Future proofing for ASHP
Discussion
No new boiler sales from 2035. And who knows what tricks any govt at or around the time will play with gas tax.
With this in mind, I'm probably going to get a normal gas boiler when I refurbish next year but want to future proof so that minimal digging up is needed when ahsp become a (possible) necessity.
Ahsp will need a tank for hot water which I'll have.
Most of the heating will be under floor
And hopefully where there are wall radiators, I'll be able to replace with bigger ones when needed using existing pipework.
But getting the heat from the ashp into the house is presumably via a pipe of some description? Same as a boiler? Two cold pipes in and two out?
I can't find any definitive information about this and would be most grateful for any insights
Thank you
With this in mind, I'm probably going to get a normal gas boiler when I refurbish next year but want to future proof so that minimal digging up is needed when ahsp become a (possible) necessity.
Ahsp will need a tank for hot water which I'll have.
Most of the heating will be under floor
And hopefully where there are wall radiators, I'll be able to replace with bigger ones when needed using existing pipework.
But getting the heat from the ashp into the house is presumably via a pipe of some description? Same as a boiler? Two cold pipes in and two out?
I can't find any definitive information about this and would be most grateful for any insights
Thank you
It's not the pipework you want to worry about, a couple of 28mm pipes isn't going to cause anyone any problems...
What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
EDE 7N said:
It's not the pipework you want to worry about, a couple of 28mm pipes isn't going to cause anyone any problems...
What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
I’ve got ASHP in my 1890 built house, works fine if all components sized correctly.What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
To the OP, you may need to change out your hot water cylinder for one suitable for operating at lower flow temps (they have a larger primary heat exchanger), unless you plan on using one of the high temp heat pumps.
EDE 7N said:
It's not the pipework you want to worry about, a couple of 28mm pipes isn't going to cause anyone any problems...
What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
ThanksWhat you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
I'm sure parts will remain available but I don't trust any govt not to put some levy on gas in the name of the environment and truly f
k a load of people up and down the country. You might think this will be a vote loser but look at Boris in the polls at the moment..I'm definitely going to do what I reasonably can in terms of insulating my 1920s semi. I'm adding insulation to existing outward facing walls, new walls will be cavity walls and will do as much as is practical in loft which I'm not building in.
I’m going to wait, just incase any other technologies emerge like hydrogen which has been spoken about or just an improvement in ASHP technology.
One thing that is for certain is that people are sleep walking into this policy without fully understanding what it’s going to cost them.
One thing that is for certain is that people are sleep walking into this policy without fully understanding what it’s going to cost them.
Edited by Tlandcruiser on Sunday 17th October 10:25
Have just finished an ASHP installation in a mid-1850s stone cottage, albeit one fully renovated and insulated with UFH. I’ll create a thread if anyone’s interested but it has been an ordeal tbh with a lot of teething troubles, however I’m really pleased with it now it seems to be working.
In terms of future proofing I would:
a) Insulate within an inch of the house’s life, absolutely everywhere.
b) Draught proof everything (brush seals around windows/doors etc, get closable vents for air bricks).
c) Fit UFH downstairs and oversized rads upstairs.
In terms of future proofing I would:
a) Insulate within an inch of the house’s life, absolutely everywhere.
b) Draught proof everything (brush seals around windows/doors etc, get closable vents for air bricks).
c) Fit UFH downstairs and oversized rads upstairs.
gareth h said:
EDE 7N said:
It's not the pipework you want to worry about, a couple of 28mm pipes isn't going to cause anyone any problems...
What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
I’ve got ASHP in my 1890 built house, works fine if all components sized correctly.What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
EDE 7N said:
gareth h said:
EDE 7N said:
It's not the pipework you want to worry about, a couple of 28mm pipes isn't going to cause anyone any problems...
What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
I’ve got ASHP in my 1890 built house, works fine if all components sized correctly.What you need to consider is the thermal losses of your house if ASHP or GSHP are a consideration for the future, I simply won't entertain them unless I'm installing in a new build where the insulation and air losses can be calculated to make it work.
It's these reasons why I suspect every house having some form of heat pump in the UK is in reality never going to happen-you simply can't efficiently re-build a house to make it work.
Even my property, built after 2000 with the improved insulation that brought would really need rebuilt to make it work.
If you can still buy a gas replacement boiler (or any fossil fuel boiler) in 2035 and with parts support meaning that could last into 2050+ I can't see it being something to worry about on existing properties in my lifetime.
Skyedriver said:
ASHP along with correctly sized tank & radiators all professionally installed in a 1999 bungalow
Quite happy with the outcome.
Cost just less than £5k as the Scottish Govt offered a £10k loan which we pay back with our RHI payments.
The Scots have been way ahead of the game for years, even now what you need to do north of the border far exceeds England and will stand their housing stock in good steed for the future.Quite happy with the outcome.
Cost just less than £5k as the Scottish Govt offered a £10k loan which we pay back with our RHI payments.
Siko said:
Have just finished an ASHP installation in a mid-1850s stone cottage, albeit one fully renovated and insulated with UFH. I’ll create a thread if anyone’s interested but it has been an ordeal tbh with a lot of teething troubles, however I’m really pleased with it now it seems to be working.
In terms of future proofing I would:
a) Insulate within an inch of the house’s life, absolutely everywhere.
b) Draught proof everything (brush seals around windows/doors etc, get closable vents for air bricks).
c) Fit UFH downstairs and oversized rads upstairs.
Genuine question. If you close an air vent, are you not defeating the purpose of the air brick as it was intended?In terms of future proofing I would:
a) Insulate within an inch of the house’s life, absolutely everywhere.
b) Draught proof everything (brush seals around windows/doors etc, get closable vents for air bricks).
c) Fit UFH downstairs and oversized rads upstairs.
Mine's a 1920s semi. I'll find out more about insulation, but I'm keen not to choke the house. I've read a little about not allowing the house to breathe and the negative effects of this. What sort of stuff is an absolute no no to prevent the house from not being able to breathe ?
Skyedriver said:
ASHP along with correctly sized tank & radiators all professionally installed in a 1999 bungalow
Quite happy with the outcome.
Cost just less than £5k as the Scottish Govt offered a £10k loan which we pay back with our RHI payments.
As you'll pay back the loan, is the total cost to you £15K?Quite happy with the outcome.
Cost just less than £5k as the Scottish Govt offered a £10k loan which we pay back with our RHI payments.
We await the onslaught of door-to-door ASHP fitting bandits... rich pickings no doubt.
MrJuice said:
Siko said:
Have just finished an ASHP installation in a mid-1850s stone cottage, albeit one fully renovated and insulated with UFH. I’ll create a thread if anyone’s interested but it has been an ordeal tbh with a lot of teething troubles, however I’m really pleased with it now it seems to be working.
In terms of future proofing I would:
a) Insulate within an inch of the house’s life, absolutely everywhere.
b) Draught proof everything (brush seals around windows/doors etc, get closable vents for air bricks).
c) Fit UFH downstairs and oversized rads upstairs.
Genuine question. If you close an air vent, are you not defeating the purpose of the air brick as it was intended?In terms of future proofing I would:
a) Insulate within an inch of the house’s life, absolutely everywhere.
b) Draught proof everything (brush seals around windows/doors etc, get closable vents for air bricks).
c) Fit UFH downstairs and oversized rads upstairs.
Mine's a 1920s semi. I'll find out more about insulation, but I'm keen not to choke the house. I've read a little about not allowing the house to breathe and the negative effects of this. What sort of stuff is an absolute no no to prevent the house from not being able to breathe ?
MrJuice said:
Genuine question. If you close an air vent, are you not defeating the purpose of the air brick as it was intended?
Mine's a 1920s semi. I'll find out more about insulation, but I'm keen not to choke the house. I've read a little about not allowing the house to breathe and the negative effects of this. What sort of stuff is an absolute no no to prevent the house from not being able to breathe ?
Yes of course that’s correct if you are using the logburner, but next to my main logburner (a huge double door oversized thing installed by the previous owner) we have 3 air bricks which are all essentially about 5” wide pipes direct to the outside. You may as well have a window open next to the logburner tbh and when it is really cold there was a huge draft through them. Mine's a 1920s semi. I'll find out more about insulation, but I'm keen not to choke the house. I've read a little about not allowing the house to breathe and the negative effects of this. What sort of stuff is an absolute no no to prevent the house from not being able to breathe ?
We tolerated them because that logburner was always on in the winter months and it got so hot there a bit of fresh air wasn’t a bad thing. Now we are planning to use the ASHP for the vast majority of our heating there is no need to have 3 wide open air bricks going full pelt!
EDE 7N said:
The Scots have been way ahead of the game for years, even now what you need to do north of the border far exceeds England and will stand their housing stock in good steed for the future.
Well the current English system is still pretty good (granted it ends in March), our installation cost £15.5k ish and I applied online for the RHI last week and got an almost instant response confirming it was successful (not what I was expecting). I get back just over £11k, so to rip out an awful thermal store/logburner system and replace with a brand new ASHP, some new rads (upstairs) and a load of wireless networked Heatmiser thermostats will cost around £4.5k with the RHI taken off. I gather the new grant thing is circa £5k instead from April but I think there’s a lot of wiggle room to come down price wise on ASHP…because the RHI is so generous we swallow the high install costs without a peep, but with the new grant thing I would bet a decent sum that install costs will naturally fall too…Just as a question as I’ve never understood it.
Why does the uk not just jacket insulate houses like the Europeans?
Our house in Austria (and seemingly everyone else’s here) is brick with polystyrene on the outside all over and then rendered. Means no insulation gaps or cold spots anywhere. The house is never damp, and the air circulation seems perfect. This is a 20 year old house. Outside temps here range from -20 in winter to +40 in summer.
Why does the uk not just jacket insulate houses like the Europeans?
Our house in Austria (and seemingly everyone else’s here) is brick with polystyrene on the outside all over and then rendered. Means no insulation gaps or cold spots anywhere. The house is never damp, and the air circulation seems perfect. This is a 20 year old house. Outside temps here range from -20 in winter to +40 in summer.
bulldong said:
Just as a question as I’ve never understood it.
Why does the uk not just jacket insulate houses like the Europeans?
Our house in Austria (and seemingly everyone else’s here) is brick with polystyrene on the outside all over and then rendered. Means no insulation gaps or cold spots anywhere. The house is never damp, and the air circulation seems perfect. This is a 20 year old house. Outside temps here range from -20 in winter to +40 in summer.
Largely because we're so up ourselves over heritage; our Planning system likes to see 'traditional' local materials and detailing, with regional variation. There are large areas of the UK where render - especially where applied to more than just the occasional plot - is not seen as part of the vernacular.Why does the uk not just jacket insulate houses like the Europeans?
Our house in Austria (and seemingly everyone else’s here) is brick with polystyrene on the outside all over and then rendered. Means no insulation gaps or cold spots anywhere. The house is never damp, and the air circulation seems perfect. This is a 20 year old house. Outside temps here range from -20 in winter to +40 in summer.
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