades say people just want everything on the cheap. In my experience from friends and family folk are happy to pay more if you do what you are supposed to do!

You do see on PH a complete misunderstanding of what the real costs of labour and running a small business are and I imagine that's a pain for tradesmen. A few years ago I found a small, family building firm local to me whose quotes will always be the highest but you're absolutely guaranteed perfect work, perfect timing and they'll never come to you with problems because they just deal with them. They give a peace of mind that makes them cheaper than the others with lower quotes.

[princeperch]

The polish guy I use is very cheap (150 a day in London and he can do electrics plumbing, tiling, and other bits and pieces). But as to be expected , he is also very unreliable. To the point when he was doing a 3 week job for me 3 years ago he didn't bother to turn up for a week, left me without a washing machine and didn't call me to say why. I had to put a rocket up his arse since and he hasn't pulled a stunt like that again.

Part of the reason he is cheap is because he doesn't have a van. Hes also very unorganised. He gets an uber to most jobs with his tools and then gets an uber back when he's done.

So in an attempt to make sure he actually turns up to my job, I now go and pick him up in my car. A bit like a naughty child. I make out im doing him a favour so he doesn't have to get an uber, but I'm actually doing it to make sure he starts on the day we agree and the job actually gets done. It takes me 25 mins to drive to his place, so yes its time out of my day, but I'd rather do that then mess about calling him and getting stressed about it. If he was 200 a day I wouldn't do it but 150 a day in London is peanuts and his work is good. So I end up being a taxi for my builder.

I bet noone else can top that can they !

[scottyp123]

bristoltype603 said:

scottyp123 said:

It is a 2 way battle to be fair as well, customers are just as bad as some tradesmen most of the time. This thread just reminded me of a quote we had to do a couple of days ago, this is the spec titled "TO DO LIST Easy"

Do you get many this bad?

scottyp123 said:

11) Door to rear garden (As Priscilla’s)

Particularly liked this bit...WTF is a Priscilla

Not got a clue what a priscilla is, I'm taking a wild guess that its his neighbour but seen as we haven't even met him yet then we certainly won't know what the neighbours door looks like. Luckily I'm only quoting on the electrical side of things but to answer your question about do we often get jobs this bad then the answer is all the time.

Even off so called professionals as well, every kitchen plan we have had recently has been up the wall and needed sending back to the designer to try again. We are going through the motions with one at the minute, the job is about 30 minutes from where we live. We went down initially to meet the client who said quote for a basic spec but when we do the job they will want a more expensive spec so we would need to quote again

So we did a basic quote (£3K), after a couple of weeks they said they want another site meeting to discuss the detailed spec that they wanted in the first place, we reluctantly went down again and was there for 2 hours discussing things, we went away and requoted, it is now £8K. They then forwarded another quote to us from a polish bloke that was £7700 but he quoted for a bit less stuff so our price is pretty much bob on.

They have now told us that the figure they had in mind for doing the job was £6500 and can we meet them again on site to discuss how it can be done for that.

Mental.

[scottyp123]

mart 63 said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Presumably *someone* has to work for private customers?

Or do we just deserve to have our houses gradually disintegrate for being so awkward to deal with?

Facebook or check a trade

Another quote I have recently done after a recommend from a plasterer the woman got back in touch and said thanks for the quote, I've got one more to get but can you send me your check a trade details so I can read your reviews.

Not that I have any desire to do so but I wouldn't even know where to begin doing things like check a trade or whatever it is.

The funniest bit about this job was when I went round to quote they had laminate flooring all throughout the downstairs rooms which was half ripped up. I asked why they were ripping it up and they said the first person that came round to quote said it would need to come up to enable new wires to go under the sub floor. I said oh right why not just go through the trap door under the stairs and crawl round the 3ft deep sub floor to do it instead.

[Teddy Lop]

scottyp123 said:

They have now told us that the figure they had in mind for doing the job was £6500 and can we meet them again on site to discuss how it can be done for that.

Mental

God that phrase presses my buttons. Its the implied knowledge that's so conceited, rather than just an honest "I want to pay less"

Have you asked them which 20% of the job lopping off they have in mind.

[Little Lofty]

I’ve just done a loft conversion on a property I’m flipping, I haven’t done one for about 8 years and quite enjoyed doing one again, I done around 100 in the 2000’s. I still get the occasional phone call asking if I’d quote for a conversion but I’ve always got too much on. I have thought about getting back into them while everything is so busy, but then I remember about a customer emailing me at 1am, complaining that his wife wasn’t able to make a cup of tea when she came in from work at 2pm because we had the water switched off, it was off because we needed to cut into the water feeds for the loft ensuite, we hadn’t turned it off for fun and it was back on at 4.00 before we left, I could understand it if we’d left them with no water for the weekend or no showering facilities like the guy on here recently who was showering in his back yard. Or the other guy who also emailed complaining we had forgot to turn off the landing light when we left at 4.30 as he didn’t get back from work until 5.30. If they had complained about something serious I could have put it right and apologised, but I find it hard to deal with such trivial matters, especially after seeing some truly horrific conversions where people have had their houses made worthless, and have no money left to put them right, and all my customer had to complain about was not being able to have a cup of tea. Don’t get me wrong the vast majority of customer are fine, I’m still friends with some of them 15 years later, its the odd tit that spoils it for everyone, I guess in the same way the odd cowboy gets us all a bad name.