Obscene increases in building/construction materials prices

[Pit Pony]

ben5575 said:

Pit Pony said:

The house building I see seems to be like an assembly line.
Each week they start a new house. Gradually the scaffolding moves along to the next plot.
As a manufacturing engineer, I assumed they were working a standard Takt time. Each week the same things happen over and over again, one house at a time. ? If not? Why not ?

Housing sites are built vertically, not horizontally.

If I have a site for 50 houses, cheapest and easiest way for me to build it would, for example, get the ground works guys in and dig/install all the founds and drainage for all 50 units in one visit. I.e. horiziontally across the site.

If I did this I would be left with 50 units built to dpc. It makes no sense for me to have that much money sunk (literally) in WIP. So I'll do a first phase of 10-15 units instead.

The actual construction is a function of the finance and cashflow. You're (understandably) thinking of it being a construction project when it's not.

Modular switches this as described and is best suited for delivering schemes quickly and in volume. As above this is based on an order for delivering X no. of houses to an RP. This is a construction project.

This is also why modular works for well for student accommodation, hotels etc. Also construction projects.

So not single piece flow. It's batch production?

[blueg33]

Pit Pony said:

So not single piece flow. It's batch production?

Ours is a blend

single piece flow to create the panels and pods in the factory, assembled on site as a batch

We are looking at making site work as single piece flow, but rather than move the piece we move the team. Our analysis shows that single piece flow is faster with less wait time between operations.

We can currently assemble the house on site in 16 hours, looking to drop this down to 8 hours

[PAUL500]

Prices are all over the place, as are stock levels, I was paying 68p for blocks before the first lockdown, friend is doing some work and they are now over £1.50 at the DIY sheds and the bigger merchants (who have no stock anyway), he managed to find a little local merchant with plenty in stock for 79p

Had 3 quotes for some steel sections this week, just cut and deliver, ranged from £340 plus vat to £560 plus vat for exactly the same thing!

Edited by PAUL500 on Wednesday 12th May 17:57

[WyrleyD]

Had to go to Wickes this afternoon for a few bits but came away with nothing, a lot of empty sections on the shelves saying "waiting for stock" and a big sign on the entrance door saying "No Cement or Postcrete until further notice, no stock and no supplies due soon".

[C Lee Farquar]

I spoke too soon, had a call today. Bulk cement up 6% from July, non negotiable.

At least it will be easy to pass on.

[anonymous-user]

C Lee Farquar said:

I spoke too soon, had a call today. Bulk cement up 6% from July, non negotiable.

At least it will be easy to pass on.

Letter yesterday, Bulk sand going up 1st June and reps were in last week to inform of stone price rises, rum feckers, blaming cement rise on 'carbon credits' as well.

[Mr Whippy]

What do people expect?

Pay people who would make stuff to sit around at home consuming stuff instead.

Supply vs demand issues.


If this isn’t a sign of why UBI is a bad idea I don’t know what is.

[Welshbeef]

Do all the productions sites have all staff back and been back for a significant amount of time due to the demand?

Or are they still furloughing staff so is the tax payer pay for that plus we all get hammered with higher product cost too?

[Tony Angelino]

Welshbeef said:

Do all the productions sites have all staff back and been back for a significant amount of time due to the demand?

Or are they still furloughing staff so is the tax payer pay for that plus we all get hammered with higher product cost too?

In my industry (timber and wood panels) the manufacturers are all fully staffed and have been since the start of summer last year. They hugely underestimated demand and didn't catch back up last year when they went into the traditionally busy Autumn period. High demand and lack if imports for various reasons have meant that there simply isn't enough product to go round, this is forecast to worsen as demand increases further from other international markets. We also suspect the UK based manufacturers are exporting but we don't know that for sure.

Basically, every wood panel producer is rationing the volume they give to the distrubutors.

[anonymous-user]

Mr Whippy said:

What do people expect?

Pay people who would make stuff to sit around at home consuming stuff instead.

Supply vs demand issues.

If this isn’t a sign of why UBI is a bad idea I don’t know what is.

It has been the perfect storm.

1) Loads of people paid to sit at home on furlough - These people get bored then endlessly look for stuff to buy, spend the money like water, renovate their gardens, build patios, renovate homes, buy themselves things. Lockdown means they can’t spend it on the usual stuff like eating out.

2) People are working from home - Have plenty of spare cash due to lockdown and no commute - They end up spending money like water, build themselves garden rooms for offices, improve their gardens, loft conversions, redecoration, build extensions, renovate their homes, decide they need a new kitchen etc

3) Covid has disrupted manufacturing and supply chains.

4) Brexit has disrupted supply chains.

So yeah, demand has been biblical and supply has been severely dented.

All we can hope for is that everyone’s ‘home renovation’ or ‘home office’ projects will be coming to an end, people will be sent back to offices, spare cash will reduce, supply chains and manufacturing will recover, and the equilibrium will be restored.

[anonymous-user]

Going on recent experience it's not just materials that are in short supply. Trades people have become a rarity too. Anyone else experience waiting for them to arrive, then they are working for a couple of hours - turn your back and they've gone to do the same at another job. Juggling lots of jobs at once, but being very inefficient in the process.

[Welshbeef]

Lord Marylebone said:

It has been the perfect storm.

1) Loads of people paid to sit at home on furlough - These people get bored then endlessly look for stuff to buy, spend the money like water, renovate their gardens, build patios, renovate homes, buy themselves things. Lockdown means they can’t spend it on the usual stuff like eating out.

2) People are working from home - Have plenty of spare cash due to lockdown and no commute - They end up spending money like water, build themselves garden rooms for offices, improve their gardens, loft conversions, redecoration, build extensions, renovate their homes, decide they need a new kitchen etc

3) Covid has disrupted manufacturing and supply chains.

4) Brexit has disrupted supply chains.

So yeah, demand has been biblical and supply has been severely dented.

All we can hope for is that everyone’s ‘home renovation’ or ‘home office’ projects will be coming to an end, people will be sent back to offices, spare cash will reduce, supply chains and manufacturing will recover, and the equilibrium will be restored.

Hopefully your point 1. Those individuals on furlough have not been blowing cash as unless they have returned to work or it’s a certainty they will be out of work after being sat at home doing nothing for 18 odd months.

[Nemophilist]

MDF and timber in Europe which would normally be for the european market is being bought in bulk by America and China.

Something to do with 'The Biden Plan' in part I have been told.

We are working on major builds across London and Oxford and are struggling to buy

[Biggus thingus]

Nemophilist said:

MDF and timber in Europe which would normally be for the european market is being bought in bulk by America and China.

Something to do with 'The Biden Plan' in part I have been told.

We are working on major builds across London and Oxford and are struggling to buy

HS2 will be soaking up quite abit as well

[Geekman]

PAUL500 said:

Prices are all over the place, as are stock levels, I was paying 68p for blocks before the first lockdown, friend is doing some work and they are now over £1.50 at the DIY sheds and the bigger merchants (who have no stock anyway), he managed to find a little local merchant with plenty in stock for 79p

Edited by PAUL500 on Wednesday 12th May 17:57

I just bought 2500 blocks for the equivalent of 35p each here in Mexico. I knew they were more expensive in the UK, but £1.50 is an enormous amount. I feel for anyone building in the UK right now.

[StoatInACoat]

Nemophilist said:

MDF and timber in Europe which would normally be for the european market is being bought in bulk by America and China.

Something to do with 'The Biden Plan' in part I have been told.

We are working on major builds across London and Oxford and are struggling to buy

I had a rep claiming that the factory they get 12mm and 9mm MDF from in Hungary has been shut down temporarily due to "unspecified" health and safety issues which this time isn't actually covid! The same supplier apparently has two containers of 2/3mm glass on the Evergiven so they're either very unlucky or very good at excuses.

We had huge problems getting hold of mouldings for framing last year because the majority comes from Italy. When they'd finished their covid lockdown last year the same factories closed again for their August holidays that they have every year meaning they were 3-4 months behind on production when they got going again. Getting anything out of China is still cheaper but is taking forever and god knows where our timber supplier is getting his stuff from now but I assume it is from the same place Wickes get their special bendy wood.

It's not just the cost of everything but now I'm actually struggling to keep stock coming in and finding suppliers that actually have stuff. Luckily I can't ship anything out either because the pallet network is collapsing and there's so much paperwork attached to out international shipments that they get held for a month while someone reads all of it.

Edited by StoatInACoat on Thursday 13th May 15:06

[Trophy Husband]

Westminster are relying on construction to pull us away from recession. The joke is that we don't produce enough construction products in the UK to help us do that.
Whilst Covid could never have been predicted, any construction products we need either from the EU or via the EU, are going to be at a premium.
My gut tells me that we're going to get shafted?

[Tallow]

Nemophilist said:

MDF and timber in Europe which would normally be for the european market is being bought in bulk by America and China.

Something to do with 'The Biden Plan' in part I have been told.

We are working on major builds across London and Oxford and are struggling to buy

Lumber is probably being exported to the US on some level, but it is nothing to do with Biden: It's just a supply and demand issue. Lack of sawmill capacity in the US combined with a massive increase in demand like everywhere else has caused prices to skyrocket. Side note: there's actually an oversupply of unfinished wood, it just doesn't have anywhere to be cut.

Building lumber costs anything up to five times what it did prepandemic times. If I were making it, I'd seriously consider selling it for that kind of markup, too. The prices were already preciptously spiralling prior to the administration change and have been skyrocketing for about a year now.

[blueg33]

China has a massive building programme, but relatively very little timber. We were going to source doors in China until we found out that the timber came from Finland and Norway.

[noopets]

StoatInACoat said:

I had a rep claiming that the factory they get 12mm and 9mm MDF from in Hungary has been shut down temporarily due to "unspecified" health and safety issues which this time isn't actually covid! The same supplier apparently has two containers of 2/3mm glass on the Evergiven so they're either very unlucky or very good at excuses.

We had huge problems getting hold of mouldings for framing last year because the majority comes from Italy. When they'd finished their covid lockdown last year the same factories closed again for their August holidays that they have every year meaning they were 3-4 months behind on production when they got going again. Getting anything out of China is still cheaper but is taking forever and god knows where our timber supplier is getting his stuff from now but I assume it is from the same place Wickes get their special bendy wood.

It's not just the cost of everything but now I'm actually struggling to keep stock coming in and finding suppliers that actually have stuff. Luckily I can't ship anything out either because the pallet network is collapsing and there's so much paperwork attached to out international shipments that they get held for a month while someone reads all of it.

Edited by StoatInACoat on Thursday 13th May 15:06

Maybe explains the lack of 9mm mdf in the big sheds at the moment!