Kitchens - cheap vs expensive

[MJNewton]

ThomasSW said:

Any thoughts on what's the right choice out of 'what's best' out of a built under double oven, or built under single oven?

Mrs SW is a Pescatarian so we do sometimes cook different things, and being able to have a grill and oven on at the same time would be useful so we are leaning to the double oven, but appreciate it will be smaller than a proper tall unit double oven set up.

We've always had a built-under double oven, and for our new kitchen that's naturally what we went hunting for knowing first hand the benefits of having the two cavities. However, we were so disappointed what was on offer and we discovered that the UK is pretty much the only country that fits such an item hence manufacturer's put very little effort into design and choice, and also charge somewhat more than their more conventional counterparts given the tiny market for them. The Samsung range that someone else mentioned sounded intriguing but I was put off by the many reviews that reflected on the relative complexity of the setup and suggesting that they were more hassle than they were worth. I seem to recall issues relating to condensation build-up but I can't recall the details.

So, we took a gamble and went for a built-under single oven and just prepared ourselves for a feeling of regret every time we could've done with the dual cavity. That hasn't happened yet and we're a couple of years in... Indeed it has dawned on us that we very rarely required two cavities - whether for two ovens or an oven and grill - and that the increased cavity size of a single oven more than made up for the loss; indeed we benefit from it pretty much every day - no longer does it require ingenuity and puzzle solving to fit everything in! We also ended up with the space for a pull-out drawer underneath which neatly holds the grill pan and some trays etc.

We'd never go back to a built-under double oven again. With your Pescatarian situation that might perhaps make things different, but I thought I'd share our experience never the less.

[lornemalvo]

stichill99 said:

Not read this thread but just chipping in with we are over the moon 2 years in with our kitchen supplied by DIY-Kitchens. Great service and quality at 60% of Howdens price!

Plus one for DIY Kitchens, 7 years in and ours is fine, painted oak doors, shaker style. No salesmen on commission, great showroom and good value (and I looked everywhere)

[ThomasSW]

MJNewton said:

We've always had a built-under double oven, and for our new kitchen that's naturally what we went hunting for knowing first hand the benefits of having the two cavities. However, we were so disappointed what was on offer and we discovered that the UK is pretty much the only country that fits such an item hence manufacturer's put very little effort into design and choice, and also charge somewhat more than their more conventional counterparts given the tiny market for them. The Samsung range that someone else mentioned sounded intriguing but I was put off by the many reviews that reflected on the relative complexity of the setup and suggesting that they were more hassle than they were worth. I seem to recall issues relating to condensation build-up but I can't recall the details.

So, we took a gamble and went for a built-under single oven and just prepared ourselves for a feeling of regret every time we could've done with the dual cavity. That hasn't happened yet and we're a couple of years in... Indeed it has dawned on us that we very rarely required two cavities - whether for two ovens or an oven and grill - and that the increased cavity size of a single oven more than made up for the loss; indeed we benefit from it pretty much every day - no longer does it require ingenuity and puzzle solving to fit everything in! We also ended up with the space for a pull-out drawer underneath which neatly holds the grill pan and some trays etc.

We'd never go back to a built-under double oven again. With your Pescatarian situation that might perhaps make things different, but I thought I'd share our experience never the less.

Thanks for this it's really interesting to get this perspective, and have fed this into the better half. Thanks also to the other suggestions - I'm looking at the Samsung option as well as this may be the compromise, though our other appliances will mostly be Bosch.

I also like the idea of two cookers or the option Loughlin suggested. It's a balance of getting a well sorted kitchen within our budget whilst not going completely overboard as in the future we may do the kitchen extension.

To try to add some value to the thread rather than just taking... DIY Kitchens are what we have ordered - we looked at the usual Howdens and Magnet type suspects and the cost for DIYK wood shaker doors was in line or better than the budget mdf wrapped door offerings from other suppliers even with trade discounts through our builder.
It is a bit more of a faff in terms of ordering appliances separately and building the plan yourself - if you have a large kitchen it would probably be worth paying one of the many helpful kitchen traders on PH to design the kitchen for you and sending to DIYK. It's what I'll do next time.

If you are considering DIY Kitchens they have a price increase coming from 31st March so worth moving quickly!

Edited by ThomasSW on Tuesday 15th March 09:23

[bennno]

ThomasSW said:

Thanks for this it's really interesting to get this perspective, and have fed this into the better half. Thanks also to the other suggestions - I'm looking at the Samsung option as well as this may be the compromise, though our other appliances will mostly be Bosch.

I also like the idea of two cookers or the option Loughlin suggested. It's a balance of getting a well sorted kitchen within our budget whilst not going completely overboard as in the future we may do the kitchen extension.

To try to add some value to the thread rather than just taking... DIY Kitchens are what we have ordered - we looked at the usual Howdens and Magnet type suspects and the cost for DIYK wood shaker cabinets was in line or better than the budget mdf carcasses from other suppliers even with trade discounts through our builder.
It is a bit more of a faff in terms of ordering appliances separately and building the plan yourself - if you have a large kitchen it would probably be worth paying one of the many helpful kitchen traders on PH to design the kitchen for you and sending to DIYK. It's what I'll do next time.

If you are considering DIY Kitchens they have a price increase coming from 31st March so worth moving quickly!

Are you sure you have terminology right. Howdens cabinets / carcasses are chipboard, DIYK won’t be wood. Do you mean doors?

[singlecoil]

Commodity level kitchens will have carcases made of MFC (melamine faced chipboard). The very cheapest will often use 15mm thick MFC, better ones 18mm. These all need to be edge-banded to protect the substrate which is both unsightly and vulnerable to water. The quality of the MFC itself and the thickness and quality of the edge-banding will vary too. At this level it's all about getting the cost down, every penny counts.

[Cascade360]

I am sure he meant doors. A DIYK kitchen with 20mm solid wood shaker doors was coming in significantly cheaper than a similar kitchen from Magnet with 19mm laminated MDF doors. Carcasses in both cases were 18mm chipboard.

[ThomasSW]

Cascade360 said:

I am sure he meant doors. A DIYK kitchen with 20mm solid wood shaker doors was coming in significantly cheaper than a similar kitchen from Magnet with 19mm laminated MDF doors. Carcasses in both cases were 18mm chipboard.

Exactly this, apologies - completely the wrong terminology used! Edited post to hopefully reduce confusion.

[Groat]

Our all bells and whistles (and I must say pretty amazing) Nolte kitchen is now completed after SEVEN WEEKS of installation, apart from:

Miele oven....ordered last November finally arriving this Friday

Miele fridge....ordered last November apparently arriving mid-April

Miele hob......not working and an apparently difficult fix and going to take two weeks more to deliver the upgrade substitute.

The sharp-eyed may notice a theme running through these bungles.

Caveat Emptor.

[singlecoil]

Groat said:

Caveat Emptor.

Do you think the problems were caused by Nolte or the local supplier?

[number2]

Groat said:

Our all bells and whistles (and I must say pretty amazing) Nolte kitchen is now completed after SEVEN WEEKS of installation, apart from:

Miele oven....ordered last November finally arriving this Friday

Miele fridge....ordered last November apparently arriving mid-April

Miele hob......not working and an apparently difficult fix and going to take two weeks more to deliver the upgrade substitute.

The sharp-eyed may notice a theme running through these bungles.

Caveat Emptor.

Most of the Miele issues are due to Miele supply chain. I had the same problems - not helped by the kitchen company ordering the incorrect appliances in some cases and having to re-order...

What was the hob issue - not working at all or...?

[Groat]

singlecoil said:

Do you think the problems were caused by Nolte or the local supplier?

Neither. 100% Miele. The kitchen people have been really amazing throughout. Feel very sorry for them. The ‘new normal’ doesn’t work well for kitchen people who have to depend on so many things affected by world events.

[Groat]

number2 said:

Groat said:

Our all bells and whistles (and I must say pretty amazing) Nolte kitchen is now completed after SEVEN WEEKS of installation, apart from:

Miele oven....ordered last November finally arriving this Friday

Miele fridge....ordered last November apparently arriving mid-April

Miele hob......not working and an apparently difficult fix and going to take two weeks more to deliver the upgrade substitute.

The sharp-eyed may notice a theme running through these bungles.

Caveat Emptor.

Most of the Miele issues are due to Miele supply chain. I had the same problems - not helped by the kitchen company ordering the incorrect appliances in some cases and having to re-order...

What was the hob issue - not working at all or...?

“Error 040”. Technician now apparently ‘en route’ which in nuspeak probably means sometime next Julember

[number2]

Groat said:

“Error 040”. Technician now apparently ‘en route’ which in nuspeak probably means sometime next Julember

Miele technicians aren't too shabby - easy to book and turn up when they say!

Saying that, why should I know this... handleless ovens, pain in the arse. Now replaced with handled versions!

[48k]

Groat said:

Our all bells and whistles (and I must say pretty amazing) Nolte kitchen is now completed after SEVEN WEEKS of installation, apart from:

Miele oven....ordered last November finally arriving this Friday

Miele fridge....ordered last November apparently arriving mid-April

Miele hob......not working and an apparently difficult fix and going to take two weeks more to deliver the upgrade substitute.

The sharp-eyed may notice a theme running through these bungles.

Caveat Emptor.

I'm feeling some of that pain. Currently in week 5 of a 5 week kitchen refit. The fitting is going to run over slightly in to next week and even then we still won't be done - the Neff hob and warming drawer have arrived but no ovens as yet. One should be with the supplier on 30th March, no date yet for the other. They were ordered in December.

[RevHappy]

Groat said:

singlecoil said:

Do you think the problems were caused by Nolte or the local supplier?

Neither. 100% Miele. The kitchen people have been really amazing throughout. Feel very sorry for them. The ‘new normal’ doesn’t work well for kitchen people who have to depend on so many things affected by world events.

Yup, industry wide issue. Miele are also the worst at offering any vouchers etc for clients.

[wilksy61]

I'm now 5 weeks into a 2 week build, its not going to be finished this week as the fitters have now gone to another job (in the same village), so we will go into next week which puts us onto week 6.

There are issues that I'm not happy with such as the tap not central with the sink (I asked for this to be central at the design stage), oven not back far enough and not secured - it weighs 172kg - mismatched plinths, end panels not fitted properly, promises to turn up and then a no show.

I have a meeting with the company and fitter tomorrow but I fear its not going to go well, my only saving grace is I've only paid 25% upfront with the balance due on satisfactory completion. A couple of pictures of some of the problems.

[singlecoil]

^^ That's really not very good at all. Fortunate about the 75% outstanding.

[LocoBlade]

wilksy61 said:

Not good but I suspect the worktop supplier will have said that the quartz (or whatever is it) is too thin along the back of that sink to drill a hole in the middle to mount it centrally, especially with that (IMO) slightly odd secondary rebate around the edge that makes it look like a separate sink inserted into the worktop rather than an undermount that it is. We've got the same Abode(?) sink as that and the waste pipe obviously sticks out off the back of that as well which further impedes the tap going in that location when there's not much space behind.

Edited by LocoBlade on Thursday 17th March 20:25

[bennno]

wilksy61 said:

I'm now 5 weeks into a 2 week build, its not going to be finished this week as the fitters have now gone to another job (in the same village), so we will go into next week which puts us onto week 6.

There are issues that I'm not happy with such as the tap not central with the sink (I asked for this to be central at the design stage), oven not back far enough and not secured - it weighs 172kg - mismatched plinths, end panels not fitted properly, promises to turn up and then a no show.

I have a meeting with the company and fitter tomorrow but I fear its not going to go well, my only saving grace is I've only paid 25% upfront with the balance due on satisfactory completion. A couple of pictures of some of the problems.

That’s not good at all. Oven and tip would make my teeth itch.

It would have been clear prior to delivery that the selected sink didn’t leave enough space for a tap behind. You could look at franke monoblock single lever tap that would look a lot better in that corner location.

Oven not pushing back in is potentially socket location.

[loughran]

wilksy61 said:

it weighs 172kg -

Interested to know about an oven that weights 172kg. Please tell me more.