Discussion
Chris Type R said:
I'm surprised that fire risk is not something that is discussed more often - I assume solutions encased in metal and installed outside are mitigating the risk (combined with per cell temperature monitoring).
I don't think I'd want a battery mounted inside our integrated garage in close proximity to a fuelled vehicle.
There have been one or two fires on yachts related to solar/battery installations.I don't think I'd want a battery mounted inside our integrated garage in close proximity to a fuelled vehicle.
It's a lot of power and a lot of energy.
Chris Type R said:
beanoir78 said:
BESS is in my opinion the way forward for domestic solar applications, but it is expensive at the moment, and likely to be so for some time.
I was with our battery and solar teams at work for the last two days, and it’s been interesting to understand where the market is and where it’s going.
Fire risk hasn’t yet become a thing in domestic installations, but there’s a growing belief that it will very soon and that will create added issues (and likely cost) for home BESS.
I'm surprised that fire risk is not something that is discussed more often - I assume solutions encased in metal and installed outside are mitigating the risk (combined with per cell temperature monitoring).I was with our battery and solar teams at work for the last two days, and it’s been interesting to understand where the market is and where it’s going.
Fire risk hasn’t yet become a thing in domestic installations, but there’s a growing belief that it will very soon and that will create added issues (and likely cost) for home BESS.
I don't think I'd want a battery mounted inside our integrated garage in close proximity to a fuelled vehicle.
rustyuk said:
The OP asked for real life details of costs savings of which there seem to be lots of people confirming that you don't really save any money unless Putin invades another country and you don't move house for 20 years.
One poster then says nothing can beat his solar investment when in fact buying premium bonds probably will, putting the money in a SIPP definitely will.
Personally I have no issues with people buying solar panels or batteries. If you did actually save money I'd buy them myself!
Yes, yes.. WE KNOW you love your premium bonds, S&P 500, SIPPs as those will make you a millionaire overnight and buying solar is akin to chucking your life savings in the nearest fire. We know. You hate solar because it doesn't make you a ton of money. We know. You keep coming back to tell us every other day. There is no need to keep repeating yourself over and over in some kind of desperate attempt to convince people that your opniion and use case is the only one that counts. One poster then says nothing can beat his solar investment when in fact buying premium bonds probably will, putting the money in a SIPP definitely will.
Personally I have no issues with people buying solar panels or batteries. If you did actually save money I'd buy them myself!
Solar has become less lucrative over the years since fit has been reduced.I luckily got my system installed getting 43p per kWh now 60p per kWh. Given 160% return over 10 years. But if you manage the power you generate there are still big savings to be made. Diverting exported kw into immersion heater saves using gas to heat the water. Friend has got Tesla battery with charges over night on low tariff and uses the stored power for evenings. Since march his electric bill is virtually nothing. Compared to before install.
r3g said:
Yes, yes.. WE KNOW you love your premium bonds, S&P 500, SIPPs as those will make you a millionaire overnight and buying solar is akin to chucking your life savings in the nearest fire. We know. You hate solar because it doesn't make you a ton of money. We know. You keep coming back to tell us every other day. There is no need to keep repeating yourself over and over in some kind of desperate attempt to convince people that your opniion and use case is the only one that counts.
Funny how this thread lights up on sunny days?
I made about 1.2% on my Premium bonds this last year (not full holding, but a decent amount in there). I can't pay into a SIPP now that I've retired so that leaves S&S ISA which may or may not increase for when I might want to use the money to pay for my electricity. I figure paying a lump sum up front now and enjoying reduced bills going forward isn't a bad option.
I also plan on being in this house for as long as I can (I'm 56 so hopefully another 20 years at least), plus prices for electricity are only going to go one way in that time, even allowing that it's a huge blip at the moment and may come down a bit in a few years time (I'm not counting on that though).
According to my IFA I'm at the 'low risk' end, so I'm going for something that seems to be a solid 'investment' at least in terms of knowing it will help reduce my monthly bills: I'll leave a smaller amount in PBs just for the chance of a bigger win though as it's good to have a bit of a dream. The rest will be in stuff more solid, even if worse performing than the more risky S&S ISAs, stock market stuff, etc.
EDIT: I think of buying the panels, etc a bit like someone buying a new car that is more economical to run, except in this case it's like the car paying for the petrol. I usually think people doing that are missing the point (£30k car 'but I get 50mpg and it's only £30 road tax'), but now I'm on a fixed income and we have some inheritance coming then using part of it to reduce future outgoings is appealing.
I also plan on being in this house for as long as I can (I'm 56 so hopefully another 20 years at least), plus prices for electricity are only going to go one way in that time, even allowing that it's a huge blip at the moment and may come down a bit in a few years time (I'm not counting on that though).
According to my IFA I'm at the 'low risk' end, so I'm going for something that seems to be a solid 'investment' at least in terms of knowing it will help reduce my monthly bills: I'll leave a smaller amount in PBs just for the chance of a bigger win though as it's good to have a bit of a dream. The rest will be in stuff more solid, even if worse performing than the more risky S&S ISAs, stock market stuff, etc.
EDIT: I think of buying the panels, etc a bit like someone buying a new car that is more economical to run, except in this case it's like the car paying for the petrol. I usually think people doing that are missing the point (£30k car 'but I get 50mpg and it's only £30 road tax'), but now I'm on a fixed income and we have some inheritance coming then using part of it to reduce future outgoings is appealing.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Friday 19th August 12:30
beanoir78 said:
I watched a video of a BESS fire, granted it was a bigger array than a domestic set-up, but it blew the doors off of a steel shipping container and launched them several meters across the compound…
Sounds a bit crappy if they didn’t anticipate needing pressure vents and blowout panels. pquinn said:
beanoir78 said:
I watched a video of a BESS fire, granted it was a bigger array than a domestic set-up, but it blew the doors off of a steel shipping container and launched them several meters across the compound…
Sounds a bit crappy if they didn’t anticipate needing pressure vents and blowout panels. Chris Type R said:
g40steve said:
Funny how this thread lights up on sunny days?
Ultimately as others have said, it is not solely about the cost and RoI although depending on how high prices go, it may turn from a decent long term investment to a very good one.
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Well, I guess the ROI calculation just improved significantly.
I would imagine that the price of solar panels will now jump again!
I guess I can't blame you for feeling a bit smug: Still researching, trying to get quotes for our installation though at least I have a better idea of what we want now, which means I can ignore certain packages I've seen (invertor size far too small and/or battery that wouldn't allow us to even boil a kettle without some draw from the grid I would imagine that the price of solar panels will now jump again!
).We had a celebration last night because we paid off our mortgage yesterday, though a chunk of that monthly saving is going to go to Octopus now...
OldSkoolRS said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Well, I guess the ROI calculation just improved significantly.
I would imagine that the price of solar panels will now jump again!
I guess I can't blame you for feeling a bit smug: Still researching, trying to get quotes for our installation though at least I have a better idea of what we want now, which means I can ignore certain packages I've seen (invertor size far too small and/or battery that wouldn't allow us to even boil a kettle without some draw from the grid I would imagine that the price of solar panels will now jump again!
).We had a celebration last night because we paid off our mortgage yesterday, though a chunk of that monthly saving is going to go to Octopus now...
Was more a dig at the posters saying that they are not worth it, the payback will never happen and some bonds would have been a better investment.
What I would say in response to your post is to upsize the inverter. The cost difference between a 5.0kW inverter and the 3.8kW inverter we have is about £200.... most of the costs are in the installation. I wish I had specced a bigger inverter. That said - 99.9% of the time the house is drawing less than 3.8kW anyway - it is only if we have the oven on, whilst boiling the kettle, whilst also running the washing machine and A/C. So to be honest, the small amount of time spent drawing more than the inverter can handle shouldn't add up to much.
My man maths says it would have been worth going for the bigger one at install time as it would only be a couple of hundred at most, but to rip out the current one and replace would be >£1K so probably not worth it, although I could probably get some of that back selling the "old" inverter.
Congrats on paying off the mortgage.
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
I don't necessarily feel smug. Happy that we have them yes, and happy that they are contributing to reducing our energy costs at the moment. Still concerned about how much we will get out of them in the winter. But overall happy that we have made the right choice.
Was more a dig at the posters saying that they are not worth it, the payback will never happen and some bonds would have been a better investment.
What I would say in response to your post is to upsize the inverter. The cost difference between a 5.0kW inverter and the 3.8kW inverter we have is about £200.... most of the costs are in the installation. I wish I had specced a bigger inverter. That said - 99.9% of the time the house is drawing less than 3.8kW anyway - it is only if we have the oven on, whilst boiling the kettle, whilst also running the washing machine and A/C. So to be honest, the small amount of time spent drawing more than the inverter can handle shouldn't add up to much.
My man maths says it would have been worth going for the bigger one at install time as it would only be a couple of hundred at most, but to rip out the current one and replace would be >£1K so probably not worth it, although I could probably get some of that back selling the "old" inverter.
Congrats on paying off the mortgage.
Thanks TS, my apologies for the smug comment; bad choice of words: Should have said 'pleased with yourself' or similar.Was more a dig at the posters saying that they are not worth it, the payback will never happen and some bonds would have been a better investment.
What I would say in response to your post is to upsize the inverter. The cost difference between a 5.0kW inverter and the 3.8kW inverter we have is about £200.... most of the costs are in the installation. I wish I had specced a bigger inverter. That said - 99.9% of the time the house is drawing less than 3.8kW anyway - it is only if we have the oven on, whilst boiling the kettle, whilst also running the washing machine and A/C. So to be honest, the small amount of time spent drawing more than the inverter can handle shouldn't add up to much.
My man maths says it would have been worth going for the bigger one at install time as it would only be a couple of hundred at most, but to rip out the current one and replace would be >£1K so probably not worth it, although I could probably get some of that back selling the "old" inverter.
Congrats on paying off the mortgage.
I had come to the same conclusion about the 3.8kW vs a slightly more expensive 5kW inverter. I have to admit I didn't realise the significance of that until recently while doing my research. We are getting our smart meter installed next week, so I'll be doing lots of checks to see what our peak draw is such as dishwasher and washing machine on together (on top of the usual fridge/freezer, etc 'background'). It might not be more than 3.8kW, but for such a small extra cost I think the man maths approach is worth it. We rarely use the kettle, but I'm interested to see what our Nespresso machine uses; I'd like to think it's more efficient since it only boils what is needed...it's my little luxury anyway as I prefer it to instant coffee, although I know some people despise them.
I'm still trying to understand if there is a similar limit on the battery draw or whether that is more a function of the inverter?
We're piggybacking off a friend who is getting quotes done locally. So far they've been very poor value based on what I've read on here and other forums. I've also joined the Facebook solar page that someone linked to (perhaps on another forum) for extra info/price comparison. I was hoping for around £8k for 4kW panels, plus get my son in law to add a battery afterwards (still cheaper than not paying VAT via the main installer), so perhaps £11-12k all in. With the price cap rises no doubt the solar installers will push the prices up further so I feel a bit under pressure to jump in. However, the mortgage pay off yesterday was from part of an inheritance and the remainder is still some way off which will partly be used for the solar install. Given the massive delays we've had so far in the process I daren't commit to an order until we know 100% we have the funds ready.
Look at what the max power an inverter can pull from the battery, I have the Gen 1 5kw Givenergy so can only charge and discharge at 2.6kwh maximum. Realistically this causes me to pay when boiling the kettle and thats about it, which is pennies per week when being used first thing or late at night once the sun has gone down. The Gen 2 offers 3.6kwh charge and discharge.
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Well, I guess the ROI calculation just improved significantly.
I would imagine that the price of solar panels will now jump again!
Yes.I would imagine that the price of solar panels will now jump again!
Panels are still pretty cheap to buy, the installers and their sales boys are making a lot of money.
The ROI calc will look a bit poor when people buy systems for £15k, save £1k over the next year, then find they can buy the system for £10k next year.
SoliD said:
Look at what the max power an inverter can pull from the battery, I have the Gen 1 5kw Givenergy so can only charge and discharge at 2.6kwh maximum. Realistically this causes me to pay when boiling the kettle and thats about it, which is pennies per week when being used first thing or late at night once the sun has gone down. The Gen 2 offers 3.6kwh charge and discharge.
Thanks; something for me to look out for then. We rarely boil a kettle as we have a Nespresso machine (not sure what that draws though, but at least it only boils what it needs). I know some despise them, but I prefer it to instant and can't be done with making it from ground beans, etc. It'll be interesting to see what the smart meter shows once it's connected up.
OldSkoolRS said:
Thanks; something for me to look out for then.
We rarely boil a kettle as we have a Nespresso machine (not sure what that draws though, but at least it only boils what it needs). I know some despise them, but I prefer it to instant and can't be done with making it from ground beans, etc. It'll be interesting to see what the smart meter shows once it's connected up.
My tassimo (similar) uses a max of 1kwh, but only for about 20 seconds, then drops to a few hundred watts.We rarely boil a kettle as we have a Nespresso machine (not sure what that draws though, but at least it only boils what it needs). I know some despise them, but I prefer it to instant and can't be done with making it from ground beans, etc. It'll be interesting to see what the smart meter shows once it's connected up.
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