Ask an Electrician anything...
Discussion
Humpy D said:
Went round the mother in law's vacant house yesterday only to discover a big leak from the loft with water coming through the ceilings! Turned off both the water supply and electrics and have a plumber coming next week to fix the leak but do I need to get an electrician in to check everything before turning the power back on or should it be safe for me to do this?
A big leak... id get a sparkie in to do a quick check... meger it out and make sure there is no issue or the wiring isnt damp.ruggedscotty said:
Humpy D said:
Went round the mother in law's vacant house yesterday only to discover a big leak from the loft with water coming through the ceilings! Turned off both the water supply and electrics and have a plumber coming next week to fix the leak but do I need to get an electrician in to check everything before turning the power back on or should it be safe for me to do this?
A big leak... id get a sparkie in to do a quick check... meger it out and make sure there is no issue or the wiring isnt damp.Humpy D said:
ruggedscotty said:
Humpy D said:
Went round the mother in law's vacant house yesterday only to discover a big leak from the loft with water coming through the ceilings! Turned off both the water supply and electrics and have a plumber coming next week to fix the leak but do I need to get an electrician in to check everything before turning the power back on or should it be safe for me to do this?
A big leak... id get a sparkie in to do a quick check... meger it out and make sure there is no issue or the wiring isnt damp.Hi
We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
Wagonwheel555 said:
Hi
We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
Bit of back ground.... We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
EICR C1 meaning
Starting with the most serious code, EICR C1 indicates that danger is present on your electrical installation. The danger poses a risk of injury to anyone using the installation, meaning that immediate remedial action is required.
An example of a C1 code would be damage that leaves live conductors exposed and accessible. It’s recommended that you don’t use your electrical system until action has been taken. Failure to follow that recommendation could result in serious harm, damage, and costs from both repairs and legal proceedings.
EICR C2 meaning
Taking one step down, EICR C2 means that something on your installation is potentially dangerous. That could be, for instance, a lack of reliable earthing. Over time, that issue could worsen and lead to a shock risk.
As a result, C2 EICR codes require urgent remedial action. You may be able to continue using your system in the meantime, but you should arrange for repairs to be made as soon as you can. Like a C1 code, any issues categorised as C2 will mean the EICR is unsatisfactory until action is taken.
EICR C3 meaning
Moving onto EICR C3, this code means that improvements are recommended for your electrical installation. An example could be wiring that doesn’t meet the latest regulations, but that isn’t a risk in itself.
To be clear, no danger is present and there is no typical sequence of events that could lead to someone accessing live wires. As a result, EICR certificates can still be satisfactory when C3 issues are identified.
All that said, it’s best to have C3 issues rectified to improve the safety of your electrical installation and avoid more expensive issues developing over time.
What about FI?
Finally, there’s FI – which stands for further investigation. This is when the person completing the report notices something amiss that doesn’t necessarily breach the BS 7671 standards, such as a circuit that is not verified at the time of testing.
More specifically, it means further investigation is required without delay. FI codes can be enough to make an EICR unsatisfactory. If lots of circuits aren’t verified, for example, it would be irresponsible for an electrician to deem the installation satisfactory as a whole.
So the issue with the C1 would be that it needs to be resolved or made safe. isolation of the affected part may achieve that etc but you need to be sure that its addressed. there is no prevention from using the installation, but to do so would be considered foolish indeed.
A work in progress is often something that happens, the CU is often replaced first, and with an rcbo on each outgoing circuit gives a marked increase in safety. getting the rest of the installation upgraded ASAP would be the route from then on out. They wont expect you to sit in darkness from ripping out the old CU and replacing it until everything else is completed.
It does sound like a rewire of the house would be a good thing anyways.
Edited by ruggedscotty on Friday 27th January 09:09
Wagonwheel555 said:
Hi
We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
Have you asked him? You don't really code on an install as any issues should be addressed, although the testing process is otherwise similar. Faults are always a potential issue when replacing a cu, an experienced spark should be able to address or implement workarounds for most problems, if an installation looks like it might be a basket case then the preferred route should be an EICR/enhanced EICR before the old fuse box comes out!We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
Teddy Lop said:
Wagonwheel555 said:
Hi
We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
Have you asked him? You don't really code on an install as any issues should be addressed, although the testing process is otherwise similar. Faults are always a potential issue when replacing a cu, an experienced spark should be able to address or implement workarounds for most problems, if an installation looks like it might be a basket case then the preferred route should be an EICR/enhanced EICR before the old fuse box comes out!We are having our kitchen replaced and with the house being 60s built, the builders electrician has come round and said that we need to upgrade the CU as we don't have RCD and the cooker circuit requires it. We also don't have a CPC in the lighting circuit so he will need to run a new one in the kitchen, especially as the downlighters are metal fixtures.
My only concern is that once he replaces the CU with a new one (each circuit will have an RCBO), he then tests it but can't sign it off unless any C1/C2 items are fixed.
What happens if there are C1/C2 items and he can't sign off the board? Obviously I realise those items need to be resolved but what happens in the interim, presumably we can still use the new board?
The house all has PVC cables, red and black colours so fairly old but nothing visibly wrong, no burnt out or damages cables anywhere that I could see. Lighting has no CPC but hardly a deal breaker if we simply don't use any metal fixtures and fittings.
Id be doing an EICR before starting. should really be done. Also changing out that box, its a Part P that is. so notifiable.
Its probably a good idea really to consider a rewire, if these issues are in the kitchen, then probably find that there will be other issues throughout the house that needs to be addressed. Its the usual once you start you find out other issues that need to be resolved.
what your required to do and what you should be doing..... clarity on that one needs to be given.
New build flat - LED downlighters
My daughter is keen on a new build flat by Robertson Homes (Scotland). However, on discussion with the sales rep/site manager she enquired about fitting LED downlighters to the hall, lounge and dining room but was advised that this wasn’t possible due the attic area having the wiring for all the flats below hers. She was also told that should she fit them, she would have to refit the pendants and re-sheet the ceilings in order to meet the fire building regs if she wanted to sell in the future.
This sound all very odd to me as I was of the understanding that fitting fire rated LED downlighters was permitted under the regs?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
My daughter is keen on a new build flat by Robertson Homes (Scotland). However, on discussion with the sales rep/site manager she enquired about fitting LED downlighters to the hall, lounge and dining room but was advised that this wasn’t possible due the attic area having the wiring for all the flats below hers. She was also told that should she fit them, she would have to refit the pendants and re-sheet the ceilings in order to meet the fire building regs if she wanted to sell in the future.
This sound all very odd to me as I was of the understanding that fitting fire rated LED downlighters was permitted under the regs?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
RichB said:
dhutch said:
Downlighters are typically a very poor way to light any room, so she might well be spared a near miss!
I would say that in combination with wall lighting and incidental lighting from table lamps and standard lamps downlighters are very good. If they need three other types of lighting to be ok.
dhutch said:
RichB said:
dhutch said:
Downlighters are typically a very poor way to light any room, so she might well be spared a near miss!
I would say that in combination with wall lighting and incidental lighting from table lamps and standard lamps downlighters are very good. RichB said:
Possibly but I think downlighters an important part of the overall lighting plan. A room is never suitably illuminated with just one form of lighting. Some people spend fortunes on furnishing and then expect a single pendant to light the room.
The big light should never be used in my view. The whole thing about downlighters is actually about psychology and what's natural to humans. There's plenty of properly researched papers out there about this, and you can go to training courses in the lighting design industry and learn this.
At the simplest level, in the natural world the sky is the brightest thing when you're out and about, so it's most natural to humans to have brightness in their upper vision versus what's at eye level of low down. So downlighters (and some other styles of fittings on their own provide illuminated areas low down but a leave a dark ceiling, which is not natural. There's also relationships to how the body produces melatonin, not just the sheer intensity of lighting, but also the style.
Poor office lighting down like this will make employees more tired and depressed through the day. This is why in the late 90s there was a shift in design of suspended tub light fittings which used to have reflected all pointed down to also have some pointing up to bounce some of the light to the ceiling.
In a home environment this means you should balance down lighting with upwards lighting, at least for 'normal' lighting scenarios (ie not 'mood' lighting). You can up light either with dedicated additional fittings, or with different styles of downlighter, or even just with considered use of reflective surfaces to reflect the downlight back up.
This is also why you should paint ceilings with vinyl silk and walls with matt emulsion.
At the simplest level, in the natural world the sky is the brightest thing when you're out and about, so it's most natural to humans to have brightness in their upper vision versus what's at eye level of low down. So downlighters (and some other styles of fittings on their own provide illuminated areas low down but a leave a dark ceiling, which is not natural. There's also relationships to how the body produces melatonin, not just the sheer intensity of lighting, but also the style.
Poor office lighting down like this will make employees more tired and depressed through the day. This is why in the late 90s there was a shift in design of suspended tub light fittings which used to have reflected all pointed down to also have some pointing up to bounce some of the light to the ceiling.
In a home environment this means you should balance down lighting with upwards lighting, at least for 'normal' lighting scenarios (ie not 'mood' lighting). You can up light either with dedicated additional fittings, or with different styles of downlighter, or even just with considered use of reflective surfaces to reflect the downlight back up.
This is also why you should paint ceilings with vinyl silk and walls with matt emulsion.
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