Discussion
sfella said:
Aprisa said:
We moved in to a house two years back that has 12 Panels on the roof that were installed 20 years back by one of the companies that leased your roof space and installed for free.
So, the only benefit we get at the moment is the use of the power generated during the day by whatever we switch on assuming it uses less than the panels are producing.
When we moved in, the Company wanted around 12K for us to buy the panels which was obviously way too much, and more than a new setup with battery, however it is on a better feed in tariff for the remaing years and so we could expect some cash back.
Question for you experts is:- should we think of buying them as the terms comes to and end as the sliding scale will make them cost about 5K next year coming down by a couple of K to when they have 2 years to go. Will the panels be pretty much dead at the end of 25 Years and will be able to use any of the infrastructure or controls afterwards if we were to look at fitting new panels?
Bit vague I'm afraid but we don't have access to any figures for what is being produced as we don't own the setup. Thanks
Hope you checked the income before saying no. Paid 15k for a 2nd hand setup 10 years ago, averaging over 5k a year and contract runs until 2035So, the only benefit we get at the moment is the use of the power generated during the day by whatever we switch on assuming it uses less than the panels are producing.
When we moved in, the Company wanted around 12K for us to buy the panels which was obviously way too much, and more than a new setup with battery, however it is on a better feed in tariff for the remaing years and so we could expect some cash back.
Question for you experts is:- should we think of buying them as the terms comes to and end as the sliding scale will make them cost about 5K next year coming down by a couple of K to when they have 2 years to go. Will the panels be pretty much dead at the end of 25 Years and will be able to use any of the infrastructure or controls afterwards if we were to look at fitting new panels?
Bit vague I'm afraid but we don't have access to any figures for what is being produced as we don't own the setup. Thanks
romft123 said:
Road2Ruin said:
romft123 said:
Road2Ruin said:
On average we pay under 8ppkwh for the electricity we use. We have a battery, which we charge at night, and an EV. The house then runs from.the battery and we export all the solar at 15ppkwh.
What do you pay monthly for your electricity...on average Road2Ruin said:
romft123 said:
Road2Ruin said:
romft123 said:
Road2Ruin said:
On average we pay under 8ppkwh for the electricity we use. We have a battery, which we charge at night, and an EV. The house then runs from.the battery and we export all the solar at 15ppkwh.
What do you pay monthly for your electricity...on average PF62 said:
KTF said:
Agile is having a good weekend I must admit.
It is, plus there was also a three hour free electricity 'Power-Up' session on Thursday as well.KTF said:
Export the battery then get paid to charge it overnight when it drops into the minus 
More 'man maths' to convince you that buying a battery did make some sort of sense...Having a battery gives you more options. For example:
- You can store the excess energy that you might not be able to export.
- This stored energy can then be exported back on a drip feed basis whilst also being topped back up to avoid more losses.
- You have a few days buffer to cover your usage if its not a great solar day without having to pull from the grid.
- Givenergy batteries integrate with Octopus so you can automatically export when its highest, import when its lowest, etc. Or you can schedule this manually with other brands.
- You can dump the lot (subject to export restriction) when its a 'saving session' to maximise that aspect.
I agree there is an element of it being a hobby/project that doesn't make it sound financial sense but there is enjoyment to be had from it.
Aprisa said:
I am not sure if I could have checked as there is no way of me connecting to the panel?
The owning company would have been able to tell you how much per annum they were achieving and how long that tariff lasted until. If there's Still a good few years left I'd find out what they're making in £KTF said:
PF62 said:
KTF said:
Agile is having a good weekend I must admit.
It is, plus there was also a three hour free electricity 'Power-Up' session on Thursday as well.KTF said:
Export the battery then get paid to charge it overnight when it drops into the minus
More 'man maths' to convince you that buying a battery did make some sort of sense...Having a battery gives you more options. For example:
- You can store the excess energy that you might not be able to export.
- This stored energy can then be exported back on a drip feed basis whilst also being topped back up to avoid more losses.
- You have a few days buffer to cover your usage if its not a great solar day without having to pull from the grid.
- Givenergy batteries integrate with Octopus so you can automatically export when its highest, import when its lowest, etc. Or you can schedule this manually with other brands.
- You can dump the lot (subject to export restriction) when its a 'saving session' to maximise that aspect.
I agree there is an element of it being a hobby/project that doesn't make it sound financial sense but there is enjoyment to be had from it.
Eg, say it lasts 15 years and you spent £5000. That's basically £1 per day or 3kw equivalent at peak rate. So ideally, you need a benefit of £1 a day from your £5k investment from a pure monetary point of view.
Example:
I buy a 10kwh battery for £5k. Each day, I fill it for 75p at night rate. It stops me using 10kw at day rate, so I don't spend 350p. I save £2.75 a day. I lose £1 depreciation so my net saving is £1.75 per day.
If you've got solar though, you might not save that because you're going to be using the solar for a large chunk of daily usage, so if you only deplete your battery once every 3 days, you lose 25p. But, you're not working the battery as hard, so it might last longer lol
Yeah, its hard to model. If you could predict export rates over 15 years then it could be possible to model something but I suspect that'll be a huge variable as time goes on. As more renewables come online, export rates could dwindle significantly in years ahead.
I agree that the export price is going to drop long term. The Octopus Flux rates from April onwards have declined a little in line with the cap decrease for example.
So then should the focus not be on containing/using everything you produce on the roof rather than exporting it? Which is then when the sizing the install correctly aspect comes in. Not too much that you are reliant on high levels of export to cover the cost but not too little so that you end up having to import.
Theoretically, I guess, you need enough panels to cover your daily average usage plus extra keep the battery topped up to what 80/90% for poor solar days. And that battery would probably have to be sized for slightly larger than your daily average consumption as well to give you the redundancy?
So then should the focus not be on containing/using everything you produce on the roof rather than exporting it? Which is then when the sizing the install correctly aspect comes in. Not too much that you are reliant on high levels of export to cover the cost but not too little so that you end up having to import.
Theoretically, I guess, you need enough panels to cover your daily average usage plus extra keep the battery topped up to what 80/90% for poor solar days. And that battery would probably have to be sized for slightly larger than your daily average consumption as well to give you the redundancy?
soupdragon1 said:
Probably need to work out the life span of the battery too.
Eg, say it lasts 15 years and you spent £5000. That's basically £1 per day or 3kw equivalent at peak rate. So ideally, you need a benefit of £1 a day from your £5k investment from a pure monetary point of view.
Example:
I buy a 10kwh battery for £5k. Each day, I fill it for 75p at night rate. It stops me using 10kw at day rate, so I don't spend 350p. I save £2.75 a day. I lose £1 depreciation so my net saving is £1.75 per day.
Your assumption is that the day rate is 35p/kWh, and quite simply it isn't, because if you didn't have the battery you would be on a more sensible tariff paying around 18p/kWh and so instead of saving £2.75 a day you are saving around £1.05 a day.Eg, say it lasts 15 years and you spent £5000. That's basically £1 per day or 3kw equivalent at peak rate. So ideally, you need a benefit of £1 a day from your £5k investment from a pure monetary point of view.
Example:
I buy a 10kwh battery for £5k. Each day, I fill it for 75p at night rate. It stops me using 10kw at day rate, so I don't spend 350p. I save £2.75 a day. I lose £1 depreciation so my net saving is £1.75 per day.
Deduct your £1 depreciation and you are now saving 5p a day!
soupdragon1 said:
If you've got solar though, you might not save that because you're going to be using the solar for a large chunk of daily usage, so if you only deplete your battery once every 3 days, you lose 25p. But, you're not working the battery as hard, so it might last longer lol .
Yes, your financial losses will be even greater if you have solar and a battery..soupdragon1 said:
Yeah, its hard to model.
Nah, it's dead easy for the shiny suited solar & battery salesmen knocking on people's doors showing them how much they will save...cayman-black said:
Nah, it's dead easy for the shiny suited solar & battery salesmen knocking on people's doors showing them how much they will save...
LOL, yes I have had a zoom quote from one today!
And was the prediction that you will save thousands and it will pay for itself within a couple of years...LOL, yes I have had a zoom quote from one today!
PF62 said:
dmsims said:
I think a more realistic price would be £2.5K
Including installation?Some of those solar farms you see when you drive down the M5 are starting to install BIG battery packs.
OutInTheShed said:
PF62 said:
dmsims said:
I think a more realistic price would be £2.5K
Including installation?Indeed - if you were paying an electrician for actual install time an hour would include several cups of tea
PF62 said:
Yes, but but have you not noticed that when it comes to solar and battery (or EV chargers), that no matter how simple the installation is the amount charged has no relation to it but is simply eye-wateringly high.
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