Solar Panels?

[MaxFromage]

TDK-C60 said:

Thanks, and good luck. Does he mean he can actually do the job in 6 weeks? Much quicker than I expected. What region (generally) is this?

I have been wondering about the inverter size as per the other posts. I am tempted by the givenergy products too but will probably aim for a bigger inverter which might mean another supplier (estimate I can get 10Kw on roof, with possible growth to a bit more, all south facing).

If you're south facing without any impediments (shading etc), then you'll definitely need a 10kw inverter.

[Arnold Cunningham]

Yes. As per our convo above, my setup is right on the edge of practical for a 5KW one but I believe mitigated by direction and shading.

And actually, I've just read the specs of the inverter. It's a 5KW inverter, but can take up to 6.5KW input DC which I think addresses part of the panel output convo above. And then, I see max battery charge rate it'd accept is 3.6KW anyway, so I guess the rest would then be to run the house or push back into the grid. All a bit confusing. I'm good(ish) at electronics, but I just don't know quite what it all means, yet. But then I'm impressed we can plug an inverter in to the mains and push power back into the grid with all the AC waveform perfectly synced etc and not blow stuff up. Anyway, my expectation is we'll consume most of what we consume, even in the summer - I'll just be warming the kids pool up a bit if we have an excess.

I also think I read somewhere that the Givenerygy hybrid inverters can't currently be daisychained, but that there might be a firmware update in the pipeline to allow it at some point - but sods law, I can't find that article/post again.

[Tesco]

Temo_Wil said:

Horrendous price in my opinion without any battery storage.

My install quote (booked 2 weeks ago):

10x JA Solar 405 solar panel
SolaX X1 High Voltage Hybrid 5.0T inverter **NET** Emlite Bi-directional Meter ECA2.nv Label sheet
Solax Meter Chint / Eastron SDM 230-Modbus
2x AC isolator - KN Newbury 20A 4-pole
SolaX Triple 5.8kWh LFP Battery (Master Console) SolaX Triple 5.8kWh LFP Battery (Slave Console)
DC isolator - KG20-4
2x Pair of MC4 connectors
50m reel of 4mm2 solar cable
20x Renusol end clamp (silver)
10x Renusol mid clamp (silver)
20x Renusol end cap (silver)
14x Renusol portrait concrete tile roof hook
4x Renusol rail splice
16x Renusol landscape concrete tile roof hook
8x Renusol rail 3.3m silver
iBoost - Immersion Control Device
Services Costs
Design and Installation of Solar PV Design and Installation of Battery Storage MCS
Structural Survey Certificate
Scaffolding
Electrical Installation Certificate
Independent Warranty - 10 Years
Wifi Monitoring
£11,701.49

Just had my quote from the same company for basically the same setup, main difference is 12 x 390 W panels as system would be split (East / West roof, so 50/50 split).
£12,306.23
I don't need scafolding either as I'm in a bungalow, so not really sure why it's 600 quid more than about a month ago for something very similar. system prices gone up that much, or increase in labour?
Hmm.

[glennjamin]

Having had solar panels fitted since 2012. Now considering having a battery installed. Has anyone got experience of doing this or know if it is much hasle ?. Have you got to change inverter ? Etc

[AW10]

I think it’s a bit of a faff because in order to not impact your FIT payments you have to take AC, convert it to DC, store it, and then convert it back to AC in order to use it. This requires a 2nd inverter and there are some efficiency losses due to the extra conversions.

[SoliD]

Re the Max generation. I have 6.2kwh of panels and a 5kwh Givenergy inverter - the hours where it generates more than 5kwh over the summer months I could probably count on one hand, when we had that lovely warm summer period, due to the temperature the panels efficiency reduced by c. 10% and then even with my AC running non stop I never struggled for power. also with the inverter I'm limited to charging at 2.6kwh, and despite my best efforts I couldn't use all of that power, so unless you've got multiple EVs that need charging you'd probably be exporting that excess energy, and more than likely at a rate that isn't going to pay you back any time soon.

[Arnold Cunningham]

SoliD said:

Re the Max generation. I have 6.2kwh of panels and a 5kwh Givenergy inverter - the hours where it generates more than 5kwh over the summer months I could probably count on one hand, when we had that lovely warm summer period, due to the temperature the panels efficiency reduced by c. 10% and then even with my AC running non stop I never struggled for power. also with the inverter I'm limited to charging at 2.6kwh, and despite my best efforts I couldn't use all of that power, so unless you've got multiple EVs that need charging you'd probably be exporting that excess energy, and more than likely at a rate that isn't going to pay you back any time soon.

Givenergy 5kw Gen 1 Inverter? I've asked my lot to confirm it'll be a Gen 2 inverter I get since I can see the battery DC power spec is increased to 3.6kw on them. The 9.5kwh battery also matches this with its rated output.

For us, when we're producing more power than that in the summer, once the battery is full we'll just dump the extra into either the hot water or the kids pool.
Would be nice if our gas consumption could be zero throughout the summer months.

It's interesting isn't it. When is a 5kw inverter not a 5kw inverter. When it's running off the battery only.

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 15th September 09:32

[SoliD]

yeah Gen1, wanted the Gen2, but the extra 3+ months wait wasn't worth it. Contemplating adding another inverter to allow greater charge/discharge rates as I still hit the grid during peak periods (kettle+Dishwasher) but mostly balance my usage around this. If you have usage for it then it makes sense, but point I was trying to make is that even in the height of summer you won't be making the top end power for many hours whatsoever. My roof is 3degress off South for reference.

[Arnold Cunningham]

Yeah, and I agree with your point.

I've been thinking about the kettle + toaster conundrum too. But the major step up in cost to double the battery kw capacity just seems a bit hard to swallow over my toast and coffee this morning as I watched the smart meter peaking at 3.5kw.

I tried to spec the system around our 80% scenario since that last 20% seem to be a big increase in cost, or a reduction in functionality (charge scheduling, say) to cover the edge cases we can work around - by scheduling the dishwasher and washing machine to run overnight on cheap rate if poss, or just sequencing them rather than doing in parallel. Little things that won't make a difference to our lifestyle but will help minimise peak grid consumption.

And if I'm in the garage running the big tools, all bets are off anyway. I've certainly tripped the 20A RCD in the garage many times when casually turning on all the big tools (now on 2 seperate circuits to address that - a normal 13 amp socket circuit and a 16amp blue plug circuit with a different RCD that can handle a startup load off a big motor better). This type of stuff is only ever going to come off the grid unless I go really large.

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 15th September 10:24

[V-spec]

Very cloudy day here yesterday and the difference in PV production was amazing compared to just a few days ago.

We had a couple of days like this and our battery reached zero, so started importing from the grid for the first time since installation in August.

Here is yesterday…


Compared with Monday…

[Arnold Cunningham]

Just to make sure I read that right:

You consumed 10.27kwh
You produced 1.35kwh from solar
You used 7.46 kwh from the battery, which ran it down to 0 or thereabouts
And and consumed 2.81kwh from the grid

May I ask what your array size is? The graphs seems to correlate 7kw with 1w/m2 which would imply 7000 m2 - I doubt that!
Something like 25x 400w panels?

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 15th September 11:35

[V-spec]

Not far off, 23 panels with 8.6kwh max and a 15kwh battery

[sammyb349]

AyBee said:

Are they the same panels they've quoted for? You need to look at the capacity of the panels, not just the number.

Perhaps easier if I post the two quotes for more specific help

First is from Feb. Second is from last week. There has been some movement (inverter is 1k more), bigger battery as mentioned etc. but the biggest movements are loss of discount and panel cost significantly higher.

Feels egregious to me - but keen for others views, as it could have been the Feb quote was amazing…

[Arnold Cunningham]

Have a google. Retail on a Sunsynk 3.6kw inverter looks to be about 1200 quid?

[MaxFromage]

Same markup on the panels. No-one can blame them cashing in at the moment, but personally they'd be better not itemising the bill. Easier to hide £8K labour and profit then.

[Arnold Cunningham]

Yeah, they’ve not itemised my estimate. I don’t mind paying a fair price for it all, but it’s best not to take the piss. e.g we can google a retail price.

Maybe they get a trade discount and mark it up to retail. OK. Maybe they want to charge a bit more than standard on labour if they’re in demand. Also fair enough. But don't take the piss.

FWIW my quote, 21 panels, 8 optimisers, 5kw givenergy inverter, 9.5kw battery, bird nets and all other fittings, inc installation which will need scaffold, is only about grand more than you’ve been quoted there for a fair bit more kit (than your original, let alone the recent one). I worked out that based on what I could buy the kit for, there’d be maybe < 2k left for install. I assume their buy price must be lower than what I see, but I certainly didnt feel offended by any of the prices. So I accepted it as quoted.

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Friday 16th September 09:07

[dmsims]

That's over £400 a panel - taking the p*ss

[rustyuk]

sammyb349 said:

AyBee said:

Are they the same panels they've quoted for? You need to look at the capacity of the panels, not just the number.

Perhaps easier if I post the two quotes for more specific help

First is from Feb. Second is from last week. There has been some movement (inverter is 1k more), bigger battery as mentioned etc. but the biggest movements are loss of discount and panel cost significantly higher.

Feels egregious to me - but keen for others views, as it could have been the Feb quote was amazing…

That's nearly a 10 year pay back at 30p kWh, assuming an even distribution of power over the year. Which of course there isn't.

[Road2Ruin]

For reference, for some people. Here in the South West;
13 JA Solar 390w panels, in roof system.
Givenergy 5kw inverter
9.5kwh battery
Givenery EV charger
Half the roof stripped, refelted, battened, dry ridge fitted and tiles relaid.
Scaffolding.
£16.5k

Seemed sensible to have the roof done at the same time to kill two birds with one stone.

Edited by Road2Ruin on Friday 16th September 09:40

[Evanivitch]

Road2Ruin said:

For reference, for some people. Here in the South West;
13 JA Solar 390w panels, in roof system.
Givenergy 5kw inverter
9.5kwh battery
Givenery EV charger
Half the roof stripped, referred, battened, dry ridge fitted and tiles relaid.
Scaffolding.
£16.5k

Seemed sensible to have the roof done at the same time to kill two birds with one stone.

Cheers for the indicative costs. I'm of a similar opinion. 1980s house, original roof, felt on interior already a bit torn, would be daft not to refresh roof in meantime.