Discussion
Yes that’s about right, I ordered in April, currently my supplier is expecting to get one in for me about Feb based on current rates.
There was a big hiatus of supply when there were covid lockdowns in China, but about August / September, supplies started coming through again. But obviously by that point the queues are bigger.
I actually have the gateway installed already (solar went in two weeks ago), to my surprise, but given how central it is to the whole thing, i can see how it makes sense.
I can see how the battery will cause significantly more diversion from export, because it is hard to reliably use up the solar while it’s happening at this time of year, but on a sunny day we are still generating 75%+ of our usage.
On a cloudy day it’s about 1/3rd so far is my experience. 8x410w panels on south facing roof.
There was a big hiatus of supply when there were covid lockdowns in China, but about August / September, supplies started coming through again. But obviously by that point the queues are bigger.
I actually have the gateway installed already (solar went in two weeks ago), to my surprise, but given how central it is to the whole thing, i can see how it makes sense.
I can see how the battery will cause significantly more diversion from export, because it is hard to reliably use up the solar while it’s happening at this time of year, but on a sunny day we are still generating 75%+ of our usage.
On a cloudy day it’s about 1/3rd so far is my experience. 8x410w panels on south facing roof.
Chris Type R said:
I'd think that 4.5k for panels is more than the panel cost - & very much depends on size.
Earlier I looked at material costs (retail pricing) for 8 x 415W as a E & W install - i.e. two arrays and a single 2 string inverter & I think this was roughly £3700 incl VAT & delivery. Your install costs should carry no VAT. ( https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/ )
I looked at that site above as I think the install companies are pulling peoples pants down. I got quoted approx £12.5k for a 6kW system and then £10.5k for a Tesla power wall from one company and I can't quite remember but about £8k from another last year for a 6kW.Earlier I looked at material costs (retail pricing) for 8 x 415W as a E & W install - i.e. two arrays and a single 2 string inverter & I think this was roughly £3700 incl VAT & delivery. Your install costs should carry no VAT. ( https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/ )
If I build a 5kW system on the midsummer website everything included is £4300 delivered, why are they charging so much for install? I keep reading that a system is installed in a day by a couple of blokes, how does this translate to the final figures unless they are taking the Mickey?
How can I get a fairly priced install, any tips?
Another 'is this a good price' post if I may 
My annual electric consumption is 2154kW. Currently on Octopus Agile.
I was also working on the basis that you need a battery to get the best out of the system so you store up energy during the day (or charge it up cheaply overnight) then use the stored energy in the evenings, etc. With no battery you are either using the grid when there is no sunshine or producing excess energy that cant be stored which doesnt seem the best use out of the system.
With the above in mind I have received the following quote.
JAM54S31 AB Half-Cell 3.16kW of Solar Power
8 x JAM54S31-395/MR 395 Watt panels
12 Year Product Warranty & 25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
2,363kWh per year
Hybrid Inverter GivEnergy
3.6 kW of Total Inverter Power
1 x GIV-HY3.6
Warranty coverage of up to 5 years extendable to 10 years
The way I interpret this is that the solar panels covers my current annual consumption with a bit of headroom and the inverter also has a bit of headroom to cover the output of the panels.
This is quoted at £8143 installed (scaffolding, anti-bird mesh, etc). Claimed £6006 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
There is then the option to add a 5.3kWh battery:
1 x GIV-Bat5.2
5.2kWh of Storage
10 Year Performance Warranty
Total with battery is £10,133 installed. Claimed £9254 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
At the current rates on the capped energy price my annual consumption of 2154 will cost £893.43 a year (energy of £737.31 plus standing charge of £156.11.
As I would still have to pay the standing charge it would be £737.31 x 14 to cover the cost of the battery install so I am looking at a 14 year roi.
The first question is, do you think this is a good price for what I have been quoted and secondly, is it actually worth it given the 14 years roi?
The answer to the first is more out of interest as I think they answer to the second has already made me think its not worth it. Obviously this does not factor in the cost of elecricity going up more which will reduce the roi.
Thanks for reading and am pleased that I actually got someone to give me a quote
My annual electric consumption is 2154kW. Currently on Octopus Agile.
I was also working on the basis that you need a battery to get the best out of the system so you store up energy during the day (or charge it up cheaply overnight) then use the stored energy in the evenings, etc. With no battery you are either using the grid when there is no sunshine or producing excess energy that cant be stored which doesnt seem the best use out of the system.
With the above in mind I have received the following quote.
JAM54S31 AB Half-Cell 3.16kW of Solar Power
8 x JAM54S31-395/MR 395 Watt panels
12 Year Product Warranty & 25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
2,363kWh per year
Hybrid Inverter GivEnergy
3.6 kW of Total Inverter Power
1 x GIV-HY3.6
Warranty coverage of up to 5 years extendable to 10 years
The way I interpret this is that the solar panels covers my current annual consumption with a bit of headroom and the inverter also has a bit of headroom to cover the output of the panels.
This is quoted at £8143 installed (scaffolding, anti-bird mesh, etc). Claimed £6006 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
There is then the option to add a 5.3kWh battery:
1 x GIV-Bat5.2
5.2kWh of Storage
10 Year Performance Warranty
Total with battery is £10,133 installed. Claimed £9254 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
At the current rates on the capped energy price my annual consumption of 2154 will cost £893.43 a year (energy of £737.31 plus standing charge of £156.11.
As I would still have to pay the standing charge it would be £737.31 x 14 to cover the cost of the battery install so I am looking at a 14 year roi.
The first question is, do you think this is a good price for what I have been quoted and secondly, is it actually worth it given the 14 years roi?
The answer to the first is more out of interest as I think they answer to the second has already made me think its not worth it. Obviously this does not factor in the cost of elecricity going up more which will reduce the roi.
Thanks for reading and am pleased that I actually got someone to give me a quote
KTF said:
Another 'is this a good price' post if I may
My annual electric consumption is 2154kW. Currently on Octopus Agile.
I was also working on the basis that you need a battery to get the best out of the system so you store up energy during the day (or charge it up cheaply overnight) then use the stored energy in the evenings, etc. With no battery you are either using the grid when there is no sunshine or producing excess energy that cant be stored which doesnt seem the best use out of the system.
With the above in mind I have received the following quote.
JAM54S31 AB Half-Cell 3.16kW of Solar Power
8 x JAM54S31-395/MR 395 Watt panels
12 Year Product Warranty & 25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
2,363kWh per year
Hybrid Inverter GivEnergy
3.6 kW of Total Inverter Power
1 x GIV-HY3.6
Warranty coverage of up to 5 years extendable to 10 years
The way I interpret this is that the solar panels covers my current annual consumption with a bit of headroom and the inverter also has a bit of headroom to cover the output of the panels.
This is quoted at £8143 installed (scaffolding, anti-bird mesh, etc). Claimed £6006 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
There is then the option to add a 5.3kWh battery:
1 x GIV-Bat5.2
5.2kWh of Storage
10 Year Performance Warranty
Total with battery is £10,133 installed. Claimed £9254 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
At the current rates on the capped energy price my annual consumption of 2154 will cost £893.43 a year (energy of £737.31 plus standing charge of £156.11.
As I would still have to pay the standing charge it would be £737.31 x 14 to cover the cost of the battery install so I am looking at a 14 year roi.
The first question is, do you think this is a good price for what I have been quoted and secondly, is it actually worth it given the 14 years roi?
The answer to the first is more out of interest as I think they answer to the second has already made me think its not worth it. Obviously this does not factor in the cost of elecricity going up more which will reduce the roi.
Thanks for reading and am pleased that I actually got someone to give me a quote
My bold - you need to realise this isn't going to be the case in reality. While the battery will help considerably over a 24 hr period, it will not help you beyond that and as such you will still end up with a considerable excess in May-July and a considerable deficit from November-February. Your maths which assume zero consumption from the grid are therefore miles off I'd suggest. My annual electric consumption is 2154kW. Currently on Octopus Agile.
I was also working on the basis that you need a battery to get the best out of the system so you store up energy during the day (or charge it up cheaply overnight) then use the stored energy in the evenings, etc. With no battery you are either using the grid when there is no sunshine or producing excess energy that cant be stored which doesnt seem the best use out of the system.
With the above in mind I have received the following quote.
JAM54S31 AB Half-Cell 3.16kW of Solar Power
8 x JAM54S31-395/MR 395 Watt panels
12 Year Product Warranty & 25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
2,363kWh per year
Hybrid Inverter GivEnergy
3.6 kW of Total Inverter Power
1 x GIV-HY3.6
Warranty coverage of up to 5 years extendable to 10 years
The way I interpret this is that the solar panels covers my current annual consumption with a bit of headroom and the inverter also has a bit of headroom to cover the output of the panels.
This is quoted at £8143 installed (scaffolding, anti-bird mesh, etc). Claimed £6006 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
There is then the option to add a 5.3kWh battery:
1 x GIV-Bat5.2
5.2kWh of Storage
10 Year Performance Warranty
Total with battery is £10,133 installed. Claimed £9254 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
At the current rates on the capped energy price my annual consumption of 2154 will cost £893.43 a year (energy of £737.31 plus standing charge of £156.11.
As I would still have to pay the standing charge it would be £737.31 x 14 to cover the cost of the battery install so I am looking at a 14 year roi.
The first question is, do you think this is a good price for what I have been quoted and secondly, is it actually worth it given the 14 years roi?
The answer to the first is more out of interest as I think they answer to the second has already made me think its not worth it. Obviously this does not factor in the cost of elecricity going up more which will reduce the roi.
Thanks for reading and am pleased that I actually got someone to give me a quote
The financial argument for domestic batteries is still very weak.
Edited by Jambo85 on Monday 16th January 15:18
Jambo85 said:
My bold - you need to realise this isn't going to be the case in reality. While the battery will help considerably over a 24 hr period, it will not help you beyond that and as such you will still end up with a considerable excess in May-July and a considerable deficit from November-February.
The financial argument for domestic batteries is still very weak.
I agree.The financial argument for domestic batteries is still very weak.
My system powers my whole house, but I'll never recoup my money so for me it's more of a hobby. But with power outages so common here it's nice to have the security of never having the lights go out
Just waiting for some breakers to set up my latest 15kwh battery bank, which has cost me $2300 to build.
Jambo85 said:
Your maths which assume zero consumption from the grid are therefore miles off I'd suggest.
Ok so taking this into account, the roi for an install with or without a battery it then pushed even further into the future making it even more uneconomic a proposition?Edited by KTF on Monday 16th January 15:51
Apparently GivEnergy are forecasting a March delivery for the gen 2 inverters now.
That "4 to 6 weeks" to install has gone out the window hasn't it.
On the upside, the latest specs on the Gen 2 inverter seems to have a decently increased power from a single inverter - but it's still 0 if the product doesn't exist.
That "4 to 6 weeks" to install has gone out the window hasn't it.
On the upside, the latest specs on the Gen 2 inverter seems to have a decently increased power from a single inverter - but it's still 0 if the product doesn't exist.
dmsims said:
NMNeil said:
15kwh battery bank, which has cost me $2300 to build.
Where did you get the cells? Are they Grade A ?https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/life...
KTF said:
Chris Type R said:
Are you confident you'll live in the same property for 14 years ?
Another good question. At this point in time its 'probably' but there is no guarantee about these things.If producing excess and happen to have an EV, and a bidirectional charger to use it as an extra battery would that help? Not sure on additional cost of bi-direction over standard EV charger so just a thought- apologies if covered earlier in the thread as not read it in entirety.
Wonderman said:
Alternatively do you think having solar will make the house easier to sell/ add value if did move before 14 years?
If producing excess and happen to have an EV, and a bidirectional charger to use it as an extra battery would that help? Not sure on additional cost of bi-direction over standard EV charger so just a thought- apologies if covered earlier in the thread as not read it in entirety.
Not that I am looking to move, but if a house I was interested in had solar panels I would see it as a 'nice to have' rather than a 'must have'. Am not sure how other people view it these days but I don't think the cost of the install would inflate the cost of the house by the same amount for example.If producing excess and happen to have an EV, and a bidirectional charger to use it as an extra battery would that help? Not sure on additional cost of bi-direction over standard EV charger so just a thought- apologies if covered earlier in the thread as not read it in entirety.
I don't have an EV yet but the next car may well be, although thats probably several years away at the moment.
KTF said:
Another 'is this a good price' post if I may
My annual electric consumption is 2154kW. Currently on Octopus Agile.
I was also working on the basis that you need a battery to get the best out of the system so you store up energy during the day (or charge it up cheaply overnight) then use the stored energy in the evenings, etc. With no battery you are either using the grid when there is no sunshine or producing excess energy that cant be stored which doesnt seem the best use out of the system.
With the above in mind I have received the following quote.
JAM54S31 AB Half-Cell 3.16kW of Solar Power
8 x JAM54S31-395/MR 395 Watt panels
12 Year Product Warranty & 25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
2,363kWh per year
Hybrid Inverter GivEnergy
3.6 kW of Total Inverter Power
1 x GIV-HY3.6
Warranty coverage of up to 5 years extendable to 10 years
The way I interpret this is that the solar panels covers my current annual consumption with a bit of headroom and the inverter also has a bit of headroom to cover the output of the panels.
This is quoted at £8143 installed (scaffolding, anti-bird mesh, etc). Claimed £6006 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
There is then the option to add a 5.3kWh battery:
1 x GIV-Bat5.2
5.2kWh of Storage
10 Year Performance Warranty
Total with battery is £10,133 installed. Claimed £9254 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
At the current rates on the capped energy price my annual consumption of 2154 will cost £893.43 a year (energy of £737.31 plus standing charge of £156.11.
As I would still have to pay the standing charge it would be £737.31 x 14 to cover the cost of the battery install so I am looking at a 14 year roi.
The first question is, do you think this is a good price for what I have been quoted and secondly, is it actually worth it given the 14 years roi?
The answer to the first is more out of interest as I think they answer to the second has already made me think its not worth it. Obviously this does not factor in the cost of elecricity going up more which will reduce the roi.
Thanks for reading and am pleased that I actually got someone to give me a quote
An alternative to anti bird My annual electric consumption is 2154kW. Currently on Octopus Agile.
I was also working on the basis that you need a battery to get the best out of the system so you store up energy during the day (or charge it up cheaply overnight) then use the stored energy in the evenings, etc. With no battery you are either using the grid when there is no sunshine or producing excess energy that cant be stored which doesnt seem the best use out of the system.
With the above in mind I have received the following quote.
JAM54S31 AB Half-Cell 3.16kW of Solar Power
8 x JAM54S31-395/MR 395 Watt panels
12 Year Product Warranty & 25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
2,363kWh per year
Hybrid Inverter GivEnergy
3.6 kW of Total Inverter Power
1 x GIV-HY3.6
Warranty coverage of up to 5 years extendable to 10 years
The way I interpret this is that the solar panels covers my current annual consumption with a bit of headroom and the inverter also has a bit of headroom to cover the output of the panels.
This is quoted at £8143 installed (scaffolding, anti-bird mesh, etc). Claimed £6006 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
There is then the option to add a 5.3kWh battery:
1 x GIV-Bat5.2
5.2kWh of Storage
10 Year Performance Warranty
Total with battery is £10,133 installed. Claimed £9254 electricity bill savings, 3.16kW system size.
At the current rates on the capped energy price my annual consumption of 2154 will cost £893.43 a year (energy of £737.31 plus standing charge of £156.11.
As I would still have to pay the standing charge it would be £737.31 x 14 to cover the cost of the battery install so I am looking at a 14 year roi.
The first question is, do you think this is a good price for what I have been quoted and secondly, is it actually worth it given the 14 years roi?
The answer to the first is more out of interest as I think they answer to the second has already made me think its not worth it. Obviously this does not factor in the cost of elecricity going up more which will reduce the roi.
Thanks for reading and am pleased that I actually got someone to give me a quote
mesh
https://solaskirt.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs7qQ7-H...
KTF said:
Jambo85 said:
Your maths which assume zero consumption from the grid are therefore miles off I'd suggest.
Ok so taking this into account, the roi for an install with or without a battery it then pushed even further into the future making it even more uneconomic a proposition?Some rough numbers, 3.6kW array E/W facing, has produced >7600 kWh in just under 3 yrs and has put 3340 kWh into the hot water tank in that time. That’s >300L of kerosene not burned all else being equal. Apparently Octopus will pay £0.15/kWh for export now so I’d possibly have been better off just doing that! Hard to quantify the dishwasher saving however.
KTF said:
... stuff...
I've posted this sort of comment before - it's not ROI but break-even that you're calculating. 14 years or more to get your money back out - makes little to sense financial sense, at least to me. And expect to replace an inverter in that time and to see battery degradation as well.And without a battery a decent rule of thumb is that the panels will reduce your import by 30-40%. Not by 100%.
Ok, so as I thought, the numbers do not make it worthwhile.
I dont know if install prices are higher than a few years ago (I suspect they are) due to the current demand moment but how is it a viable option from a financial point of view to fit solar, battery, etc. unless I am missing something?
I dont know if install prices are higher than a few years ago (I suspect they are) due to the current demand moment but how is it a viable option from a financial point of view to fit solar, battery, etc. unless I am missing something?
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff