Kitchens - cheap vs expensive

[singlecoil]

LocoBlade said:

wilksy61 said:

Not good but I suspect the worktop supplier will have said that the quartz (or whatever is it) is too thin along the back of that sink to drill a hole in the middle to mount it centrally, especially with that (IMO) slightly odd secondary rebate around the edge that makes it look like a separate sink inserted into the worktop rather than an undermount that it is. We've got the same Abode(?) sink as that and the waste pipe obviously sticks out off the back of that as well which further impedes the tap going in that location when there's not much space behind.

The solution would have been for the designer to space the units out from the wall and use a deeper worktop. I often do that with Belfast sinks, where the worktop would otherwise be even weaker.

[Sheepshanks]

singlecoil said:

The solution would have been for the designer to space the units out from the wall and use a deeper worktop. I often do that with Belfast sinks, where the worktop would otherwise be even weaker.

I’ve asked two kitchen companies about deeper worktops - in some kind of stone stuff, was thinking of 720mm deep - and both fobbed me off. Are there some standard over-sizes?

[LocoBlade]

Sheepshanks said:

I’ve asked two kitchen companies about deeper worktops - in some kind of stone stuff, was thinking of 720mm deep - and both fobbed me off. Are there some standard over-sizes?

Things like quartz, granite and other stone surfaces generally come in slabs about 3m x 1.5m in size which are then cut down to size, so other than the additional cost there's no reason why you couldn't have deeper worktops, no different to an island.

[bennno]

singlecoil said:

The solution would have been for the designer to space the units out from the wall and use a deeper worktop. I often do that with Belfast sinks, where the worktop would otherwise be even weaker.

Or to specify a less deep sink....

[wilksy61]

loughran said:

Interested to know about an oven that weights 172kg. Please tell me more.

Gaggenau BX480111 about the same size as an old telephone box https://www.gaggenau.com/global/products-list/BX48...

[wilksy61]

All the comments everybody has made I have had with the so called designer, I did not know the size of the sink until it was fitted, or any of the other issues, every time I mentioned something the fitter always had a answer the he wanted, unfortunately I work fairly long hours so I never got the opportunity to discuss things before they happened although the tap position seems to have been decided by the worktop manufacturer who took it upon themselves to machine the tap hole at the same time as the sink cut out etc.

I have another site meeting this evening with both the designer and fitter to try to iron out the issues, unfortunately I suspect the outcome will be down to me to put right along with an invoice reduction.

I don't think I'm being too unreasonable as the total bill is somewhere north of £25K, the main issues have been the conflict between the designer and fitter, my feelings are the designer does not like confrontation so goes along with what the fitter wants to do as opposed to what me, the customer, expects.

I shall report back once I have the outcome.

[loughran]

wilksy61 said:

loughran said:

Interested to know about an oven that weights 172kg. Please tell me more.

Gaggenau BX480111 about the same size as an old telephone box https://www.gaggenau.com/global/products-list/BX48...

Blimey, that is a beast. 760mm wide !!

I see the spec says, "The door panel surface of the appliance extends 47 mm from the furniture cavity." Which is quite a protrusion but I'm unfamiliar with Gaggenau so maybe that's a feature sir.

Anyways, make doubly sure it's bolted down securely before you open the door.

[singlecoil]

bennno said:

singlecoil said:

The solution would have been for the designer to space the units out from the wall and use a deeper worktop. I often do that with Belfast sinks, where the worktop would otherwise be even weaker.

Or to specify a less deep sink....

Except that most of my customers wouldn't want that. Not being restricted by standard worktop sizes is one of the benefits of having granite etc, that and being able to have large radius curves where appropriate.

[LocoBlade]

Our worktops with that Abode sink design albeit the 1.5 sink model are only just over standard at around 610 deep to the wall and even with 20mm thick splashbacks the tap hole was fitted in well within Silestone's minimum thickness requirements front and rear, so looks like bad planning by the designer or perhaps the fitter positioned the sink too far back prior to worktop templating and the worktop supplier have chosen the only spot it can go safely

[RevHappy]

loughran said:

wilksy61 said:

it weighs 172kg -

Interested to know about an oven that weights 172kg. Please tell me more.

Range cooker could be easy that if not double, a built in 762mm wide true double oven is about 150kg..

[RevHappy]

loughran said:

wilksy61 said:

loughran said:

Interested to know about an oven that weights 172kg. Please tell me more.

Gaggenau BX480111 about the same size as an old telephone box https://www.gaggenau.com/global/products-list/BX48...

Blimey, that is a beast. 760mm wide !!

I see the spec says, "The door panel surface of the appliance extends 47 mm from the furniture cavity." Which is quite a protrusion but I'm unfamiliar with Gaggenau so maybe that's a feature sir.

Anyways, make doubly sure it's bolted down securely before you open the door.

Was on a call and forgot to press submit on other post…..
All the Gaggenau 400 series sit proud as above, but the frame needs to be screwed in to stop it sliding. In a proper housing there’s not chance of it falling out, the 176kg will be the shipping weight but it a seriously heavy bit of kit. It’s 150kg so when I say proper housing, it needs to be specified for that appliance to take the weight. The BX is a legacy product so still has handles but its no deeper than a normal one, unlike the wolf which is deeper and ships in at over 200kg.

[wilksy61]

The weight/housing was a bone of contention with the fitter, he was quite happy to use stupid little 90° brackets held on with 4 M4 inter screws per side. I was very unhappy with this so I made a proper frame from 25mm box section that went to the floor - his problem was he then had to slightly modify the cabinet to fit the frame, however I insisted he use the frame which reluctantly he did.

Picture of said frame.

[RevHappy]

wilksy61 said:

All the comments everybody has made I have had with the so called designer, I did not know the size of the sink until it was fitted, or any of the other issues, every time I mentioned something the fitter always had a answer the he wanted, unfortunately I work fairly long hours so I never got the opportunity to discuss things before they happened although the tap position seems to have been decided by the worktop manufacturer who took it upon themselves to machine the tap hole at the same time as the sink cut out etc.

I have another site meeting this evening with both the designer and fitter to try to iron out the issues, unfortunately I suspect the outcome will be down to me to put right along with an invoice reduction.

I don't think I'm being too unreasonable as the total bill is somewhere north of £25K, the main issues have been the conflict between the designer and fitter, my feelings are the designer does not like confrontation so goes along with what the fitter wants to do as opposed to what me, the customer, expects.

I shall report back once I have the outcome.

If you have any wide shots of the kitchen it would be easier to see where there are issues you may have not seen yet. Also check the signed plans as they form part of the contract. If the rest of the kit is in line with the oven then you are very much north of £25K and are getting a very sub standard service. This sort of thing annoys me no end but how they are trading with fitting a kitchen on such a low payment after delivery and even part install is crazy but in your case they’ll be paying you soon!

[RevHappy]

wilksy61 said:

The weight/housing was a bone of contention with the fitter, he was quite happy to use stupid little 90° brackets held on with 4 M4 inter screws per side. I was very unhappy with this so I made a proper frame from 25mm box section that went to the floor - his problem was he then had to slightly modify the cabinet to fit the frame, however I insisted he use the frame which reluctantly he did.

Picture of said frame.

If the furniture company makes a standard 762 tall oven housing unit it should be designed to take a 200kg oven. I’d never dream of getting a client to knock up a frame (very nice work btw) to take in. It looks like they don’t use that level of appliance and have no idea how to use it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the got it from a third party as the don’t dish out displaying Gaggenau accounts…

[wilksy61]

I bought the oven separately and they made up the unit to suit the width, as the oven sits on that frame the housing is nothing more than a sleeve in reality as all the weight is on the frame going down to the floor - I'm an engineer so probably a bit overkill on the frame size but its not going anywhere sat on that.

I also have a Gaggenau induction downdraft hob which again gave them issues with the ventilation as I wanted it to go to an outside wall in proper ducting, ie Domus Ventilation Megaduct, which I supplied but of course they hadn't ever used such big ductwork.

Again I had to insist they used the proper products, which in all fairness they did, and it works very well.

I used to be the Operation Director of Domus Ventilation so I know one or two things about ventilation.

[RevHappy]

wilksy61 said:

I bought the oven separately and they made up the unit to suit the width, as the oven sits on that frame the housing is nothing more than a sleeve in reality as all the weight is on the frame going down to the floor - I'm an engineer so probably a bit overkill on the frame size but its not going anywhere sat on that.

I also have a Gaggenau induction downdraft hob which again gave them issues with the ventilation as I wanted it to go to an outside wall in proper ducting, ie Domus Ventilation Megaduct, which I supplied but of course they hadn't ever used such big ductwork.

Again I had to insist they used the proper products, which in all fairness they did, and it works very well.

I used to be the Operation Director of Domus Ventilation so I know one or two things about ventilation.

It very much sounds then they are well out of their depth, sadly the quality of the furniture, design and install isn’t going to match the quality of the appliances. It’s always a dangerous game to save some cash getting a lot of the kit yourself or use a company who don’t supply and use a product. I hate to think how much Megaduct I’ve to clients builders to buy as part of the room prep, at least you would have specified the bends with the airflow fins in them.

[number2]

RevHappy said:

wilksy61 said:

I bought the oven separately and they made up the unit to suit the width, as the oven sits on that frame the housing is nothing more than a sleeve in reality as all the weight is on the frame going down to the floor - I'm an engineer so probably a bit overkill on the frame size but its not going anywhere sat on that.

I also have a Gaggenau induction downdraft hob which again gave them issues with the ventilation as I wanted it to go to an outside wall in proper ducting, ie Domus Ventilation Megaduct, which I supplied but of course they hadn't ever used such big ductwork.

Again I had to insist they used the proper products, which in all fairness they did, and it works very well.

I used to be the Operation Director of Domus Ventilation so I know one or two things about ventilation.

It very much sounds then they are well out of their depth, sadly the quality of the furniture, design and install isn’t going to match the quality of the appliances. It’s always a dangerous game to save some cash getting a lot of the kit yourself or use a company who don’t supply and use a product. I hate to think how much Megaduct I’ve to clients builders to buy as part of the room prep, at least you would have specified the bends with the airflow fins in them.

Looks this way. Absolute pain in the arse and stress inducing stuff Wilky.

[Cascade360]

We went to the DIY Kitchens showroom on Friday. We were heading up from London to Newcastle anyway, so took a day off and stopped in and used it as an excuse to have a night in York. It was worth doing, and confirmed that we wanted to go ahead with a DIY Kitchen - though we would have been disappointed had we gone all the way there just for that. We were there for about an hour, they didn't have a traditional kitchen in cashmere on display, and they didn't have their computers operating so you could adjust and tweak your design whilst there.

We are likely going to order by the end of this week to benefit from the current prices (though let's see if they go ahead with their price increase). We are going to go with Stanbury, the 19mm MDF kitchen - we preferred flush joints, and don't think it is worth the price uplift for the flushed joint solid wood doors (the Norton). Mid range quartz worktop. The kitchen (units and worktops) is looking to come in at about 11.5k - which is about half the price of Magnet!

Appliances all ordered from Appliances People, Neff single ovens look like they may take a LONG time to come, but guy said he would give us a loaner if we wanted to move more quickly which is great.

Thanks to the advice in here, I think our design is much better than what the Magnet designer had produced.

[Cascade360]

One further question: what lighting would you suggest?

Recessed downlighters down the centre of the galley, and undercabinet downlighters under the wall cabinets?

[Tony Angelino]

You manufacturers had your board increases through to you yet?