Kitchens - cheap vs expensive
Discussion
Lord Marylebone said:
Agree with the above.
Get the very best fitter you can afford. Make sure they are an expert at kitchen fitting, not just a joiner who has fitted the occasional kitchen. It's all the little things they do that make a kitchen look good, or terrible, and only someone skilled at kitchens will know.
As for the actual kitchens themselves: A good friend of mine manufactures and sells kitchens, and he's the first to admit that it's all 'smoke and mirrors'. The price pretty much depends on how well the salesmen can flog them, or how fancy the showroom is.
This doesn't apply to bespoke handmade solid wood kitchens, where they genuinely do make them in a joiners shop, but it applies to pretty much every other 'factory' kitchen on the market.
I got an 'upmarket' and well respected independent kitchen showroom to design and price me up an island kitchen and a utility room, and it came to £39k. I then got my mate to price the exact same thing up for me and it came to £19k (and that was using all the same NEFF appliances, boiling water tap, engineered Quartz worktops, etc as the upmarket place).
I'm not saying all kitchens are a con, but it certainly reminds me of how double glazing used to be in the 80's and 90's.
Yep, never a truer example than Magnet Vs DIY Kitchens.....Get the very best fitter you can afford. Make sure they are an expert at kitchen fitting, not just a joiner who has fitted the occasional kitchen. It's all the little things they do that make a kitchen look good, or terrible, and only someone skilled at kitchens will know.
As for the actual kitchens themselves: A good friend of mine manufactures and sells kitchens, and he's the first to admit that it's all 'smoke and mirrors'. The price pretty much depends on how well the salesmen can flog them, or how fancy the showroom is.
This doesn't apply to bespoke handmade solid wood kitchens, where they genuinely do make them in a joiners shop, but it applies to pretty much every other 'factory' kitchen on the market.
I got an 'upmarket' and well respected independent kitchen showroom to design and price me up an island kitchen and a utility room, and it came to £39k. I then got my mate to price the exact same thing up for me and it came to £19k (and that was using all the same NEFF appliances, boiling water tap, engineered Quartz worktops, etc as the upmarket place).
I'm not saying all kitchens are a con, but it certainly reminds me of how double glazing used to be in the 80's and 90's.
If a company needs to send you a man in a liveried van to consult with you, then design it, with branded logo's every where, and fancy websites and glossy literature, that is all bolted on to the cost. Harvey's blinds and Sharp's wardrobes spring to mind also....
Whilst on the face of it, chipboard is chipboard - quality does vary. I bought some Wickes units for the garage and the units use 15mm chipboard panels whereas others use 18mm minimum. That effects the rigidity massively. Pre-assembled units are often stronger with better fixings than just cam locks.
Cheaper units tend to have thin backing boards which flex. You get what you pay for with doors too, obviously.
Cheaper units tend to have thin backing boards which flex. You get what you pay for with doors too, obviously.
I’ve ordered a Wren kitchen, the wife likes a certain one. We went for the ready built units, in theory just bolt to the wall!
Purchased appliances elsewhere. Gone for all Miele apart from the extractor.
Purchased a bling ex display one from Ebay, £500 rather than 2k
Ordered the appliances before Christmas for March delivery. There were shortages on some..
Our own builder fitting for around 2.5k
The first day of my build, 5 of them dismantled conservatory & demolishing the garage already !
Purchased appliances elsewhere. Gone for all Miele apart from the extractor.
Purchased a bling ex display one from Ebay, £500 rather than 2k
Ordered the appliances before Christmas for March delivery. There were shortages on some..
Our own builder fitting for around 2.5k
The first day of my build, 5 of them dismantled conservatory & demolishing the garage already !
Having quotes with Dekton and laminate seems a slightly odd selection as one is probably the most expensive worktop surfaces and the other the cheapest. If you prefer the solid stone look you may find you can save a fair amount on the Dekton prices by going for something like Quartz instead. It's still a solid stone surface like Dekton, they each have their benefits/drawbacks that may decide one for you if for example you absolutely must have the ability to put a red hot pan straight onto a worktop then Quartz is probably not the best option (nor is laminate), but a mid range Quartz will probably be best part of half the price of Dekton.
Also you can have cheap cabinets and the most expensive worktop or vice versa if you want, one doesn't predetermine the other. I don't think DIY Kitchens force you one way or other depending on which cabinet range you pick but there's no requirement to buy the worktops from DIY kitchens, you may well find you can get it cheaper from a local worktop supplier/fitter anyway as companies like DIY Kitchens just farm it out to a contractor anyway so there's middle man mark up being taken.
Also you can have cheap cabinets and the most expensive worktop or vice versa if you want, one doesn't predetermine the other. I don't think DIY Kitchens force you one way or other depending on which cabinet range you pick but there's no requirement to buy the worktops from DIY kitchens, you may well find you can get it cheaper from a local worktop supplier/fitter anyway as companies like DIY Kitchens just farm it out to a contractor anyway so there's middle man mark up being taken.
LocoBlade said:
Having quotes with Dekton and laminate seems a slightly odd selection as one is probably the most expensive worktop surfaces and the other the cheapest. If you prefer the solid stone look you may find you can save a fair amount on the Dekton prices by going for something like Quartz instead. It's still a solid stone surface like Dekton, they each have their benefits/drawbacks that may decide one for you if for example you absolutely must have the ability to put a red hot pan straight onto a worktop then Quartz is probably not the best option (nor is laminate), but a mid range Quartz will probably be best part of half the price of Dekton.
Also you can have cheap cabinets and the most expensive worktop or vice versa if you want, one doesn't predetermine the other. I don't think DIY Kitchens force you one way or other depending on which cabinet range you pick but there's no requirement to buy the worktops from DIY kitchens, you may well find you can get it cheaper from a local worktop supplier/fitter anyway as companies like DIY Kitchens just farm it out to a contractor anyway so there's middle man mark up being taken.
You are right, it is basically our ideal design versus the cheapest design. I think on DIY Kitchens the carcasses are basically the same for all kitchens and it is the doors you are paying more or less for. Also you can have cheap cabinets and the most expensive worktop or vice versa if you want, one doesn't predetermine the other. I don't think DIY Kitchens force you one way or other depending on which cabinet range you pick but there's no requirement to buy the worktops from DIY kitchens, you may well find you can get it cheaper from a local worktop supplier/fitter anyway as companies like DIY Kitchens just farm it out to a contractor anyway so there's middle man mark up being taken.
Playing about with the configurator, can get the cheaper doors (19mm painted MDF) with a mid range Quartz worktop for a decent chunk less than 10 grand, which might be the way to go.
I read on another thread on here that due to their volume discounts DIY isn't particularly expensive for worktops, but agreed worth looking at some smaller local suppliers.
We should really get out to the DIY Kitchen showroom and have a prod about, though their prices go up 10% at midnight on the 28th and we can't get out before then so tempted to bite the bullet and crack on in advance of that ...
A couple of comments have reminded me - we got our quartz worktops separately. At the time Wickes were using Apollo brand quartz, so I looked online and found a web-based supplier who quoted less than half what Wickes wanted. Given that working with quartz is a specialist job, I used that web supplier's local agent to template it (and later fit it), and when he got here he commented that he was the same guy who would have turned up had we bought it through Wickes. So not only was the product identical, but the specialist fitter was too. Easy way to save about £1000.
Also, at the time, Wickes had some kind of deal on, I forget exactly but it was something on the lines of 'free dishwasher if you buy a cooker and fridge'. They conceded the original pricing per item was a bit high, but they were happy to spit out a price list with the appliances listed at a single overall price - and then pointed us in the direction of a couple of local electrical places who were all too happy to beat that price comfortably if we bought all the appliances in one lot.
Also, at the time, Wickes had some kind of deal on, I forget exactly but it was something on the lines of 'free dishwasher if you buy a cooker and fridge'. They conceded the original pricing per item was a bit high, but they were happy to spit out a price list with the appliances listed at a single overall price - and then pointed us in the direction of a couple of local electrical places who were all too happy to beat that price comfortably if we bought all the appliances in one lot.
mikey_b is about right in that all carcasses are MFC and doors are mdf sprayed, I fit kitchens for a living amongst other joinery and I’m halfway through one now, a Howdens one, compared to the Wrens I fitted a month ago and one in December they’re not up to their quality.
If you can look past the salesman patter if that’s what they’re like then Wren are good quality kitchens, I’ve looked at John Lewis ones in store and to be honest they’re nothing better, in fact the fridge freezer unit didn’t even have the shelf or end block panel fitted above the appliance, in a show room as well.
If that’s how they’re fitters leave it in a show room it doesn’t look good from a price point of view.
If you want top end kitchens look at Devol.
If you can look past the salesman patter if that’s what they’re like then Wren are good quality kitchens, I’ve looked at John Lewis ones in store and to be honest they’re nothing better, in fact the fridge freezer unit didn’t even have the shelf or end block panel fitted above the appliance, in a show room as well.
If that’s how they’re fitters leave it in a show room it doesn’t look good from a price point of view.
If you want top end kitchens look at Devol.
In my opinion the most cost-effective result is achieved by,
Prices quoted by the likes of John Lewis and Magnet are IMO far too high for what they actually supply.
- buying the cabinets from the likes of Benchmarx or Wickes, and
- fitting decent quality surfaces, handles and appliances.
Prices quoted by the likes of John Lewis and Magnet are IMO far too high for what they actually supply.
Had DIY kitchens units and quartz worktops for both the kitchen and utility room. Worktops templated and fitted by Natural Stone Surfaces who do all DIY kitchens solid worktops. Fit and finish of the worktops is superb, and the price though DIY kitchens was competitive.
We went for solid wood painted doors in the end, foil wrapped looked the same and would probably have saved about 2k but as others have said water ingress from things like the dishwasher can cause foil wrapped to swell.
Our kitchen was delivered in late October 1 week later than originally scheduled but that was fine as I needed that week to be ready for it. I think DIY kitchens were extremely busy at that point as they were offering 10% of the cabinets price if we delayed till the new year, this would have been over a grand saving but the wife said the divorce would cost me far more.
A few bit delivered had a bit of delivery damage, the delivery guys weren't exactly careful with it, one cabinet looked like it had fell of the lorry and bounced down the M1 it was so bad. The wine rack for the pantry unit was for the wrong size of unit so 150mm to short and there were several doors that didn't have the hinge holes drilled deep enough which really shouldn't have left the factory but i'm guessing due to how busy they we're the get it out the door mentality took effect.
Replacements for all damaged and incorrect parts were dispatched quickly but the first of these deliveries where i was expecting 7 items, I only received 2 items and one of them was the wrong part despite me telling them the code of the exact part that was damaged.
The quality of the units is very good and i'm very happy with it now, I accept that some delivery damage might happen. However the parts leaving the factory incorrect really shouldn't happen, a little more care and final inspection would have saved me a lot of complaining and saved DIY kitchens a small fortune in replacement doors, still I've got lots of spares that just need the hinge holes correcting should I ever damage any.
We went for solid wood painted doors in the end, foil wrapped looked the same and would probably have saved about 2k but as others have said water ingress from things like the dishwasher can cause foil wrapped to swell.
Our kitchen was delivered in late October 1 week later than originally scheduled but that was fine as I needed that week to be ready for it. I think DIY kitchens were extremely busy at that point as they were offering 10% of the cabinets price if we delayed till the new year, this would have been over a grand saving but the wife said the divorce would cost me far more.
A few bit delivered had a bit of delivery damage, the delivery guys weren't exactly careful with it, one cabinet looked like it had fell of the lorry and bounced down the M1 it was so bad. The wine rack for the pantry unit was for the wrong size of unit so 150mm to short and there were several doors that didn't have the hinge holes drilled deep enough which really shouldn't have left the factory but i'm guessing due to how busy they we're the get it out the door mentality took effect.
Replacements for all damaged and incorrect parts were dispatched quickly but the first of these deliveries where i was expecting 7 items, I only received 2 items and one of them was the wrong part despite me telling them the code of the exact part that was damaged.
The quality of the units is very good and i'm very happy with it now, I accept that some delivery damage might happen. However the parts leaving the factory incorrect really shouldn't happen, a little more care and final inspection would have saved me a lot of complaining and saved DIY kitchens a small fortune in replacement doors, still I've got lots of spares that just need the hinge holes correcting should I ever damage any.
Promised Land said:
mikey_b is about right in that all carcasses are MFC and doors are mdf sprayed, I fit kitchens for a living amongst other joinery and I’m halfway through one now, a Howdens one, compared to the Wrens I fitted a month ago and one in December they’re not up to their quality.
If you can look past the salesman patter if that’s what they’re like then Wren are good quality kitchens, I’ve looked at John Lewis ones in store and to be honest they’re nothing better, in fact the fridge freezer unit didn’t even have the shelf or end block panel fitted above the appliance, in a show room as well.
If that’s how they’re fitters leave it in a show room it doesn’t look good from a price point of view.
If you want top end kitchens look at Devol.
Not all Howdens kitchens are the same, carcass construction, door thickness and materials, options around soft close, Blum bits etc, they do contract cheap through to John Lewis quality imho. Their painted oak with all the options and granite tops is £1m-£1.5m house quality. If you can look past the salesman patter if that’s what they’re like then Wren are good quality kitchens, I’ve looked at John Lewis ones in store and to be honest they’re nothing better, in fact the fridge freezer unit didn’t even have the shelf or end block panel fitted above the appliance, in a show room as well.
If that’s how they’re fitters leave it in a show room it doesn’t look good from a price point of view.
If you want top end kitchens look at Devol.
Puzzles said:
If it helps I got 21 units, quartz tops and appliances for £12k then fitted myself, but as someone else said even an expensive kitchen will look terrible if it's fitted poorly.
Ours is some semi-posh German brand with pretentious useless people who wouldn’t sell me a panel so I could have a bin in a base unit.Other people seem to think it’s nice and fitted well.
But in my very recent experience of fitting Ikea units in the utility room, the Ikea stuff is just as nice, and it wasn’t hard to match the fitting quality.
Our last place had Ikea kitchen and utility with Neff, and it was 16 years old when we left and still nice enough.
So I fully agree… DIY if you want a quality fit. And arguably quality isn’t too heavily tied to price.
And if you’re a fashion person, then Ikea is amply hard wearing enough to last between refreshes.
I also liked DIY Kitchens. Sadly their lead time was 3 months so went Ikea, more than happy for the money.
bennno said:
Not all Howdens kitchens are the same, carcass construction, door thickness and materials, options around soft close, Blum bits etc, they do contract cheap through to John Lewis quality imho. Their painted oak with all the options and granite tops is £1m-£1.5m house quality.
I think I’m aware of the range thank you, the one I’m on now is over £12k with appliances,Blum drawers,18mm MFC carcass, 18mm doors on soft close hinges which if the hinges aren’t proper soft close now (I mean no stupid plastic piston clipped onto the hinge) then you need to look elsewhere anyway. Got chased by the Magnet salesman this evening. He didn't seem to have an answer as to why a Magnet kitchen is twice the price of a DIY Kitchens kitchen. He avoided the question of why his wine rack was 685 down to 342 whereas DIY Kitchens was 64 
He tried to argue his come fully built (so do DIY), his was tall units (so was DIY) ... tbh didn't sound like he had ever heard of DIY Kitchens.
Anyway I told him unless he could move materially he won't be getting our business and he asked to see the DIY Kitchens quote. So I've sent it to him and let's see what he comes up with ...
Played about with the quote and with the mid range DIY Kitchens doors (19mm painted MDF) and a mid-range Quartz worktop got the kitchen down to around 10k (without appliances or splashbacks) which seems quite good.
p.s. amazing how expensive a radius feature end is! Added like 5 of them then realised they were over 100 quid each ...
He tried to argue his come fully built (so do DIY), his was tall units (so was DIY) ... tbh didn't sound like he had ever heard of DIY Kitchens.Anyway I told him unless he could move materially he won't be getting our business and he asked to see the DIY Kitchens quote. So I've sent it to him and let's see what he comes up with ...
Played about with the quote and with the mid range DIY Kitchens doors (19mm painted MDF) and a mid-range Quartz worktop got the kitchen down to around 10k (without appliances or splashbacks) which seems quite good.
p.s. amazing how expensive a radius feature end is! Added like 5 of them then realised they were over 100 quid each ...
Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 21st February 19:40
We’ve just had a DIY Linwood kitchen fitted, with quartz worktops from natural stone surfaces.
26 units, including 3 internal curved corner units, and three curved end 7nits. 2 under mount sinks and a boiling (100 deg) tap.
We picked Bosch appliances from Appliance City in Nottingham.
We went for Glass Splashbacks from a Touch of Glass in Osseti.
I removed all the old units and floor tiles.
Got a tiler in to fit new floor tiles (28 sq M, as we did the hall as well) and a chippy to fit the units. Tiler also skimmed the ceilings / walls.
Kitchen is 4.5m x 2.5m, utility is 2.5m x 1.7m
Total cost just over £20k.
26 units, including 3 internal curved corner units, and three curved end 7nits. 2 under mount sinks and a boiling (100 deg) tap.
We picked Bosch appliances from Appliance City in Nottingham.
We went for Glass Splashbacks from a Touch of Glass in Osseti.
I removed all the old units and floor tiles.
Got a tiler in to fit new floor tiles (28 sq M, as we did the hall as well) and a chippy to fit the units. Tiler also skimmed the ceilings / walls.
Kitchen is 4.5m x 2.5m, utility is 2.5m x 1.7m
Total cost just over £20k.
Promised Land said:
bennno said:
Not all Howdens kitchens are the same, carcass construction, door thickness and materials, options around soft close, Blum bits etc, they do contract cheap through to John Lewis quality imho. Their painted oak with all the options and granite tops is £1m-£1.5m house quality.
I think I’m aware of the range thank you, the one I’m on now is over £12k with appliances,Blum drawers,18mm MFC carcass, 18mm doors on soft close hinges which if the hinges aren’t proper soft close now (I mean no stupid plastic piston clipped onto the hinge) then you need to look elsewhere anyway. 
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