Smart meters - Avoid?

[AyBee]

Megaflow said:

We all know the first generation of smart meters were only useful while still connected to the original supplier. Well, it looks like the second generation of meters, using ‘the internet of things’ or the old 2G phone network, might not have much more life in them as the government plan to phase 2G out.

https://apple.news/AvaaBUFTVRhC9j3rJYdlqvQ

All you've proved with that comment is that you can't actually read.

[Megaflow]

AyBee said:

Megaflow said:

We all know the first generation of smart meters were only useful while still connected to the original supplier. Well, it looks like the second generation of meters, using ‘the internet of things’ or the old 2G phone network, might not have much more life in them as the government plan to phase 2G out.

https://apple.news/AvaaBUFTVRhC9j3rJYdlqvQ

All you've proved with that comment is that you can't actually read.

How is that, when the article literally says:

Telegraph said:

Another issue is that many existing devices will need to be upgraded, after the Government and mobile phone providers announced plans to phase out the networks used by existing devices by 2033. 
This will render many current meters obsolete, requiring upgrades by engineers.
The meters transmit data to a national network via “communications hubs”. In Wales and central and southern England, they use 2G and 3G mobile networks. The Government has confirmed these networks will be phased out. 

[KTF]

Megaflow said:

AyBee said:

Megaflow said:

We all know the first generation of smart meters were only useful while still connected to the original supplier. Well, it looks like the second generation of meters, using ‘the internet of things’ or the old 2G phone network, might not have much more life in them as the government plan to phase 2G out.

https://apple.news/AvaaBUFTVRhC9j3rJYdlqvQ

All you've proved with that comment is that you can't actually read.

How is that, when the article literally says:

Telegraph said:

Another issue is that many existing devices will need to be upgraded, after the Government and mobile phone providers announced plans to phase out the networks used by existing devices by 2033. 
This will render many current meters obsolete, requiring upgrades by engineers.
The meters transmit data to a national network via “communications hubs”. In Wales and central and southern England, they use 2G and 3G mobile networks. The Government has confirmed these networks will be phased out. 

And from here:

smartme said:

2G and 3G networks to close by 2033
The government and UK mobile network operators have agreed to phase out 2G and 3G mobile networks by 2033 in order to free up bandwidth for 5G and future 6G services. This includes Telefónica (O2) who provide the Smart Meter communications for the Central and Southern regions of the UK.

This change will require the replacement of communications hubs on the Smart Electricity Meters in the Central and Southern regions of the UK. To this end the DCC plan to have 4G single band Communications Hubs available in 2023, with dual band to follow in Q2 2024.

So they are planning to swap out the comms hub before the end date.

From: https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

[AyBee]

Megaflow said:

AyBee said:

Megaflow said:

We all know the first generation of smart meters were only useful while still connected to the original supplier. Well, it looks like the second generation of meters, using ‘the internet of things’ or the old 2G phone network, might not have much more life in them as the government plan to phase 2G out.

https://apple.news/AvaaBUFTVRhC9j3rJYdlqvQ

All you've proved with that comment is that you can't actually read.

How is that, when the article literally says:

Telegraph said:

Another issue is that many existing devices will need to be upgraded, after the Government and mobile phone providers announced plans to phase out the networks used by existing devices by 2033. 
This will render many current meters obsolete, requiring upgrades by engineers.
The meters transmit data to a national network via “communications hubs”. In Wales and central and southern England, they use 2G and 3G mobile networks. The Government has confirmed these networks will be phased out. 

The whole article is talking about first generation smart meters. Second generation smart meters don't have communication hubs.

[brman]

AyBee said:

Megaflow said:

AyBee said:

Megaflow said:

We all know the first generation of smart meters were only useful while still connected to the original supplier. Well, it looks like the second generation of meters, using ‘the internet of things’ or the old 2G phone network, might not have much more life in them as the government plan to phase 2G out.

https://apple.news/AvaaBUFTVRhC9j3rJYdlqvQ

All you've proved with that comment is that you can't actually read.

How is that, when the article literally says:

Telegraph said:

Another issue is that many existing devices will need to be upgraded, after the Government and mobile phone providers announced plans to phase out the networks used by existing devices by 2033. 
This will render many current meters obsolete, requiring upgrades by engineers.
The meters transmit data to a national network via “communications hubs”. In Wales and central and southern England, they use 2G and 3G mobile networks. The Government has confirmed these networks will be phased out. 

The whole article is talking about first generation smart meters. Second generation smart meters don't have communication hubs.

I thought that, in central/south UK, telefonica were using their 2G/3G network for the comms network? I understand that individual SMETS2 meters can use a mesh network (generally to fill coverage gaps?) but at least some will need upgrading to act as connections from the WAN to the DCC? Although I guess telefonica could then add in some seperate access points to act as the mesh to DCC bridge.
Have I got this wrong?

Regardless, I agree, not the big issue that article is suggesting.

[Megaflow]

AyBee said:

Megaflow said:

AyBee said:

Megaflow said:

We all know the first generation of smart meters were only useful while still connected to the original supplier. Well, it looks like the second generation of meters, using ‘the internet of things’ or the old 2G phone network, might not have much more life in them as the government plan to phase 2G out.

https://apple.news/AvaaBUFTVRhC9j3rJYdlqvQ

All you've proved with that comment is that you can't actually read.

How is that, when the article literally says:

Telegraph said:

Another issue is that many existing devices will need to be upgraded, after the Government and mobile phone providers announced plans to phase out the networks used by existing devices by 2033. 
This will render many current meters obsolete, requiring upgrades by engineers.
The meters transmit data to a national network via “communications hubs”. In Wales and central and southern England, they use 2G and 3G mobile networks. The Government has confirmed these networks will be phased out. 

The whole article is talking about first generation smart meters. Second generation smart meters don't have communication hubs.

That is not how it read to me. But I shall be the bigger man and not resort to petty childish insults.

[Drumroll]

My first-generation smart Meter (provided by British Gas) has just this month become a smart meter again with Bulb.

[Road2Ruin]

Drumroll said:

My first-generation smart Meter (provided by British Gas) has just this month become a smart meter again with Bulb.

They are all being changed this year with some kind of software update over the air.

[monkfish1]

Ive resisted any smart meters up to now. But how do they work if there is no signal to transmit data?

[BryanC]

monkfish1 said:

Ive resisted any smart meters up to now. But how do they work if there is no signal to transmit data?

A very good video on YouTube explains all.

[brman]

BryanC said:

A very good video on YouTube explains all.

that just links to a picture. This is what you wanted : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G32NYQpvy8Q&ab...
although there is a lot of speculation in there and not a lot of real information.

[brman]

monkfish1 said:

Ive resisted any smart meters up to now. But how do they work if there is no signal to transmit data?

Do you mean when it is out of range of any radio network? As I understand it, two things that can happen.
1) Individual meters link up in a wireless mesh, creating a local network. As long as one meter in the mesh can connect to the provider (actually the DCC who then pass the info on to your provider) then all is good. This assumes you have near enough neighbours (with smart meters) to connect to this mesh.
2) It turns into a good old dumb meter. You have to supply monthly readings as you do now.

[monkfish1]

brman said:

monkfish1 said:

Ive resisted any smart meters up to now. But how do they work if there is no signal to transmit data?

Do you mean when it is out of range of any radio network? As I understand it, two things that can happen.
1) Individual meters link up in a wireless mesh, creating a local network. As long as one meter in the mesh can connect to the provider (actually the DCC who then pass the info on to your provider) then all is good. This assumes you have near enough neighbours (with smart meters) to connect to this mesh.
2) It turns into a good old dumb meter. You have to supply monthly readings as you do now.

So, if there no signal, no near neighbours with one, then basically it cant work?

Wonder how they will deal with that. Charge them more i guess?

[brman]

monkfish1 said:

brman said:

monkfish1 said:

Ive resisted any smart meters up to now. But how do they work if there is no signal to transmit data?

Do you mean when it is out of range of any radio network? As I understand it, two things that can happen.
1) Individual meters link up in a wireless mesh, creating a local network. As long as one meter in the mesh can connect to the provider (actually the DCC who then pass the info on to your provider) then all is good. This assumes you have near enough neighbours (with smart meters) to connect to this mesh.
2) It turns into a good old dumb meter. You have to supply monthly readings as you do now.

So, if there no signal, no near neighbours with one, then basically it cant work?

Wonder how they will deal with that. Charge them more i guess?

Just put you on the same tariff as you would have got if you and stayed with a non-smart meter. (eg what I am on now! )

[wombleh]

AyBee said:

The number of times I catch my washing machine catching fire, I'm glad it only goes on during the day! People who worry that much, sleep very lightly or don't have very good dishwashers will just need to pay more for running them during the day.

Why does the solution have to be one or the other? Why can't it be both?

Mr W does have a good point there; washing machines, dryers and dishwashers are a big cause of home fires and advice has been not to run them overnight. That's based on evidence rather than peoples perceptions, encouraging people to move that overnight is increasing risk and will result in harm.

Local storage might be a better answer to that one, charge the battery via a smart inverter when demand is low and use that to run appliances whenever needed. The danger is that only those with money can afford to use appliances safely, so needs some careful thought as to how to fund/implement.

[Gladers01]

wombleh said:

AyBee said:

The number of times I catch my washing machine catching fire, I'm glad it only goes on during the day! People who worry that much, sleep very lightly or don't have very good dishwashers will just need to pay more for running them during the day.

Why does the solution have to be one or the other? Why can't it be both?

Mr W does have a good point there; washing machines, dryers and dishwashers are a big cause of home fires and advice has been not to run them overnight. That's based on evidence rather than peoples perceptions, encouraging people to move that overnight is increasing risk and will result in harm.

Local storage might be a better answer to that one, charge the battery via a smart inverter when demand is low and use that to run appliances whenever needed. The danger is that only those with money can afford to use appliances safely, so needs some careful thought as to how to fund/implement.

When i used to repair domestic appliances one or two a week was the average for washer/dryer combos going up in smoke, the manufacturer is still in business today under a different guise, would have to deal with the aftermath, carnage and irate young housewives (it was hell )

The Grenfell disaster was started by a fridge/freezer that overheated, would be very wary of leaving washer/dryers on overnight unattended for the sake of saving a few pence

[Road2Ruin]

Gladers01 said:

When i used to repair domestic appliances one or two a week was the average for washer/dryer combos going up in smoke, the manufacturer is still in business today under a different guise, would have to deal with the aftermath, carnage and irate young housewives (it was hell )

The Grenfell disaster was started by a fridge/freezer that overheated, would be very wary of leaving washer/dryers on overnight unattended for the sake of saving a few pence

Are you trying to imply we should all turn our fridge freezers off at night now, with the last comment?

[shalmaneser]

Road2Ruin said:

Gladers01 said:

When i used to repair domestic appliances one or two a week was the average for washer/dryer combos going up in smoke, the manufacturer is still in business today under a different guise, would have to deal with the aftermath, carnage and irate young housewives (it was hell )

The Grenfell disaster was started by a fridge/freezer that overheated, would be very wary of leaving washer/dryers on overnight unattended for the sake of saving a few pence

Are you trying to imply we should all turn our fridge freezers off at night now, with the last comment?

Haven't you heard they're very dangerous to be left on young housewives something something we're all going to die in housefires if we use our washing machines overnight?

[AyBee]

Gladers01 said:

wombleh said:

AyBee said:

The number of times I catch my washing machine catching fire, I'm glad it only goes on during the day! People who worry that much, sleep very lightly or don't have very good dishwashers will just need to pay more for running them during the day.

Why does the solution have to be one or the other? Why can't it be both?

Mr W does have a good point there; washing machines, dryers and dishwashers are a big cause of home fires and advice has been not to run them overnight. That's based on evidence rather than peoples perceptions, encouraging people to move that overnight is increasing risk and will result in harm.

Local storage might be a better answer to that one, charge the battery via a smart inverter when demand is low and use that to run appliances whenever needed. The danger is that only those with money can afford to use appliances safely, so needs some careful thought as to how to fund/implement.

When i used to repair domestic appliances one or two a week was the average for washer/dryer combos going up in smoke, the manufacturer is still in business today under a different guise, would have to deal with the aftermath, carnage and irate young housewives (it was hell )

The Grenfell disaster was started by a fridge/freezer that overheated, would be very wary of leaving washer/dryers on overnight unattended for the sake of saving a few pence

Out of interest, what was the main cause? Poor upkeep, overloading, not cleaning them out or just dodgy manufacturing? No idea how old my washing machine is, but if I was worried about it going up in flames, there are still off-peak times that it can be moved to when I'd be awake that would make your bills cheaper.

[Gladers01]

AyBee said:

Gladers01 said:

wombleh said:

AyBee said:

The number of times I catch my washing machine catching fire, I'm glad it only goes on during the day! People who worry that much, sleep very lightly or don't have very good dishwashers will just need to pay more for running them during the day.

Why does the solution have to be one or the other? Why can't it be both?

Mr W does have a good point there; washing machines, dryers and dishwashers are a big cause of home fires and advice has been not to run them overnight. That's based on evidence rather than peoples perceptions, encouraging people to move that overnight is increasing risk and will result in harm.

Local storage might be a better answer to that one, charge the battery via a smart inverter when demand is low and use that to run appliances whenever needed. The danger is that only those with money can afford to use appliances safely, so needs some careful thought as to how to fund/implement.

When i used to repair domestic appliances one or two a week was the average for washer/dryer combos going up in smoke, the manufacturer is still in business today under a different guise, would have to deal with the aftermath, carnage and irate young housewives (it was hell )

The Grenfell disaster was started by a fridge/freezer that overheated, would be very wary of leaving washer/dryers on overnight unattended for the sake of saving a few pence

Out of interest, what was the main cause? Poor upkeep, overloading, not cleaning them out or just dodgy manufacturing? No idea how old my washing machine is, but if I was worried about it going up in flames, there are still off-peak times that it can be moved to when I'd be awake that would make your bills cheaper.

The main cause was dodgy manufacturing/design issues and not customer neglect, some of the appliances were less than one year old and still under warranty, others are still awaiting remedial work going back many years, the recall notices can be checked online using the manufacturers name if you are unduly concerned.

When it comes to buying white goods vote with your wallet and buy the best you can afford, some of the economy brands will only last 3 years and become noisy or unreliable, the more expensive brands will last in excess of 8+ years and give good long term service, my personal preference is Miele