Should older people give up their family homes?
Discussion
monthou said:
DonkeyApple said:
Interestingly, in 2015 the U.K. hit the rather monumental milestone of the average retirement income being greater than the average worker's income for the first time in history.
I had a quick google just because the above sounded very unlikely, and I can't find anything to support it. Any chance of a link?Edited by GR_TVR on Wednesday 17th November 08:19
GR_TVR said:
monthou said:
DonkeyApple said:
Interestingly, in 2015 the U.K. hit the rather monumental milestone of the average retirement income being greater than the average worker's income for the first time in history.
I had a quick google just because the above sounded very unlikely, and I can't find anything to support it. Any chance of a link?Intergenerational commission said:
As ever, we ‘equivalise’ incomes to account for household size. The equivalised incomes given here
are equal
to the non-equivalised incomes for couples with no children, while a higher cash income would be
needed for a larger family and a smaller income for a single adult. We give average incomes after
subtracting housing costs (rents and mortgage interest) to give the best proxy of living standards,
but in this case the results are also similar when we look at incomes before housing costs...
...while typical working-age incomes remain above those of typical pensioner households
before housing costs, after housing costs are accounted for the median pensioner income is now
above its working-age equivalent
So no.are equal
to the non-equivalised incomes for couples with no children, while a higher cash income would be
needed for a larger family and a smaller income for a single adult. We give average incomes after
subtracting housing costs (rents and mortgage interest) to give the best proxy of living standards,
but in this case the results are also similar when we look at incomes before housing costs...
...while typical working-age incomes remain above those of typical pensioner households
before housing costs, after housing costs are accounted for the median pensioner income is now
above its working-age equivalent
It's no surprise that many (not all by any means) pensioners have relatively high disposable income if they've spent a lifetime accumulating wealth. No mortgage or rent, cars paid off, no loans. That's a million miles away from saying 'the average retirement income being greater than the average worker's income.'
Edited by monthou on Wednesday 17th November 08:39
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
soxboy said:
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
The problem with service charges and ground rent now, especially on the more modern developments is that they add up to so much more than you'd ever have to pay on a freehold house of the same size.It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
Paying jointly for maintenance when the building is jointly owned makes sense of course, but I know people who are paying thousands a year in service change to live in new build flats. If you bought a brand new house, maintenance would be a fraction of that.
soxboy said:
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
I'm with him. Especially when you sign a contract that allows that charge to rapidly increase.It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
austinsmirk said:
My report to government noted the london/ rest of the uk difference. Proved little reason to create void stock in the north. However the law has to be UK wide. Hence the big roll out.
Now practically some older people did embrace a chance to move. It was a push they needed with help to do so of course. Personally I’ve probably had my staff move more than 500 older people once as part of a project. But really just those whose homes were worth having. The freed stock i ring fenced direct to homeless families with an actual need: not joe bloggs who fancies a house, kicking about on a housing register.
I think I'm agreeing with you in so far as just charging people extra when you don't give them an option to move makes no sense. The area I had some insight to at the time (Surrey / Sussex) did have a problem with older residents in bigger, emptier homes and families in flats that got somewhat improved by the measures.Now practically some older people did embrace a chance to move. It was a push they needed with help to do so of course. Personally I’ve probably had my staff move more than 500 older people once as part of a project. But really just those whose homes were worth having. The freed stock i ring fenced direct to homeless families with an actual need: not joe bloggs who fancies a house, kicking about on a housing register.
soxboy said:
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
To be fair, he'll likely be paying council tax monthly, and probably utility bills too.It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
If the charge was reasonable, it's pretty easy to offset it against what maintenance of his own place would be - plus there shouldn't be any worries about looking after the fabric. It's the uncertain nature of future charges that is unsettling.
soxboy said:
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
Ground rent can be as little as a peppercorn and often is sub £250.It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
The maintenance charges on many of ours are £800-£1300. If you net off the costs of maintaining your own property and insuring it then its not unreasonable.
Presumably he'd save a fair chunk on his council tax and energy bills to offset a large proportion of this anyway?
bennno said:
Ground rent can be as little as a peppercorn and often is sub £250.
The maintenance charges on many of ours are £800-£1300. If you net off the costs of maintaining your own property and insuring it then its not unreasonable.
Presumably he'd save a fair chunk on his council tax and energy bills to offset a large proportion of this anyway?
I’d not buy a flat - especially if I was older. No outdoor space likely lifts. Also who knows who’s above you with their clip clappetty shoes and noise / tv music etc. The maintenance charges on many of ours are £800-£1300. If you net off the costs of maintaining your own property and insuring it then its not unreasonable.
Presumably he'd save a fair chunk on his council tax and energy bills to offset a large proportion of this anyway?
No garden (or any size) would be so depressing IMHO. Ability to sit outside read a book / fresh air / maybe grow a bit of veg and fruit. Flowers etc it’s pleasing
Oakey said:
hidetheelephants said:
Gary C said:
8k/month ?
Makes you wonder why you can't get live in care at that price.
I plan to get a Philippino to look after me
Makes you wonder why you can't get live in care at that price.
I plan to get a Philippino to look after me
Where's King Herald, if he still posts he might be able to hook you up!
Near me, a restaurant closed and husband and wife sold up, she nicked the money, buggered off back home with another man but now she is in prison for murdering him.
Husband is split between anger and relief !
Sheepshanks said:
soxboy said:
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
To be fair, he'll likely be paying council tax monthly, and probably utility bills too.It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
If the charge was reasonable, it's pretty easy to offset it against what maintenance of his own place would be - plus there shouldn't be any worries about looking after the fabric. It's the uncertain nature of future charges that is unsettling.
It’s probably more a psychological thing, however for his generation I’m sure there’s plenty of others who think the same.
soxboy said:
I’ve tried to reason with him that all you are doing is paying a monthly fee to get everything done, but he can’t get his read round the idea of having to pay out a committed set amount each and every month.
It’s probably more a psychological thing, however for his generation I’m sure there’s plenty of others who think the same.
To be fair, I am only 49, Lived in same house now for 21 years,morgage free next month on a 3 bed house and no kids. The thought of moving into a flat having no morgage on it but still feel like im paying a morgage every month for less/no garden, less space , more noise and the possiblity of being totally surounded by possible (must be nice) anti socal people fills me with dread. It’s probably more a psychological thing, however for his generation I’m sure there’s plenty of others who think the same.
Oh and thats without thinking about parking for my motorbikes nor does it include the future were I would need to charge a car etc.
.
stupidbutkeen said:
To be fair, I am only 49, Lived in same house now for 21 years,morgage free next month on a 3 bed house and no kids. The thought of moving into a flat having no morgage on it but still feel like im paying a morgage every month for less/no garden, less space , more noise and the possiblity of being totally surounded by possible (must be nice) anti socal people fills me with dread.
Oh and thats without thinking about parking for my motorbikes nor does it include the future were I would need to charge a car etc.
.
Plus you don’t own it you lease it - your borrowing it. Oh and thats without thinking about parking for my motorbikes nor does it include the future were I would need to charge a car etc.
.
You need the freeholders permission to change anything in addition to building regs/planning permission.
soxboy said:
OldGermanHeaps said:
Should non key workers be allowed to drive?
Fossil fuels are a finite resource, and some people cant afford the rising prices.
Maybe someone could invent modes of transport that don’t run on fossil fuels?Fossil fuels are a finite resource, and some people cant afford the rising prices.
soxboy said:
Sheepshanks said:
soxboy said:
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
To be fair, he'll likely be paying council tax monthly, and probably utility bills too.It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
If the charge was reasonable, it's pretty easy to offset it against what maintenance of his own place would be - plus there shouldn't be any worries about looking after the fabric. It's the uncertain nature of future charges that is unsettling.
It’s probably more a psychological thing, however for his generation I’m sure there’s plenty of others who think the same.
soxboy said:
Sheepshanks said:
soxboy said:
My FIL won’t downsize as he can’t/ won’t get his head round the idea of having to pay a service charge and ground rent if he gets a flat.
It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
To be fair, he'll likely be paying council tax monthly, and probably utility bills too.It’s not that he doesn’t understand the need for such costs, but that he’s had probably 25 years of no mortgage so going to come as a culture shock to start paying out monthly again.
If the charge was reasonable, it's pretty easy to offset it against what maintenance of his own place would be - plus there shouldn't be any worries about looking after the fabric. It's the uncertain nature of future charges that is unsettling.
It’s probably more a psychological thing, however for his generation I’m sure there’s plenty of others who think the same.
The management company did a survey of work they felt was needed in the future and it was over £1m for 100 flats. They wanted to up the maintenance to cover that scale of work over a few years!
Look at what's happening with cladding in the wake of Grenfell.
If you own your own home you get to decide what's done.
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