Solar PV - economics?
Discussion
gfreeman said:
Standing charge of 24.11p is subject to a whopping increase of 19.28p per day!!!
Off topic, but why can they justify an increase like that on standing charge? The cost of maintaining cables will (at worst) be associated with RPI, not the cost of the energy running through them. Traffic said:
2Btoo said:
Sounding good, but how much did that £325 saving cost you?
Total investment was about £18K so not a bad amount to have shaved off of my electricity bill for just the month of March!2Btoo said:
Off topic, but why can they justify an increase like that on standing charge? The cost of maintaining cables will (at worst) be associated with RPI, not the cost of the energy running through them.
Standing charge increase is to cover costs associated with transferring customers of the various failed energy companies.2Btoo said:
Off topic, but why can they justify an increase like that on standing charge? The cost of maintaining cables will (at worst) be associated with RPI, not the cost of the energy running through them.
I suspect they will now say that's it because they'll have to increase their renewable investment but the reality is that it's because it's not capped as rigorously by Ofgem. However, as vendors they'll be making good money selling what they pre-bought but losing on what they are buying now and if they book unpalatable profits they will definitely get a windfall tax. I suspect that spiking their standing charge will come back to bite them.
DonkeyApple said:
What happens to the excess in summer? Surely if you can almost cover your bill in March you'll have tonnes of excess when producing more in summer but not using it?
I sell most of what I make, in March is sold £300 roughly. I also used a good percentage on top of that.(In Sweden)
Traffic said:
DonkeyApple said:
What happens to the excess in summer? Surely if you can almost cover your bill in March you'll have tonnes of excess when producing more in summer but not using it?
I sell most of what I make, in March is sold £300 roughly. I also used a good percentage on top of that.(In Sweden)
Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
DonkeyApple said:
In the U.K. the SEG pays between 1 and 7p with the norm being about 4p. So you don't really want to fork out thousands to end up with an excess.
Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
We have a different system here in Sweden, one the UK should move to. I sell my excess at spot price minus 3% and buy my electric at spot price +3% Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
The money I make in surplus is banked with the electricity company and then any winter bills that come through will eat into this. I can withdraw the money too if I like.
I doubt I will have much of an energy bill going forward, or it will be peanuts compared to what it used to be. One winter I got a bill for £600 for one month!!
Traffic said:
DonkeyApple said:
In the U.K. the SEG pays between 1 and 7p with the norm being about 4p. So you don't really want to fork out thousands to end up with an excess.
Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
We have a different system here in Sweden, one the UK should move to. I sell my excess at spot price minus 3% and buy my electric at spot price +3% Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
The money I make in surplus is banked with the electricity company and then any winter bills that come through will eat into this. I can withdraw the money too if I like.
I doubt I will have much of an energy bill going forward, or it will be peanuts compared to what it used to be. One winter I got a bill for £600 for one month!!
Dedshott said:
It's a solar based thread bump!
So - I signed up for a council run auction scheme to find the best bid for solar panel installation.
The results are in, and we have been quoted £5320 to supply and install 10 Solar PV panels.
They estimate 3274 kWh generated in a year.
For an additional £2137 I can install a 3.2 kWh battery.
What I am trying to work out is, with the huge rise in energy bills, is now a good time to get them fitted, or will they never break even. Anyone got any experiences they would like to share...
I have just signed up for 14 panels (4878kWh), 5KW battery, Solis dual 5000 inverter, 2 Tigo optimisers, Iddi solar immersion, price includes warranties, all scaffolding, installation & new smart meters, DNO approval required again company sorting this as well.So - I signed up for a council run auction scheme to find the best bid for solar panel installation.
The results are in, and we have been quoted £5320 to supply and install 10 Solar PV panels.
They estimate 3274 kWh generated in a year.
For an additional £2137 I can install a 3.2 kWh battery.
What I am trying to work out is, with the huge rise in energy bills, is now a good time to get them fitted, or will they never break even. Anyone got any experiences they would like to share...
£9600 - even has a 36m 0% option if needed.
Had option for £6k solar only but battery suited our needs.
DonkeyApple said:
In the U.K. the SEG pays between 1 and 7p with the norm being about 4p. So you don't really want to fork out thousands to end up with an excess.
Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
Octopus Outgoing Agile has been paying an average of 20p/kWh recently. You have to have Octopus as your supplier, and it's not allowed with Octopus Go (and possibly other supply tariffs).Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
It's a step but it's still financial engineering. Obviously best rates are when a household has the least excess to sell and when you have to buy you're locked to them and they have a 20% mark up on the industry average so as to recoup the premium they paid you when buying.
Ultimately, they're running a book against the clients which means somewhere in the small print as well as buying at a big mark-up while being limited on the sale price at key moments chosen by all the usage data they collected when offering 7.5p there will be a cap on how much they'll buy off you. House always wins or house shuts down.
To know if you can game it to be better off requires knowing far more data than your average punter who's been flogged solar panels can muster.
. There will be some user types who can genuinely benefit but it'll be tiny.
Ultimately, they're running a book against the clients which means somewhere in the small print as well as buying at a big mark-up while being limited on the sale price at key moments chosen by all the usage data they collected when offering 7.5p there will be a cap on how much they'll buy off you. House always wins or house shuts down.
To know if you can game it to be better off requires knowing far more data than your average punter who's been flogged solar panels can muster.
. There will be some user types who can genuinely benefit but it'll be tiny. I really didn't understand the economics until I looked at it for my manufacturing clients. It all boils down to whether you'll use a significant proportion of the electricity you generate. Personally at home it would be too much of a faff setting appliances to run in the day, streamline the load etc to get payback in 5 years. However I've just run the figures for my office and it'll pay for itself in 4 years.
DonkeyApple said:
In the U.K. the SEG pays between 1 and 7p with the norm being about 4p. So you don't really want to fork out thousands to end up with an excess.
Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
Define "fair price". Prices during summer are very low during periods of high solar output, quite often lower then the middle of the night. Winter at 5pm is the most expensive time of the year. Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
In an ideal world you'd generate and sell all Summer to create 1:1 credits to then use in winter. Buying at 30p but only able to sell at 3p cripples any set up.
It would be very unprofitable for the energy companies to buy power at the cheapest point of the year and sell power at the most expensive point of the year at flat.
2Btoo said:
Off topic, but why can they justify an increase like that on standing charge? The cost of maintaining cables will (at worst) be associated with RPI, not the cost of the energy running through them.
Mostly the increase is the cost of rescuing failed companies. The bill for Bulb alone is about £3bn and rising. There are 24 other companies which went bust too, and all of that goes into the standing charge. MaxFromage said:
I really didn't understand the economics until I looked at it for my manufacturing clients. It all boils down to whether you'll use a significant proportion of the electricity you generate. Personally at home it would be too much of a faff setting appliances to run in the day, streamline the load etc to get payback in 5 years. However I've just run the figures for my office and it'll pay for itself in 4 years.
I do work from home - and always have. I'm a writer, and rarely need to be elsewhere to work, so it may be worth it. I just don't know. Also trying to work out of this is good deal or not! Since November I have 8.9 kw of panels and a powerwall, awaiting delivery of the 2nd pw. Fortunately we have great roof space, south facing and unshaded, peak kwh production so far has been 8.7kwh.
In march the panels generated 875kwh, and we use nearly all the power (maybe 1 or 2 kwh back to the grid in a month). At 28p kwh (from April) thats £245 (£166 pre price increase). April is at 350 kwh already and its been a below par month for solar so far, I am conservatively expecting around 1000kwh (av 32kwh a day), so around £280 saving, and we use it all. Summer should see even more, obviously winter is terrible. If I average £200 saving per month across the year thats £2400. So far the cost is around £20k, so not a bad return on the investment. As we also run 2 EVs the cost savings v diesel/petrol are even better as they mostly charged during peak solar.
As others have said you really need to be using the electricity you generate, selling back to the grid on SEG is a waste.
In terms of cost, rough rule of thumb I find is £1k = 1 kwh of PV installed (3 panels).
In march the panels generated 875kwh, and we use nearly all the power (maybe 1 or 2 kwh back to the grid in a month). At 28p kwh (from April) thats £245 (£166 pre price increase). April is at 350 kwh already and its been a below par month for solar so far, I am conservatively expecting around 1000kwh (av 32kwh a day), so around £280 saving, and we use it all. Summer should see even more, obviously winter is terrible. If I average £200 saving per month across the year thats £2400. So far the cost is around £20k, so not a bad return on the investment. As we also run 2 EVs the cost savings v diesel/petrol are even better as they mostly charged during peak solar.
As others have said you really need to be using the electricity you generate, selling back to the grid on SEG is a waste.
In terms of cost, rough rule of thumb I find is £1k = 1 kwh of PV installed (3 panels).
DonkeyApple said:
Not being able to get a fair price for what you generate is a big part of the problem. You get most of your solar in the summer but then you aren't likely to be running your heating so need very little power. Get to winter and you're caning the consumption but not getting much from the panels.
Lots of excess solar in the summer is a good excuse to install air-con!Dedshott said:
It's a solar based thread bump!
I have recently moved into a new house, and it's been difficult trying to work out exactly how much these bills are going to cost - a bigger house than I am used to, and I would love to try and reduce bills a bit - even with a huge outlay.
So - I signed up for a council run auction scheme to find the best bid for solar panel installation.
The results are in, and we have been quoted £5320 to supply and install 10 Solar PV panels.
They estimate 3274 kWh generated in a year.
For an additional £2137 I can install a 3.2 kWh battery.
What I am trying to work out is, with the huge rise in energy bills, is now a good time to get them fitted, or will they never break even. Anyone got any experiences they would like to share...
It's an FAQ. FAQs are here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...I have recently moved into a new house, and it's been difficult trying to work out exactly how much these bills are going to cost - a bigger house than I am used to, and I would love to try and reduce bills a bit - even with a huge outlay.
So - I signed up for a council run auction scheme to find the best bid for solar panel installation.
The results are in, and we have been quoted £5320 to supply and install 10 Solar PV panels.
They estimate 3274 kWh generated in a year.
For an additional £2137 I can install a 3.2 kWh battery.
What I am trying to work out is, with the huge rise in energy bills, is now a good time to get them fitted, or will they never break even. Anyone got any experiences they would like to share...
Traffic said:
We have a different system here in Sweden.
You post up the same stuff on every solar panel/renewable energy thread. It's a UK forum, 99% of posters are in the UK.We don't give a toss what happens to you in Sweden, it's irrelevant and I don't know why you keep pushing it.
Evoluzione said:
You post up the same stuff on every solar panel/renewable energy thread. It's a UK forum, 99% of posters are in the UK.
We don't give a toss what happens to you in Sweden, it's irrelevant and I don't know why you keep pushing it.
Charming, where does it say it's a UK ONLY forum. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it.We don't give a toss what happens to you in Sweden, it's irrelevant and I don't know why you keep pushing it.
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