Ask an Electrician anything...
Discussion
guitarcarfanatic said:
I have been in a similar situation (although different layout to you). I filled in the DNO request form for my local DNO and said a remote survey with an EV installer highlighted potential issues (I fibbed a bit here) and mentioned no seal on my fuse as there wasn't one. They came out, checked the fuse etc and gave it a clean bill of health (80amp fuse in the supply). It took them about 24 hours to reply and they booked to visit the next working day. They charge about £240 if you want an isolator fitted though which was a bit chunky!
I then phoned Octopus - they will fit an isolator for free. There was a 5 week delay, so I figured out a different solution with my sparky pal. But call them, and they can check if they have appointments in your area. Otherwise, there is a company called Haste who can do it - a few years back, they charged sub £100 - not sure what it is now.
Your EV installer will then fit henley blocks to split the tails after the meter and will likely fit a mini consumer unit to run the EV installation.
Good point - I hadn't considered the fuse seal was missing. SPEN seem far less keen to come out but will give them a chivvy tomorrow.I then phoned Octopus - they will fit an isolator for free. There was a 5 week delay, so I figured out a different solution with my sparky pal. But call them, and they can check if they have appointments in your area. Otherwise, there is a company called Haste who can do it - a few years back, they charged sub £100 - not sure what it is now.
Your EV installer will then fit henley blocks to split the tails after the meter and will likely fit a mini consumer unit to run the EV installation.
Octopus are doing the EV install and will fit the free isolator and have an install date booked. Current CU is 50% empty so plenty space to do the install inside it... but very little around it!
dhutch said:
Nice wallpaper!
Almost wish they'd left more. It's proper 70s psychedelic orange under the white paper in one room! codenamecueball said:
Anyone got any background on or come across one of these? Is guessing the fuse a stab in the dark?
Old Fluvent service head, likely to be original to the house (1930s), no idea of fuse rating but had fused netural removed at some point and replaced with a join and some rather thin tails which run about 2m up to the meter.
We're getting an EV charger installed and hoping to skip a wasted appointment from the installer and get the DNO out to replace in advance, but they don't care at all and say it's the job of the EV charger installer to tell the DNO if it's not fit for purpose. Octopus say it's up to me to ask the DNO for an upgrade and suggested I could check the fuse rating by getting a spark in to pull it, but that their "trained meter engineers" aren't allowed to touch it?
Meter dates from 2013, no isolator post meter but consumer unit is a 2023 install and appears up to snuff with a fresh EICR, SPD and every ring has a RCBO rather than split load.
Is this a rental or somewhere you have bought?Old Fluvent service head, likely to be original to the house (1930s), no idea of fuse rating but had fused netural removed at some point and replaced with a join and some rather thin tails which run about 2m up to the meter.
We're getting an EV charger installed and hoping to skip a wasted appointment from the installer and get the DNO out to replace in advance, but they don't care at all and say it's the job of the EV charger installer to tell the DNO if it's not fit for purpose. Octopus say it's up to me to ask the DNO for an upgrade and suggested I could check the fuse rating by getting a spark in to pull it, but that their "trained meter engineers" aren't allowed to touch it?
Meter dates from 2013, no isolator post meter but consumer unit is a 2023 install and appears up to snuff with a fresh EICR, SPD and every ring has a RCBO rather than split load.
Looking at the size of the red/black cables compared to the earth, it looks like they are the same size -16mm at a guess which means the supply might only be 60A.
If the board has been changed recently there should be an eic for it ideally, but if you have an eicr the fuse size should be listed on the eicr.
The fuse is in that black holder and would have been pulled to change the DB, well unless someone was feeling brave and did it live. Do not attempt to remove the fuse carrier to check yourself
Edit really don’t like the top of the service head and cloth wrapping of the cable being exposed as they are but I’m not sure what the min standard would be for it
Edited by Yabu on Monday 11th March 21:26
codenamecueball said:
Good point - I hadn't considered the fuse seal was missing. SPEN seem far less keen to come out but will give them a chivvy tomorrow.
Octopus are doing the EV install and will fit the free isolator and have an install date booked. Current CU is 50% empty so plenty space to do the install inside it... but very little around it!
Yes, they should just come and sort it - say the installer has flagged it has the seal broken and needs checking before they are willing to touch it.Octopus are doing the EV install and will fit the free isolator and have an install date booked. Current CU is 50% empty so plenty space to do the install inside it... but very little around it!
In terms of the install, I would be very surprised if they will consider fitting a new circuit in the old consumer unit because it causes them issues in relation to liability if anything else breaks.
It is possible, it will just need to be a relatively new board with either Type A RCD's (up to about 2017, there is a good chance it will have a type AC RCD which would need changing) and availability for a new MCB. Or they might be able to take from the non RCD side of the board by shuffling the circuits up and fitting an RCBO (again, assuming they are available for the existing board).
They bypass all the issues by chucking a new mini consumer unit in for the EV split from the tails. How far is the run? If that's an external wall, they could always pop through the wall and put a separate external sealed EV consumer unit externally if limited space internally (up to 3m limit from the main fuse for this).
If it's a 60amp supply, it's not really a bother - you will just need a CT clamp fitted to monitor load and limit the charging speed if you have something like an oven or shower on at the same time as charging. Most charge points accept are set-up ready, and some even come with one in the box. If your installer uses EV ultra cable or similar, then the feed wiring for it is included in the cable so no extra work to fit.
If I add some insulation to my loft, then board over it, I'll need to move a socket or it will be under the floor level.
Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
spikeyhead said:
If I add some insulation to my loft, then board over it, I'll need to move a socket or it will be under the floor level.
Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
In a loft you may find that there is enough slack cable that you can use to relocate the socket without having to join wires.Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
If the cable doesn't reach the new position then you could also consider relocating the socket to where the cable does reach.
If you extend the cable then use 3 x Wago 221-412 lever connectors to extend Live, Neutral and Earth and secure the connectors inside the existing junction box and get a blanking plate to fit over it. You will then need to get another 2 gang surface mount junction box to fit the relocated socket in.
Take a photo of before and after.
Actual said:
spikeyhead said:
If I add some insulation to my loft, then board over it, I'll need to move a socket or it will be under the floor level.
Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
In a loft you may find that there is enough slack cable that you can use to relocate the socket without having to join wires.Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
If the cable doesn't reach the new position then you could also consider relocating the socket to where the cable does reach.
If you extend the cable then use 3 x Wago 221-412 lever connectors to extend Live, Neutral and Earth and secure the connectors inside the existing junction box and get a blanking plate to fit over it. You will then need to get another 2 gang surface mount junction box to fit the relocated socket in.
Take a photo of before and after.
dhutch said:
Regbuser said:
Neutral to screw thread, live to the... tip.
Else you get a 240vac belt when you touch the exposed screw thread!Or is this mainly a risk on old ones or something?
Also assuming pendants on the loop, the live only gets to the pendant via the switch doesn’t it, so if you turn it off all good? Only neutrals and earths are present?
Not sure on switches on loop, I assume these have same with the live run being switched? Ie, switched off, safe to touch even if threads on ES are wired live?
I’ve not had an ES pendant in bits but I assume on ones you can build up it’s made clear about live/neutral in the fixings?
spikeyhead said:
Actual said:
spikeyhead said:
If I add some insulation to my loft, then board over it, I'll need to move a socket or it will be under the floor level.
Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
In a loft you may find that there is enough slack cable that you can use to relocate the socket without having to join wires.Can I do this myself, will need the cable lengthening, or do I just put an access hole in the flooring or replace it with a junction box and forget about it. It's very rare that I'll ever want power up there.
If the cable doesn't reach the new position then you could also consider relocating the socket to where the cable does reach.
If you extend the cable then use 3 x Wago 221-412 lever connectors to extend Live, Neutral and Earth and secure the connectors inside the existing junction box and get a blanking plate to fit over it. You will then need to get another 2 gang surface mount junction box to fit the relocated socket in.
Take a photo of before and after.
If you are unsure then limit the job to only extending using any slack cable so you don't have to make any joins.
Hello,
I have storage heaters throughout my bungalow. These are wired back to some fuses in a separate fuse box, then wired to an economy 7 timer which has a big dial on the front like something from a second world war bomber, then to the electric meter.
I understand that in a month or so time they will be switching off a radio signal that activates the economy 7 evening switch on and morning switch off.
Can anyone recognise my timer and know if its likely to be affected by the RF switch off? I initially assumed it was a mechanical clock but it dawned on me that in the thirteen years Ive lived here Ive never adjusted it or touched it once, despite multiple power cuts (some lasting over a day) its never lost any time so I thought there must be something else outside keeping it going?
Also, the continual harrassment I get from EOn about needing to have a smart meter fitted - is that like to work with the timer switch and fuse arrangement Ive currently got? I asked them when they have phoned and they never seem to have an answer that everything will stay working as it currently does.
Thanks
I have storage heaters throughout my bungalow. These are wired back to some fuses in a separate fuse box, then wired to an economy 7 timer which has a big dial on the front like something from a second world war bomber, then to the electric meter.
I understand that in a month or so time they will be switching off a radio signal that activates the economy 7 evening switch on and morning switch off.
Can anyone recognise my timer and know if its likely to be affected by the RF switch off? I initially assumed it was a mechanical clock but it dawned on me that in the thirteen years Ive lived here Ive never adjusted it or touched it once, despite multiple power cuts (some lasting over a day) its never lost any time so I thought there must be something else outside keeping it going?
Also, the continual harrassment I get from EOn about needing to have a smart meter fitted - is that like to work with the timer switch and fuse arrangement Ive currently got? I asked them when they have phoned and they never seem to have an answer that everything will stay working as it currently does.
Thanks
ShredderXLE said:
Hello,
I have storage heaters throughout my bungalow. These are wired back to some fuses in a separate fuse box, then wired to an economy 7 timer which has a big dial on the front like something from a second world war bomber, then to the electric meter.
I understand that in a month or so time they will be switching off a radio signal that activates the economy 7 evening switch on and morning switch off.
Can anyone recognise my timer and know if its likely to be affected by the RF switch off? I initially assumed it was a mechanical clock but it dawned on me that in the thirteen years Ive lived here Ive never adjusted it or touched it once, despite multiple power cuts (some lasting over a day) its never lost any time so I thought there must be something else outside keeping it going?
Also, the continual harrassment I get from EOn about needing to have a smart meter fitted - is that like to work with the timer switch and fuse arrangement Ive currently got? I asked them when they have phoned and they never seem to have an answer that everything will stay working as it currently does.
Thanks
Nothing to worry about.I have storage heaters throughout my bungalow. These are wired back to some fuses in a separate fuse box, then wired to an economy 7 timer which has a big dial on the front like something from a second world war bomber, then to the electric meter.
I understand that in a month or so time they will be switching off a radio signal that activates the economy 7 evening switch on and morning switch off.
Can anyone recognise my timer and know if its likely to be affected by the RF switch off? I initially assumed it was a mechanical clock but it dawned on me that in the thirteen years Ive lived here Ive never adjusted it or touched it once, despite multiple power cuts (some lasting over a day) its never lost any time so I thought there must be something else outside keeping it going?
Also, the continual harrassment I get from EOn about needing to have a smart meter fitted - is that like to work with the timer switch and fuse arrangement Ive currently got? I asked them when they have phoned and they never seem to have an answer that everything will stay working as it currently does.
Thanks
You have an analogue clock instead of a radio teleswitch. They have a backup often old enough to be clockwork which is why they don't seemingly lose time in a power cut.
Funny thing is half the ones I see are so far out of time they defeat any point/value whatsoever of the off peak tariff (from the vendors PoV). That's the price of a zero maintenance approach I guess.
Teddy Lop said:
Nothing to worry about.
You have an analogue clock instead of a radio teleswitch. They have a backup often old enough to be clockwork which is why they don't seemingly lose time in a power cut.
Funny thing is half the ones I see are so far out of time they defeat any point/value whatsoever of the off peak tariff (from the vendors PoV). That's the price of a zero maintenance approach I guess.
We had a similar one for many years - was in house when we bought it. It had a spring reserve and would tick loudly if the power was off, but it lost time quite dramatically when on reserve. It was set for 8 hours at low rate but we had to keep an eye on it to see when those 8 hrs were! About once a week the dual rate meter would stick on low for 24 hrs - don’t know if this was an issue with the meter or the clock.You have an analogue clock instead of a radio teleswitch. They have a backup often old enough to be clockwork which is why they don't seemingly lose time in a power cut.
Funny thing is half the ones I see are so far out of time they defeat any point/value whatsoever of the off peak tariff (from the vendors PoV). That's the price of a zero maintenance approach I guess.
When we had the house extended / refurbed and the electrician took the clock away as he assumed we didn’t use it. As E7 got more expensive we were only saving buttons in the end anyway.
Teddy Lop said:
Nothing to worry about.
You have an analogue clock instead of a radio teleswitch. They have a backup often old enough to be clockwork which is why they don't seemingly lose time in a power cut.
Funny thing is half the ones I see are so far out of time they defeat any point/value whatsoever of the off peak tariff (from the vendors PoV). That's the price of a zero maintenance approach I guess.
Brilliant! Thank you for the reply - will leave it all as it is.You have an analogue clock instead of a radio teleswitch. They have a backup often old enough to be clockwork which is why they don't seemingly lose time in a power cut.
Funny thing is half the ones I see are so far out of time they defeat any point/value whatsoever of the off peak tariff (from the vendors PoV). That's the price of a zero maintenance approach I guess.
ShredderXLE said:
I understand that in a month or so time they will be switching off a radio signal that activates the economy 7 evening switch on and morning switch off.
30 June 2025 ?https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/ene...
ShredderXLE said:
Hello,
Also, the continual harrassment I get from EOn about needing to have a smart meter fitted - is that like to work with the timer switch and fuse arrangement Ive currently got? I asked them when they have phoned and they never seem to have an answer that everything will stay working as it currently does.
|https://thumbsnap.com/Ganmcahe[/url]
That timeswitch does two things: It tells the meter which rate to use, and it also sends power to the storage heaters during the off-peak period (tricky to confirm that from the photo)Also, the continual harrassment I get from EOn about needing to have a smart meter fitted - is that like to work with the timer switch and fuse arrangement Ive currently got? I asked them when they have phoned and they never seem to have an answer that everything will stay working as it currently does.
|https://thumbsnap.com/Ganmcahe[/url]All smart meters should handle the dual rates as they have built-in clocks, but you'd need a "five terminal" meter to do the load switching. EOn should be able to sort that.
https://www.itron.com/emea/solutions/product-catal...
dhutch said:
Sounds like its been delayed again! I believe it was originally scheduled for March 23 and the last I'd heared was that this had then been moved to some time in March / April 24.Probably a really basic question but I’ll ask anyway.
I have an outdoor light fitting which is connected to the downstairs lighting circuit (switch in kitchen). I’ve just been given some outdoor string lights that I want to hardwire in, but they have a plug on them.
Can I just chop the plug off and connect/spur it to the outside light connections? Or as it is setup for a plug you can’t do that?
Can’t find a definitive answer on the web.
I have an outdoor light fitting which is connected to the downstairs lighting circuit (switch in kitchen). I’ve just been given some outdoor string lights that I want to hardwire in, but they have a plug on them.
Can I just chop the plug off and connect/spur it to the outside light connections? Or as it is setup for a plug you can’t do that?
Can’t find a definitive answer on the web.
I have an airing cupboard that I would like power to.
Currently in there are 2 fused switches for 2 separate immersion heaters for an unvented tank. Would it be best to spur off a 3 pin socket from one of these switches? The other possible power source is the wiring centre for the CH system.
Thanks
Currently in there are 2 fused switches for 2 separate immersion heaters for an unvented tank. Would it be best to spur off a 3 pin socket from one of these switches? The other possible power source is the wiring centre for the CH system.
Thanks
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