Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64706726
NMNeil said:
Simple, because electricity costs won't come down, they will only get more expensive.
Does anyone on here have a fairly standard size solar system and ASHP?
We are a full electric house, all new, very well insulated, largeish house. The ASHP has been in since new, and on a separate meter, just under two years in and it has used 8,300kw so about 4,200kw per annum.
We also use slightly more on the rest of the house. So I would say our demand in total, including ASHP is 10,000kw per annum.
Obviously we use a lot more in winter.
Looking at our usage, October to February uses around 6,000kw including ASHP. So these 5 months use 60% of our demand.
We have a perfectly South facing roof, but with news that prices are going to drop for energy bills, I cannot work out if it is worth the install cost which are still very high.
We are a full electric house, all new, very well insulated, largeish house. The ASHP has been in since new, and on a separate meter, just under two years in and it has used 8,300kw so about 4,200kw per annum.
We also use slightly more on the rest of the house. So I would say our demand in total, including ASHP is 10,000kw per annum.
Obviously we use a lot more in winter.
Looking at our usage, October to February uses around 6,000kw including ASHP. So these 5 months use 60% of our demand.
We have a perfectly South facing roof, but with news that prices are going to drop for energy bills, I cannot work out if it is worth the install cost which are still very high.
NMNeil said:
Simple, because electricity costs won't come down, they will only get more expensive.
Think about it; a utility company has 1 million customers each paying $xx.xx a month for electricity with all the associated fees, taxes and compulsory charities.
Now imagine if only 5% of those customers install solar systems and home batteries it means a big reduction in profits for the utility, yes it's offset by lower generating costs because they save on the cost of fuel to generate less power, but they still have to maintain the infrastructure. How will they make up for the financial loss of those 5%?, by raising prices of course, and then more people will get fed up with high power bills and invest in solar. Rinse and repeat.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/10/14/h...
I think it's true that consumers getting solar panels will generally not cut the capital overhead costs of the grid and retailers.Think about it; a utility company has 1 million customers each paying $xx.xx a month for electricity with all the associated fees, taxes and compulsory charities.
Now imagine if only 5% of those customers install solar systems and home batteries it means a big reduction in profits for the utility, yes it's offset by lower generating costs because they save on the cost of fuel to generate less power, but they still have to maintain the infrastructure. How will they make up for the financial loss of those 5%?, by raising prices of course, and then more people will get fed up with high power bills and invest in solar. Rinse and repeat.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/10/14/h...
But in the UK, very few people are in a position to denounce the grid entirely.
People who don't use much from the grid, but rely on it being there for them at any time, including peak times, offering them almost unlimited power as and when they want it, are going to have to pay for that service.
Either they are going to be paying a peak rate when the sun doesn't shine, or they will pay a lot in standing charges.
But these issues are some way down the line.
They are also seriously countered by anticipated increased demand and reliance for electricity, due to the majority adoption of electric cars and electric heat pumps.
I'm not sure how these long term trends affect the economics of solar panels today.
In general, at least in real terms, solar panels and the associated stuff are getting cheaper.
As volumes increase, I think they will keep getting cheaper.
At present, installation costs for panels are very high IMHO.
So I'm not rushing to invest, based on how the electricity market might look in 2030, 2040 or 2050.
Also the grid infrastructure costs must have been met when the average electricity bill was £400 or whatever?
So these costs are not huge in the scheme of things, unless very large numbers of people manage to slash their grid use to a small fraction, it's not going to ge a big deal?
Gas on the other hand, could have a serious contraction in its customer base.
The distribution network used to be a big slice of the costs when wholesale gas was cheaper than chips.
So if lots of people shift to ASHP, then big costs are indeed shared by smaller numbers of consumers.
I can see the gas network reaching a turning point and shrinking quite quickly.
Once the network costs tip the balance to make ASHP heating cheaper, people will abandon gas en masse.
It would be nice to think more efficient homes might play a part too.
Our house will never be efficient, but I hope solar will help counter that.
Anyway, after the "nudge", we're now scheduled to have a Gen 2 5.0 Inverter installed next month, along with 8kW of panels and a single 9.5 kWh battery.
I have been considering adding a 2nd 9.5kWh battery daisy chained into the setup, thinking:
1. It'll give me more capacity to charge during off peak periods
2. We have an above ground pool for the kids - this'll give us more reserve to warm the pool even when the sun has gone in, evening etc.
3. It'll give us more capacity to smooth the peaks and troughs between good vs bad days.
Is this worth doing, or will an extra battery still on a single inverter largely be a waste?
Anyway, after the "nudge", we're now scheduled to have a Gen 2 5.0 Inverter installed next month, along with 8kW of panels and a single 9.5 kWh battery.
I have been considering adding a 2nd 9.5kWh battery daisy chained into the setup, thinking:
1. It'll give me more capacity to charge during off peak periods
2. We have an above ground pool for the kids - this'll give us more reserve to warm the pool even when the sun has gone in, evening etc.
3. It'll give us more capacity to smooth the peaks and troughs between good vs bad days.
Is this worth doing, or will an extra battery still on a single inverter largely be a waste?
Waste in what way ?
What's the charging rate for the inverter (can it charge ~18kWh in the cheap timew slot) ?
How do you heat the pool ?
What's the charging rate for the inverter (can it charge ~18kWh in the cheap timew slot) ?
How do you heat the pool ?
Arnold Cunningham said:
Our house will never be efficient, but I hope solar will help counter that.
Anyway, after the "nudge", we're now scheduled to have a Gen 2 5.0 Inverter installed next month, along with 8kW of panels and a single 9.5 kWh battery.
I have been considering adding a 2nd 9.5kWh battery daisy chained into the setup, thinking:
1. It'll give me more capacity to charge during off peak periods
2. We have an above ground pool for the kids - this'll give us more reserve to warm the pool even when the sun has gone in, evening etc.
3. It'll give us more capacity to smooth the peaks and troughs between good vs bad days.
Is this worth doing, or will an extra battery still on a single inverter largely be a waste?
Anyway, after the "nudge", we're now scheduled to have a Gen 2 5.0 Inverter installed next month, along with 8kW of panels and a single 9.5 kWh battery.
I have been considering adding a 2nd 9.5kWh battery daisy chained into the setup, thinking:
1. It'll give me more capacity to charge during off peak periods
2. We have an above ground pool for the kids - this'll give us more reserve to warm the pool even when the sun has gone in, evening etc.
3. It'll give us more capacity to smooth the peaks and troughs between good vs bad days.
Is this worth doing, or will an extra battery still on a single inverter largely be a waste?
Pool runs off a heat pump, 16amps @240V
I wouldn't, quite, be able to charge the full 19kWh from flat in the full off peak periods. But, it would mean I pull in as much as possible during an off peak period, but still have capacity to charge more from solar during the day too if solar was producing more than we need.
I think I've persuaded myself to do it.
I wouldn't, quite, be able to charge the full 19kWh from flat in the full off peak periods. But, it would mean I pull in as much as possible during an off peak period, but still have capacity to charge more from solar during the day too if solar was producing more than we need.
I think I've persuaded myself to do it.
KTF said:
3.16 kW system. No battery
Energy used through the year = 2154kWh (my figures)
Energy created by panels = 2363kWh (Octopus quote figures)
£8143 installed
£8k is an expensive install. We had 3.9kW system (10 panels) installed last May for just over £4971.50Energy used through the year = 2154kWh (my figures)
Energy created by panels = 2363kWh (Octopus quote figures)
£8143 installed
Have you shopped around?
Arnold Cunningham said:
Our house will never be efficient, but I hope solar will help counter that.
Anyway, after the "nudge", we're now scheduled to have a Gen 2 5.0 Inverter installed next month, along with 8kW of panels and a single 9.5 kWh battery.
I have been considering adding a 2nd 9.5kWh battery daisy chained into the setup, thinking:
1. It'll give me more capacity to charge during off peak periods
2. We have an above ground pool for the kids - this'll give us more reserve to warm the pool even when the sun has gone in, evening etc.
3. It'll give us more capacity to smooth the peaks and troughs between good vs bad days.
Is this worth doing, or will an extra battery still on a single inverter largely be a waste?
If you don't mind me asking what ball park cost are you looking at for this. A friend of mine created a spec for our place and it was pretty much identical rating and battery as yours...The indicative cost in the software he used was c.£16k inc battery.Anyway, after the "nudge", we're now scheduled to have a Gen 2 5.0 Inverter installed next month, along with 8kW of panels and a single 9.5 kWh battery.
I have been considering adding a 2nd 9.5kWh battery daisy chained into the setup, thinking:
1. It'll give me more capacity to charge during off peak periods
2. We have an above ground pool for the kids - this'll give us more reserve to warm the pool even when the sun has gone in, evening etc.
3. It'll give us more capacity to smooth the peaks and troughs between good vs bad days.
Is this worth doing, or will an extra battery still on a single inverter largely be a waste?
Indeed 2 years ago that would have been ~3K!
Have you shopped around?
pingu393 said:
KTF said:
3.16 kW system. No battery
Energy used through the year = 2154kWh (my figures)
Energy created by panels = 2363kWh (Octopus quote figures)
£8143 installed
£8k is an expensive install. We had 3.9kW system (10 panels) installed last May for just over £4971.50Energy used through the year = 2154kWh (my figures)
Energy created by panels = 2363kWh (Octopus quote figures)
£8143 installed
Have you shopped around?
pingu393 said:
£8k is an expensive install. We had 3.9kW system (10 panels) installed last May for just over £4971.50
Have you shopped around?
Trying to. Even with a gun to their head I doubt an installer would give me a quote at the moment. Have you shopped around?
Plus some of the installs you see are terrible. It’s a minefield at the moment.
Uncle boshy said:
I'm about 100 miles south of you, so figures may be slightly better but here's some real world info from the last 6 months of a a 5kw system (14 panels)
gross production 2585Kw, of which I've used 52% and exported 1372
for me that means 38% self sufficiency, but that's varied from 69% in July down to 15% in Dec
not bothered with a battery
I'm on octopus agile outgoing, average price received has been £0.26 per kWh over the last 6 months, lowest month was 9p per kWh, highest was 37p per kWh.
I'd do the maths separately for battery and panels as you may find the payback time reduces by removing the battery from your calculations. For me adding a battery made the payback worse, but everyone's situation is different
Your in-house use of 52% is higher than I would have predicted. Can you share what the major electricity consumers are in your house?gross production 2585Kw, of which I've used 52% and exported 1372
for me that means 38% self sufficiency, but that's varied from 69% in July down to 15% in Dec
not bothered with a battery
I'm on octopus agile outgoing, average price received has been £0.26 per kWh over the last 6 months, lowest month was 9p per kWh, highest was 37p per kWh.
I'd do the maths separately for battery and panels as you may find the payback time reduces by removing the battery from your calculations. For me adding a battery made the payback worse, but everyone's situation is different
C70R said:
Does anyone have any recommendations for companies to get quotes from? I'm in rural North Norfolk, and having tried my energy supplier (Octopus), it seems they don't cover my area.
Is it wise to contact a local specialist, or get a national company to come and quote? Or both?
This place was recommended on another ph thread. Is it wise to contact a local specialist, or get a national company to come and quote? Or both?
https://impact-services.co.uk/
They are Norwich I think ??
Jambo85 said:
Your gross production seems quite low, over three years I have averaged over 2600 kWh per year with a 3.6kWp system which is split east/west. North of Aberdeen.
good spot and completely right - I'd only quoted the 6 months since July since I had them.if you double that (assuming 2nd 6 months are broadly the same) gross production would be circa 5200 kWh
might make the payback work better for someone
Jurgen100 said:
Our installation has just gone live this afternoon. 17 panels on a virtually south facing roof in Hampshire. 10kwh battery and an Eddi as well. I’ll share some real world stats once I have any.
Snap!We went live with 20 panels (7.9kWp) 2x5.2kWh batteries and and Eddi and a Zappi on Sunday.
Watching the electrons flow on the app has (temporarily) replaced Netflix as family entertainment.
Which inverter and panels did you go for? We have a GivEnergi (ugh!) 5000w hybrid and Vertex s 395w panels.
It’s great stuff even in cloudy February and I’m trying to work out all the various software schedules to sync everything, nearly done I think.
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